Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: Dull days of August... Oooo! A trade!

[AuroraBorealis]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1834768994059890866

God Rossi is such a putz. He throws something super cryptic and doesn’t specify leaving people to wonder. Tried to find out what he’s talking about and couldn’t find anything besides what someone posted on his replies which I didn’t find anything more than boring Sid speak.

He's angry. He's always been angry and insecure. Some childhood trauma or resentment or something.
So instead of resolving his issues like a man, he projects his rage onto people through his passive-aggressive "journalism".

He's gotten slightly less obvious about it as he got older, but his frailty is still clear as day.

 

[Pancakes]

Also as far as the powerplay goes I'm not sure that can ever truly be fixed the way people want it to be. It can certainly be better, but I don't think it will ever be elite again.

The powerplay is a young man's game. You need explosive skating these days to be able to threaten the net and create lanes on the powerplay. We have nobody who can skate the puck off the wall to aggressively attack the net any more. Our powerplay is extremely station-to-station because of the age of our players and other teams know it and defend accordingly.

You can get away with a station-to-station/old powerplay if you have elite shooters who can bomb in one-timers from range but we simply don't have that.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

If anything, Dubas is to be commended for realizing this early enough to move on at the deadline.

I think it's funny blokes here are playing Jake up to be some poor victim in all of this when that's the furthest from the truth.

Like this entire interview it is obvious he saw his time in Pittsburgh coming to an end and he was excited to the opportunity of playing elsehwere and then chose Tampa after as well. I maintain there was never any intention on him staying and Dubas knew, but what Jake's camp did was just typical PR of "please don't hate me" type of bs.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1834768994059890866

God Rossi is such a putz. He throws something super cryptic and doesn’t specify leaving people to wonder. Tried to find out what he’s talking about and couldn’t find anything besides what someone posted on his replies which I didn’t find anything more than boring Sid speak.

Blob Rossi thinks himself to be a clever when really he's just a daft that thinks he's got anything of importance to stay, same for Yohe.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

It's also a fact that a worse shooting team, with a 35 year old goalie who fared worse than Jarry going into last season, won the Cup. It can happen.

Yes, you can always compensate for any weakness if you boost the other areas sufficiently. You have to have the pieces to do that though.
All making the playoffs entails is just creating enough of a net positive from all the respective areas combined. There's many avenues you can take to accomplish this.

The Pens problem is that the only area they have a realistic shot at excelling at is the PK. That's why this isn't a good season to invest time and resources into chasing playoff success.
Repairing this to the point where they can contend would require more time than they have left with this core.
But FSG have chosen to ignore this reality, so here we are.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think it's funny blokes here are playing Jake up to be some poor victim in all of this when that's the furthest from the truth.

Like this entire interview it is obvious he saw his time in Pittsburgh coming to an end and he was excited to the opportunity of playing elsehwere and then chose Tampa after as well. I maintain there was never any intention on him staying and Dubas knew, but what Jake's camp did was just typical PR of "please don't hate me" type of bs.




Blob Rossi thinks himself to be a clever when really he's just a daft that thinks he's got anything of importance to stay, same for Yohe.

Guentzel's intentions were super obvious from how the Carolina situation went down. They met his ask and he still said "nah, I'm going to go to free agency anyway". Then he signed a deal with Tampa Bay with $53 million in signing bonuses that are not subject to state income taxes due to Florida having no state income taxes.

The dude was chasing money. It was painfully obvious because he had already won a cup and was criminally underpaid on his last deal, so he was taking this chance to lock down his dumptruck of money. And he absolutely did that.

 

[Pancakes]

I think it's funny blokes here are playing Jake up to be some poor victim in all of this when that's the furthest from the truth.

Like this entire interview it is obvious he saw his time in Pittsburgh coming to an end and he was excited to the opportunity of playing elsehwere and then chose Tampa after as well. I maintain there was never any intention on him staying and Dubas knew, but what Jake's camp did was just typical PR of "please don't hate me" type of bs.

I do wonder if the Pens were a likely playoff team last year if they would have tried to aggressively re-sign him but I suppose we'll never know. The Pens being as bad as they were certainly made it an easy decision to trade him.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Yes, you can always compensate for any weakness if you boost the other areas sufficiently. You have to have the pieces to do that though.
All making the playoffs entails is just creating enough of a net positive from all the respective areas combined. There's many avenues you can take to accomplish this.

The Pens problem is that the only area they have a realistic shot at excelling at is the PK. That's why this isn't a good season to invest time and resources into chasing playoff success.
Repairing this to the point where they can contend would require more time than they have left with this core.
But FSG have chosen to ignore this reality, so here we are.

Except if you based your expectations on hot goalies and shooting percentages, then the Pens have as good a shot as the Panthers had last year.

I'm also not seeing where the Pens are expending time and resources into a playoff chase.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If you wanted to hyper analyze Sid's comments you could see that he talked about how the GM needs to do whats best for him and he (Sid) needs to do whats best for himself. And Sid also talked about how he knew they were doing a bit of a rebuild and that sometimes those can go fast but that "as a player you always want to win".

Those two comments could certainly be taken to mean that Sid still wants to win and that he recognizes that the Pens aren't currently the best place to do that.

That might make one think he wants out except that he was also pretty adamant about the fact that he thinks the extension will still get done sooo sounds like Rossi is just blowing smoke out of his ass to me. Unless Rossi is meaning to imply that Sid is going to sign something short term because of the direction the Pens are heading *shrug*.

As usual with Rossi he puts out some vague bullshit so that if (when) he's wrong he won't look as bad, but if he is somehow right he gets to say "aha".

As much as it sucks to think about, I think a 1 year deal for Crosby with the Penguins trading him to chase for one last cup in 2026 makes the most sense for both sides. Malkin's deal also ends in 2026 and he's assuredly retiring from the NHL at that point. There's also the aspect of Crosby and Malkin being able to play in the 2026 Olympics as Penguins (which I bet is a big deal for both). My only question is whether Crosby would want to retire at 38, I think he could play for an addition 2-3 years if he wanted.

While I want Crosby and Malkin to be Penguins lifers, I also don't think them playing 20 games and a playoff run with a new team would really taint anything. Ray Bourque played that and another season with the Avs but everyone thinks of him as a Bruin.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I'm also not seeing where the Pens are expending time and resources into a playoff chase.

Through their inactions and the resulting hindered growth of the prospect pool.
So they will need to spend more time (seasons) later to compensate for the emotional indulgences they took from 2022-27(?)

Anyways, I already explained this in detail before.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I do wonder if the Pens were a likely playoff team last year if they would have tried to aggressively re-sign him but I suppose we'll never know. The Pens being as bad as they were certainly made it an easy decision to trade him.

They missed the playoffs the year before with Jake and were already out of it again with Jake when he got hurt and the team wasn't playing well already. So it didn't matter. They missed with Jake, were about to miss after Jake got hurt and would have likely missed anyway imo.

They were 5-6-0-1 after Jake, which had them placed outside of the playoffs and they were 28-25-0-8 overall up to that point on March 8th when they traded Jake to the Canes. They were never realistically going to make it outside of whatever hype bullshit the Pens media had anyone believe. They finished the last 21 games at 10-7-0-4 while scoring 3.62 goals per game and allowing a staggering 3.57 goals per game (27th in the league) because you know Ned was Vezina caliber or something (Penguins were 8th for Goals against per game on March 8th, after March 8th, they went from 8th best to 27th lol but yeah...narratives gonna narrative). The team was a joke from start to finish and I am sure Jake's camp saw that a few months in and already knew they were going to test the market.

I wouldn't even be shocked if his injury was fine and he was probably set to come back sooner but they held him out to heal so they could move him and not get re-injured before the TDL, because he missed at most 2 games for the Canes before he joined them. The Pens had Sid & Geno play all 82 games 2yrs in a row, Jake was there and it didn't matter because piss poor coaching and a piss poor coaching system will trump talent.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I do wonder if the Pens were a likely playoff team last year if they would have tried to aggressively re-sign him but I suppose we'll never know. The Pens being as bad as they were certainly made it an easy decision to trade him.

That would have only bought them 2 weeks. It's actually better for the team when they miss cuz it intensifies the focus on improving the farm.
Plus it might result in them slashing a year off the pretender era, when they see clear failure over and over.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Also as far as the powerplay goes I'm not sure that can ever truly be fixed the way people want it to be. It can certainly be better, but I don't think it will ever be elite again.

The powerplay is a young man's game. You need explosive skating these days to be able to threaten the net and create lanes on the powerplay. We have nobody who can skate the puck off the wall to aggressively attack the net any more. Our powerplay is extremely station-to-station because of the age of our players and other teams know it and defend accordingly.

You can get away with a station-to-station/old powerplay if you have elite shooters who can bomb in one-timers from range but we simply don't have that.

I don't think it's a young man's game at all mate. Tampa is one of the oldest teams in the league right there with the Penguins and have a top powerplay, it's got nothing to do with age. It's the personnel this coaching staff wants on the powerplay that's always been the issue. It's been less about what will help the team score and more about "who do we owe loyalty to first that we should put on this squad."

Wiseman and Oliver being the reasons Quinn gets any clout as a coach that had ok powerplay's is even more comical IMO, because they are relying on a bloke that hasn't coached a powerplay at the NHL level and yet is tasked with doing just that while being someone that was about as bad as Sullivan in terms of similar issues with their coaching strategies and style.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

That would have only bought them 2 weeks. It's actually better for the team when they miss cuz it intensifies the focus on improving the farm.
Plus it might result in them slashing a year off the pretender era, when they see clear failure over and over.

2 weeks if all things aligned for them - Like every team they were chasing suddenly losing almost all of their games in the last 21 games, which would be unheard of.

Penguins basically gave up defensively, got piss poor goaltending and started to score a lot of goals at a rate they have never sustained for even that long at any point during the season to close it out. That was more or less Sullivan just showing "yeah whatever, go do what you want" and some have convinced themselves that it meant the team had some amazing play left in them under his guidance. It also makes it less of a probability knowing the Penguins weren't missing for the first time since 2006-07, they were missing back 2 back.

 

[eXile3]

I think this will be Crosby’s 19th season as captain? Only Yzerman has done that with one team. I remember Sid saying he admired Stevie Y but I could be wrong.

Either way he’s going to end up the longest tenured captain of one team.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Guentzel's intentions were super obvious from how the Carolina situation went down. They met his ask and he still said "nah, I'm going to go to free agency anyway". Then he signed a deal with Tampa Bay with $53 million in signing bonuses that are not subject to state income taxes due to Florida having no state income taxes.

The dude was chasing money. It was painfully obvious because he had already won a cup and was criminally underpaid on his last deal, so he was taking this chance to lock down his dumptruck of money. And he absolutely did that.

Exactly.

It's funny how butt hurt fans were about blaming Dubas in all of this and that's exactly what Jakes camp wanted, none of the heat while making it pretty clear what he intended to do. Dubas did the best thing he could have in that situation and I am glad he did. I am not even that mad about the return really, if anything if it ever looks bad it's likely Sullivan and his need to play vets, but that's a different story.

Jake could have listened to Dubas in the summer and figured ok let's go back, I mean players and GM's have clashed before but if he was so close to Sid and the core, he would have come back if he wanted to really come back and stay there, but no, the moment free agency hit, even Carolina realize he wasn't going to sign and wanted to test the market - he went and chose Tampa and the best tax situation for his final massive pay out. Which is fine, but I hate the whole notion of "I wanted to stay!" - No you f***ing didn't, Jake.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Exactly.

It's funny how butt hurt fans were about blaming Dubas in all of this and that's exactly what Jakes camp wanted, none of the heat while making it pretty clear what he intended to do. Dubas did the best thing he could have in that situation and I am glad he did. I am not even that mad about the return really, if anything if it ever looks bad it's likely Sullivan and his need to play vets, but that's a different story.

Jake could have listened to Dubas in the summer and figured ok let's go back, I mean players and GM's have clashed before but if he was so close to Sid and the core, he would have come back if he wanted to really come back and stay there, but no, the moment free agency hit, even Carolina realize he wasn't going to sign and wanted to test the market - he went and chose Tampa and the best tax situation for his final massive pay out. Which is fine, but I hate the whole notion of "I wanted to stay!" - No you f***ing didn't, Jake.

There is zero reason to believe Guentzel didn't want to re-sign with the Penguins.

Whether people want to believe that was in the best interests of the team or not, it was the case that he wanted to stay here.

 

[Empoleon8771]

There is zero reason to believe Guentzel didn't want to re-sign with the Penguins.

Whether people want to believe that was in the best interests of the team or not, it was the case that he wanted to stay here.

There's no reason to say he didn't want to re-sign with the Penguins, no. There's also no reason to think that he was going to sign for anything less than max dollar, especially with how his FA situation ended up playing out.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think this will be Crosby’s 19th season as captain? Only Yzerman has done that with one team. I remember Sid saying he admired Stevie Y but I could be wrong.

Either way he’s going to end up the longest tenured captain of one team.

Sid was a fan of Yzerman growing up but also liked how he stuck with one team his entire career, more of a novelty sort of thing imo, but Yzerman served as Wings Captain for 19 seasons (would have been 20 if it wasn't for the lockout).

Sid is entering his 18th season as Penguins Captain, the first 2 seasons he wasn't Captain, he was named Pens Captain May 2007.

Others that were Captains a long time with one Franchise.

Shane Down - Jets/Arizona - Technically same franchise, 13 seasons.
Lemieux was 13 seasons
Toews was 14 seasons, now a basic bitch enjoying Burning Man
Ovechkin is entering his 16th season as Captain
Joe Sakic (Like Doan) - Same team different locations - 17 seasons

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

There's no reason to say he didn't want to re-sign with the Penguins, no. There's also no reason to think that he was going to sign for anything less than max dollar, especially with how his FA situation ended up playing out.

There is. Namely, his express statement that he wanted to re-sign in Pittsburgh.

 

[Empoleon8771]

There is. Namely, his express statement that he wanted to re-sign in Pittsburgh.

Okay. That doesn't change that he was obviously chasing money and trying to get the biggest payday he could, and if the Penguins weren't going to offer that, he would have left to gone somewhere else that would.

He easily could have wanted to re-sign in Pittsburgh while also leaving because the Penguins weren't offering him the money he wanted.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

There is zero reason to believe Guentzel didn't want to re-sign with the Penguins.

Whether people want to believe that was in the best interests of the team or not, it was the case that he wanted to stay here.

There's also zero reason to believe Guentzel did want to re-sign with the Penguins.

A player that wants to re-sign doesn't make it as difficult as Jake's camp did to stay on the Penguins. The way he acted about negotiations was like if he was Sidney Crosby or some shit. Because what you forget is that Jake's contract that ended, he literally signed it during the f***ing season.

He signed in December of 2018. But oh sure, suddenly he has this stipulations that he never did before that?

Penguins Sign Jake Guentzel To 5-Year Contract Extension

The Pittsburgh Penguins have signed forward Jake Guentzel to a five-year, $30 million contract extension.

www.cbsnews.com

"No negotiations during season, only off season."

LOL, you want to believe that narrative, go ahead, but Jake's camp basically made it impossible to sign him because he never intended to stay, that's a tactic like pricing themselves off the team so as not to ask for a trade but doing it via salary demands knowing the cap structure can't handle it, etc. Jake did that with the rules of no negotiations during season.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Okay. That doesn't change that he was obviously chasing money and trying to get the biggest payday he could, and if the Penguins weren't going to offer that, he would have left to gone somewhere else that would.

He easily could have wanted to re-sign in Pittsburgh while also leaving because the Penguins weren't offering him the money he wanted.

He also easily could have wanted to re-sign in Pittsburgh for less than he signed for elsewhere, but chose to sign with the highest bidder when it boiled down to teams he had absolutely no history or connection to.

We don't know definitively either way. But we do know that he would've preferred to stay in Pittsburgh, all things being equal.

 

[Empoleon8771]

He also easily could have wanted to re-sign in Pittsburgh for less than he signed for elsewhere, but chose to sign with the highest bidder when it boiled down to teams he had absolutely no history or connection to.

We don't know definitively either way. But we do know that he would've preferred to stay, all things being equal.

But all things weren't equal, because the Penguisn couldn't meet the number that other teams could have/would have been willing to give Guentzel.

Again, it's so painfully obvious that he was chasing money more than anything. They wouldn't have gotten him to sign for less than 8x8 (which was allegedly his ask from the Canes as well), and I can't see any reason why the Penguins are in a position where they should be giving him that kind of deal.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

There's no reason to say he didn't want to re-sign with the Penguins, no. There's also no reason to think that he was going to sign for anything less than max dollar, especially with how his FA situation ended up playing out.

The part that gets me mate, is that he apparently had talks with Dubas in the off season, something around 50m and 6yrs (8.5m/yr cap hit) or something like that was reported, but then when the season started, in around January his camp stated they wanted to discuss it in the off season not during the season and Jake's camp wanted to see what the outlook for the Penguins was in the short and long term - like lets be real here for a second, Jake and Hankinson saw the Penguins are not going to contend for shit and given his age, he could get more on the open market and with a team with a better future than the Penguins.

He literally has signed an extension during the season before, he was on it before he was traded and it ended on July 1st. So here was always that where he did negotiate during the season. The issue this time was he didn't seem all that invested in the direction the Penguins were going in, I don't blame Jake at all for that. Not even mad that he did what he did, Dubas did what he should have as a GM and I am fine with that too.

But to sit there and act like Jake always wanted to stay and Dubas f***ed it up, that's where I call bullshit by some Pens fans.

 

[Pancakes]

I don't think it's a young man's game at all mate. Tampa is one of the oldest teams in the league right there with the Penguins and have a top powerplay, it's got nothing to do with age. It's the personnel this coaching staff wants on the powerplay that's always been the issue. It's been less about what will help the team score and more about "who do we owe loyalty to first that we should put on this squad."

Wiseman and Oliver being the reasons Quinn gets any clout as a coach that had ok powerplay's is even more comical IMO, because they are relying on a bloke that hasn't coached a powerplay at the NHL level and yet is tasked with doing just that while being someone that was about as bad as Sullivan in terms of similar issues with their coaching strategies and style.

Tampa had two elite shooters in Kucherov and Stamkos. And they had the perfect setup with that of right hand/left hand shots on either side. Will be interesting to see if they can keep up the elite PP numbers without Stamkos. Jake is as we know rather mediocre on the PP. But maybe Tampa will find out how to use him better.

I think you can get away with being an old team on the PP if you have the right ingredients but I don't think we currently do. I think our PP could be coached to better than it is but I dunno that it will ever be elite again. No reason it can't be league average or slightly above though, and it's an embarrassment that it isn't.