Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: We Hayes Dubas's offseason moves so far

[Dipsy Doodle]

I think you are taking Jake’s public saving of face way more seriously than it was.

A quote from the man himself is more than the other side of the argument is offering up - which is pure conjecture.

But Dubas' statements and actions since hardly contradict it either. The man wants 2nd round picks and does not want to sign UFAs to long-term, big money deals.

What about the Penguins offseason makes you think they would prioritize re-signing Guentzel?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

You yourself are partaking 100% in "complete conjecture" by stating that Pittsburgh was Jake's "desired location." Money was Jake's desired location. Players say things all the time... GMs say things all the time... coaches and agent say things all the time. They are all trained liars.

I'm not sure where we are getting wires crossed here or why. It's all totally pointless, now. You can have things your way... Jake Guentzel totally wanted to be a Pittsburgh Penguin for life and falls asleep every night with a wistful sigh wishing things could go back to the way they were... if only he wasn't forced to take that Brinks truck backed up to his front door.

You guys have a fun weekend, regardless.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You yourself are partaking 100% in "complete conjecture" by stating that Pittsburgh was Jake's "desired location." Money was Jake's desired location. Players say things all the time... GMs say things all the time... coaches and agent say things all the time. They are all trained liars.

I'm not sure where we are getting wires crossed here or why. It's all totally pointless, now. You can have things your way... Jake Guentzel totally wanted to be a Pittsburgh Penguin for life and falls asleep every night with a wistful sigh wishing things could go back to the way they were... if only he wasn't forced to take that Brinks truck backed up to his front door.

You guys have a fun weekend, regardless.

And Dubas totally wanted Guentzel to sign a pricey, long-term deal because that's totally been his m.o. this summer, it was just that Guentzel wanted money more than anything, which is supported by...stuff.

Is it so hard to believe the stated story - that Guentzel wanted a market value deal to stay in Pittsburgh but the Pens wanted a soft rebuild without that commitment?

 

[eXile3]

Why didn't he negotiate in season?

Once again, that was Dubas, not Jake. “That’s on me.” Is what he said at the press conference. The Jake not wanting negotiate during the season has never actually been attributed to Jake. I don’t know why everyone blindly believes it.

 

[Tom Hanks]

He had a big payday coming, leaving a declining team and would have a choice of a few desirable places to live with teams that will make playoffs. No shit he moved on.

In his interview, Jake was pretty pumped about the Tampa lifestyle for him and his family.
December average temp in Tampa is 75f/24c

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

If Jake wanted to be here, he'd still be here imo. He -wanted- to chase a colossal deal because he's been underpaid for years and this is his final shot at getting a huge contract. No idea why anybody wanted him to stick around and let the status quo continue. Let go.

 

[Ryder71]

Jake left a sinking shift, no one should blame him. Kyle instead of losing him for nothing (like CAR) got useful assets back, no one should blame him either. Win-Win.

He had a big payday coming, leaving a declining team and would have a choice of a few desirable places to live with teams that will make playoffs. No shit he moved on.

In his interview, Jake was pretty pumped about the Tampa lifestyle for him and his family.
December average temp in Tampa is 75f/24c

No state tax doesn't hurt either.

 

[Al Smith]

Jake left a sinking shift, no one should blame him. Kyle instead of losing him for nothing (like CAR) got useful assets back, no one should blame him either. Win-Win.


No state tax doesn't hurt either.

There's no state income tax in Florida. There are other taxes in Florida, but still less of an overall tax burden than Pa. (by 2.31%) according to this study. So an additional $208k on a $9 million salary. Not sure how much that weighed into the mix.

How the 50 States Rank By Tax Burden

Residents of New York state are burdened by taxes the most, while Alaska residents have the lowest tax burden, a WalletHub study found.

www.cpapracticeadvisor.com

 

[Empoleon8771]

Did people just ignore what happened with Guentzel negotiating with Carolina, or are we going to pretend that didn't happen? Where the Canes actually met his ask, and then he said "I want to go to UFA regardless"? And then he signed a $9 million a year deal with a state income tax free team, where $54 million of that was signing bonuses that are exempt from state taxes?

It is so painfully obvious that Guentzel was purely chasing money that I fundamentally have no clue how you can begin to argue otherwise. If it wasn't just about money, he would have re-signed with the Canes.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Did people just ignore what happened with Guentzel negotiating with Carolina, or are we going to pretend that didn't happen? Where the Canes actually met his ask, and then he said "I want to go to UFA regardless"? And then he signed a $9 million a year deal with a state income tax free team, where $54 million of that was signing bonuses that are exempt from state taxes?

It is so painfully obvious that Guentzel was purely chasing money that I fundamentally have no clue how you can begin to argue otherwise.

He wanted to stay here!?! We threw him away!!!! *IM COPING*

Basically.

 

[Gurglesons]

A quote from the man himself is more than the other side of the argument is offering up - which is pure conjecture.

But Dubas' statements and actions since hardly contradict it either. The man wants 2nd round picks and does not want to sign UFAs to long-term, big money deals.

What about the Penguins offseason makes you think they would prioritize re-signing Guentzel?

If he wanted to stay he’d be here.

He wanted to be paid. He deserved to get paid. And he chose a market and a contract where he got paid to the extreme.

Not sure why we have to make the narrative anything else.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Cap Wages has better UI than Puck Pedia. No features yet.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1811056398786077155

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If he wanted to stay he’d be here.

He wanted to be paid. He deserved to get paid. And he chose a market and a contract where he got paid to the extreme.

Not sure why we have to make the narrative anything else.

Apart from the obvious problem with suggesting someone doesn't want to stay with an organization unless they agree to take millions less per year than they'd make elsewhere, Dubas has done nothing since the trade to suggest he wants to sign UFAs to anything other than short term, low money deals. Placeholders for a retool.

So there's nothing to support that argument.

The Pens simply didn't and don't want any more expensive commitments on their roster. If they did, they'd have prioritized a Guentzel replacement. Instead we have a failed 2 year offer to Tank and DOC as the de facto 1st line LW.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Once again, that was Dubas, not Jake. “That’s on me.” Is what he said at the press conference. The Jake not wanting negotiate during the season has never actually been attributed to Jake. I don’t know why everyone blindly believes it.

What, are you going to believe the player himself and the GM who traded him?

 

[BusinessGoose]

What, are you going to believe the player himself and the GM who traded him?

None of em. Actions speak louder that words. They're all businessmen.

 

[Turin]

None of em. Actions speak louder that words. They're all businessmen.

This.

Every thing spoken about negotiations publically is posturing. This is common sense. What people do is what they mean and believe.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I was tired of the GCR show and enjoy Sid figuring out how to use O'Connor and O'Connor growing into the role.

That Bunting ended up being a useful player and giving a jolt to Malkin is a bonus.

Though Guentzel is much better than Bunting in a vacuum, he is a dreadful PP player and if the PP is to turn around next year we are in a better position with Bunting than with Guentzel. I'm lukewarm on the rest of the return but curious to see Koivunen.

 

[Ryder71]

Cap Wages has better UI than Puck Pedia. No features yet.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1811056398786077155

That's fantastic! Saved it to my home page!

 

[Kasperi kapanen]

The f*** happened to this site today?

 

[BusinessGoose]

The f*** happened to this site today?

As opposed to any other day?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Here's how it probably went down, imo:

- Jake wanted a king's ransom to stick around on a sinking ship last summer.
- Dubas didn't want to lock into a 7-8 year deal with a 30 year old with injury history.
- Dubas offered a lower term/cap hit last summer.
- Jake and his camp took offense and got pissed, locked into going to FA--whether here or elsewhere.
- Season goes as it does, Jake's obviously moved instead of letting him walk for nothing.
- Jake still refuses to talk an extension in Carolina despite saying he loves it and their coaching.
- Jake makes his demands known after the season to the Canes.
- Carolina goes back and forth, eventually accepts his terms.
- Jake turns them down anyway.
- Canes deal his rights to Tampa.
- Huge contract, living like a millionaire in Florida, tax relief, signing bonus-heavy, etc.

I don't really fault anyone, though I do wish Dubas would've tried to get fewer pieces, but higher quality ones. In the end it doesn't really matter much. Jake's gone, and he's a dork.

 

[Gurglesons]

The f*** happened to this site today?

Penguins hire Dubas as president of hockey operations | NHL.com

'Going to bet on' Pittsburgh making Cup run after replacing Burke, who was fired April 14

www.nhl.com

 

[HandshakeLine]

If Jake wanted to be here, he'd still be here imo. He -wanted- to chase a colossal deal because he's been underpaid for years and this is his final shot at getting a huge contract. No idea why anybody wanted him to stick around and let the status quo continue. Let go.

Exactly. It's not like Tampa Bay tied him to a radiator and made him sign that offer.

 

[HandshakeLine]

This.

Every thing spoken about negotiations publically is posturing. This is common sense. What people do is what they mean and believe.

This quote should not be controversial, and yet...

 

[AuroraBorealis]

To reiterate, trading Petts at his peak makes infinitely more sense than waiting until Crosby retires, especially if you get some decent 1st + ___ offers going on.

It's not just the return for him, but also everything you can do with the 30+ million you otherwise would have wasted on him.
You can funnel all of it towards futures.