Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: We Hayes Dubas's offseason moves so far

[The Old Master]

I can only think of two ways that this plan blows up in his face:

1) Sid gets pissed and asks out. On paper that might not be a bad thing since the Pens would rebuild as a result, but FSG might get mad enough about that to fire Dubas since Sid sells tickets.

2) Dubas/Sully/Pens miss on most of the draft picks they're accumulating and the post Sid era doesn't get a noticeable boost from the partial rebuild they tried to do.

sid could just leave as a free agent. and we get nothing for him.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Why would we blame Sid at all for taking a long think over his decision?

Right now he's lined up to start the year at 38 years old with DOC and Rust as his linemates on a team that seems to be actively renting itself out to the rest of the league as a garbage bin. Anyone with an ounce of sense would look at this team's situation and weigh their options carefully. Especially if that someone is a hockey legend that still has some game left in the tank and might want to actually do something with the time he has left in this league.

People are aging Sid faster than normal. Sid is currently 36. He will be 37.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

People are aging Sid faster than normal. Sid is currently 36. He will be 37.

Fair enough. He'll be old... how about that?

 

[Trade]

I have a conspiracy that Sid’s request to keep the contract negotiations private was his form of a Litmus Test based on loyalty.

Now that there are potential leaked $ amounts, someone likely failed the test (only if the numbers are semi-accurate).

Goodbye, Sidney. It’s been nice.
Hope you find your paradise.

 

[Andy99]

Getting younger.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1811449037008027807

 

[Pancakes]

San Jose absolutely went about the rebuild the same way the Penguins have so far.

San Jose's first selling moves were when they sold at the 2019 deadline with sending out Marleau. They didn't trade Karlsson until 2023.

But during that period from 2019-2023 they really didn't have a ton of old star players on their roster. Thornton was gone by then and Marleau was a shadow of his former self.

The Pens' rebuild is weird in that Crosby is still really good and even Malkin for all his decline is much better than a declined Marleau or Jumbo were.

It's a weird thing we're doing here. Not even against it, it's just hard to find a super close precedent for it. But then I guess it would be hard to since there aren't many Sid's historically.

 

[HandshakeLine]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1811449037008027807

yOoF mOvMaNT

Also f*** Marleau, forever. I hated him there and I hated him here.

 

[ChaosAgent]

But during that period from 2019-2023 they really didn't have a ton of old star players on their roster. Thornton was gone by then and Marleau was a shadow of his former self.

The Pens' rebuild is weird in that Crosby is still really good and even Malkin for all his decline is much better than a declined Marleau or Jumbo were.

It's a weird thing we're doing here. Not even against it, it's just hard to find a super close precedent for it. But then I guess it would be hard to since there aren't many Sid's historically.

The bottom nearly fell out on the team last year and easily could again.

Karlsson will be traded in the next year, and Malkin/Letang are just a 2C and 2RD. You can make a plenty terrible team even with a good 2C and 2RD.

I also don't think the door is closed on the team contending in 2025. If the team is in a playoff spot at the deadline, I think they add to give the core 1 last shot at the postseason. If they aren't, then Petts/EK65/Rust get moved. I don't think it's all that befuddling or head scratching. Whether Dubas is actually good at his job is very TBD but the team's direction is clear.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The direction is clear to everyone but the team.

 

[Gurglesons]

The bottom nearly fell out on the team last year and easily could again.

Karlsson will be traded in the next year, and Malkin/Letang are just a 2C and 2RD. You can make a plenty terrible team even with a good 2C and 2RD.

I also don't think the door is closed on the team contending in 2025. If the team is in a playoff spot at the deadline, I think they add to give the core 1 last shot at the postseason. If they aren't, then Petts/EK65/Rust get moved. I don't think it's all that befuddling or head scratching. Whether Dubas is actually good at his job is very TBD but the team's direction is clear.

So the direction is to rebuild but if they are in the playoffs give it one last shot?

How is that clear? Or any different from what Hextall did here?

 

[DearDiary]

Draisaitl is likely off the board, he liked an instagram comment about signing a big extension

 

[EXTRAS]

I wonder if there is any chance yager makes the team.

 

[ChaosAgent]

The direction is clear to everyone but the team.

How about they win games and earn buying? We won in July last year and the team and coach shit the bed. Including the core and Karlsson's absolute power play incompetence. Would prefer to see if those issues are rectified before throwing assets (again) to give some olds another run.

So the direction is to rebuild but if they are in the playoffs give it one last shot?

How is that clear? Or any different from what Hextall did here?

I don't hate Hextall aside from the Granlund move, the Petry/Matheson move and the Pickering.

I am not someone who beats it to how bad Hextall was.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I wonder if there is any chance yager makes the team.

I wonder if there’s any chance Yager signs his ELC

How about they win games and earn buying? We won in July last year and the team and coach shit the bed. Including the core and Karlsson's absolute power play incompetence. Would prefer to see if those issues are rectified before throwing assets (again) to give some olds another run.



I don't hate Hextall aside from the Granlund move, the Petry/Matheson move and the Pickering.

I am not someone who beats it to how bad Hextall was.

I just don’t see these moves as being clear about anything. It’s a lot of hoping that some big gambles are working out, but despite getting a 2nd for 3 years from now, not a lot being done to restock and hedge our bets.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Draisaitl is likely off the board, he liked an instagram comment about signing a big extension

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but he was never even close to the board in the first place.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think the moves the team's made over the past 6 months have been a clear indication that regardless of the mediaspeak slop they churn out every presser, they're throwing in the towel. They can't nuke the team cuz Sid's still here and he's gonna be until he gets his final Olympics, so they're just kind of twiddling their thumbs until he's done holding the team hostage and retires. Yeah, Sid's still good, but he's also a big reason Sullivan's job is chiseled in stone and the team seems unwavering on shit like asking Rust to waive to trade him, going out and getting EK, and if/when it happens, re-signing Petts.

But taking on bad players for sweeteners and signing warm bodies to play on dirt cheap one or two year deals is what teams that are no longer trying to contend do. /shrug

I wish they'd just go scorched earth, but they're simply too cowardly or too stupid to do so. Oh well, only option is to wait impatiently for Sid to retire and hope Sullivan's ego doesn't allow him to stick around on a purely rebuilding team.

 

[HandshakeLine]

we have taken on exactly one contract for a pick.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I wonder if there’s any chance Yager signs his ELC


I just don’t see these moves as being clear about anything. It’s a lot of hoping that some big gambles are working out, but despite getting a 2nd for 3 years from now, not a lot being done to restock and hedge our bets.

The clear direction is what @Big Friggin Dummy said below. They will no longer move assets out but they still want to keep Sid here.

When the team re-signed the guys 2 years ago it was always going to end with a slow whimper. The issue is due to the coaches and players we have nothing to show for it in 22-23 and 23-24. Not even a single playoff game.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

we have taken on exactly one contract for a pick.

And stayed roughly the same age.

Like I know it's "early" on, yet and perhaps Sid signing will lead to more dominoes falling but I have to admit I'm a little confused as to what everyone is on about when it comes to this exciting new direction or whatever. Knowing this team and how it's run things the last few years they genuinely think Hayes is terrific and holy shit what a deal... free pick for a dude we loved to begin with? Bonus!

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Also in my personal estimation not spending any assets any longer in an effort to improve the roster all while a failure of a coach is still confidently sitting behind the bench isn't "rebuilding." It's called "giving up."

 

[DesertPenguin]

I wonder if there is any chance yager makes the team.

Maybe they give him a 9 game, but I doubt it. Kid needs to get bigger. One more year in junior and then battles for a spot out of camp.

Pickering could be up by mid season. Ditto Koivunen. Poulin and Ponomarev are threats out of camp.

 

[HandshakeLine]

So let me get this straight: so far our big rebuilding moves were trading a depth guy for a 2027 4th, a guy who said he wasn’t going to re-sign here for some B+ prospects and a roster player, and we got a 2027 2nd for taking on a slightly better but still bad and expensive 4C. Totally cool. But what about this is screaming “rebuild” to yinz?

I’m not seeing this big pattern here, I must admit.

 

[Gurglesons]

So let me get this straight: so far our big rebuilding moves were trading a depth guy for a 2027 4th, a guy who said he wasn’t going to re-sign here for some B+ prospects and a roster player, and we got a 2027 2nd for taking on a slightly better but still bad and expensive 4C. Totally cool. But what about this is screaming “rebuild” to yinz?

I’m not seeing this big pattern here, I must admit.

We got a 2nd and a 5th for retaining on Reilly Smith!

Just ignore the 2nd isn’t until 2027.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I know we've only taken on one bad player for a pick because everyone's been bitching about Hayes and how worthless 2nd round picks are for a week.

It's pretty clear that the team's operating differently than they have since Sid was drafted pretty much. They didn't sign anyone to any notable money or term on July 1st. They haven't tried to add anyone with notable money/term to move the win now needle. They've taken on a bad player for a sweetener and are rumored to be interested in Hall, which would probably be another Hayes-esque move I'd think.

I don't have any problem with the picks being down the road either. Might even be better that way--this team's gonna be real bad for a real long time. For any pick outside of the top-5, I think the better avenue is to just amass quantity. /shrug

 

[Gurglesons]

I know we've only taken on one bad player for a pick because everyone's been bitching about Hayes and how worthless 2nd round picks are for a week.

It's pretty clear that the team's operating differently than they have since Sid was drafted pretty much. They didn't sign anyone to any notable money or term on July 1st. They haven't tried to add anyone with notable money/term to move the win now needle. They've taken on a bad player for a sweetener and are rumored to be interested in Hall, which would probably be another Hayes-esque move I'd think.

I don't have any problem with the picks being down the road either. Might even be better that way--this team's gonna be real bad for a real long time. For any pick outside of the top-5, I think the better avenue is to just amass quantity. /shrug

As @BlindWillyMcHurt said then don’t pretend it’s a rebuild. It’s Dubas admitting he’s giving up on this season because he won’t make any real changes.