Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: Dull days of August... Oooo! A trade!

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm not sure that's entirely true, I think they split the PP into two "equal" sets.

Did they?

Sure looked like a traditional Unit 1/Unit 2 setup to me. But I'm more than prepared to be proven wrong on that matter.

 

[Gurglesons]

Did they?

Sure looked like a traditional Unit 1/Unit 2 setup to me. But I'm more than prepared to be proven wrong on that matter.

Lots of teams use their 2nd best forward on their 2nd PP.

Let me list them.

1.

 

[The Old Master]

Actually, the posters there have the same complaints of Torts as we do of Sullivan. Which makes sense since one is the mentor of the other. There is rumor there that Torts will be moving into a front office role in the next year or so. Maybe Sullivan will want to work for his mentor when that happens.

please, please, please

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I'm not sure that's entirely true, I think they split the PP into two "equal" sets.

But that's nearly impossible to do. Teams on the PP don't automatically change once 1 min has elapsed.

While that may have been their theoretical intention, it almost never comes to fruition. It generally ends up being PP1 = 1:15 and PP2= :45. And that 45 seconds is generally closer to 30 seconds once everyone gets changed out and set up for a final rush/push to the offensive zone.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Lots of teams use their 2nd best forward on their 2nd PP.

Let me list them.

1.

Well when you have Lars Eller and Matthew Phillips on the roster there is only so much room for the Evgeni Malkins of the world.

 

[Solution]

please, please, please

There are some of them that are hoping for that as well. Let's unite both sides of the state for once.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

But that's nearly impossible to do. Teams on the PP don't automatically change once 1 min has elapsed.

While that may have been their theoretical intention, it almost never comes to fruition. It generally ends up being PP1 = 1:15 and PP2= :45. And that 45 seconds is generally closer to 30 seconds once everyone gets changed out and set up for a final rush/push to the offensive zone.

And with the Pens' inability to gain zone entry, that amounts to about 20 seconds in the offensive zone for the first unit and about 5 seconds in the offensive zone for the second unit.

 

[Turin]

St. Louis went from kinda screwing the Oilers to just straight up helping them out for no reason. NHL is so lame sometimes

 

[K Fleur]

Kessel has been gone for 5 years and Sullivan hasn’t figured out powerplay zone entries.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Actually, the posters there have the same complaints of Torts as we do of Sullivan. Which makes sense since one is the mentor of the other. There is rumor there that Torts will be moving into a front office role in the next year or so. Maybe Sullivan will want to work for his mentor when that happens.

Torts sucks, Sullivan sucks, both are overhyped twats.

St. Louis went from kinda screwing the Oilers to just straight up helping them out for no reason. NHL is so lame sometimes

How so? Oilers lost 2 players and the Blues gained 2 that they actually wanted and didn't really give up much because of the offersheet amounts. They got them to sign just the right amount without losing too much. I'm more annoyed that of the older players Dubas could have plucked from the Blues, it had to be Hayes vs Saad.

 

[Tom Hanks]

He might be worth it but geez 7yrs

Matty Beniers Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Statistics of Matty Beniers, a hockey player from Hingham, MA born Nov 5 2002 who was active from 2018 to 2024.

www.hockeydb.com

https://x.com/i/web/status/1825981901846491160

 

[K Fleur]

I wish we had a 21 year old player worth giving a 7 year contract.

Pens superstar prospect Sam Poulin is older than Beniers.

 

[eXile3]

I wish we had a 21 year old player worth giving a 7 year contract.

Pens superstar prospect Sam Poulin is older than Beniers.

Yeah well, usually need top 5 picks for that kind of talent.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Rust was better than Malkin last year imo, when available.
Would have caught him in points if he played all the games, despite the PP2 role. Provided more defensively. Better goal rate.
Jake was over P/PG until traded.
Bunting is a pretty strong career producer too. Wouldn't shock me if he outplays 38 y/o Geno.

I just don't think it's a lock that Malkin will be our 2nd best Forward. The skating's gonna be rough.
He's highly dependant on a significant PP1 bounceback.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yeah well, usually need top 5 picks for that kind of talent.

Or do a better job of identifying traits in players that might end up being elite players rather than just opting for the "safe" option.

 

[Gurglesons]

Or do a better job of identifying traits in players that might end up being elite players rather than just opting for the "safe" option.

Or have a coach who actually gives young players a chance in roles that they could succeed at.

He might be worth it but geez 7yrs

Matty Beniers Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Statistics of Matty Beniers, a hockey player from Hingham, MA born Nov 5 2002 who was active from 2018 to 2024.

www.hockeydb.com

https://x.com/i/web/status/1825981901846491160

Great deal.

Rust was better than Malkin last year imo, when available.
Would have caught him in points if he played all the games, despite the PP2 role. Provided more defensively. Better goal rate.
Jake was over P/PG until traded.
Bunting is a pretty strong career producer too. Wouldn't shock me if he outplays 38 y/o Geno.

I just don't think it's a lock that Malkin will be our 2nd best Forward. The skating's gonna be rough.
He's highly dependant on a significant PP1 bounceback.

Bryan Rust didn't have to play with Colin White.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I wish we had a 21 year old player worth giving a 7 year contract.

Pens superstar prospect Sam Poulin is older than Beniers.

Well when this coach uses all of our prospects as 4th liners or 3rd liners, we'll never know what we could have had.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Or have a coach who actually gives young players a chance in roles that they could succeed at.



Great deal.



Bryan Rust didn't have to play with Colin White.

Rust's usage is a good example actually of when Sullivan actually did try playing youth in the top 6 - He would put Guentzel, Rust, and Sheary in top 6 minutes for stretches and didn't seem all that bothered with trying them there for more than a few games, but the last 7 seasons he completely abandoned that, which means the first 2 seasons were more of an anomaly while the last 7 are more of his standard with using young players. Rust was used a lot in the top 9 in his 2nd season, his first he put up all of 11pts in 41 games mostly as a bottom 6 winger, but in his 2nd year his speed was something Sullivan wanted to utilize with Crosby and Malkin and routinely had him swapping in to both their lines while also spending time on the 3rd line with Bones and Rowney. But majority of Sheary and Rust's time that year was with Sid.

For Rust, in his first 20 games in his 2nd season being used more in the top 6, he had 6pts, 3 goals. His ice time didn't decrease as much as Puustinen's. Puustinen had 8pts in his first 20 games and his minutes were drastically cut for stretches then demoted to the 3rd line immediately, for long f***ing stretches (9 of those games) he barely got more than 9mins (a lot of under 8mins and some even down to 5mins).

Rust in his 41 game rookie season, was averaging basically 12mins evenstrength per game, he wasn't even used that often on the PK, he barely averaged 20 seconds on the PK per game. Puustinen was averaging 10:19 EV/G while putting up better ppg. Drew was playing on average 9:14 EV/G in his rookie year, but his production was downright awful. Sullivan essentially wasted all of Puustinen's 2022-23 season by not calling him up once when Nylander got 9 games - Sullivan barely gave much opportunity to Gruden, Poulin, and Hallander that year and this was a season where Kapanen was completely lost as a player, Heinen was barely considered a regular NHL'er, they brought back some of Sullivan's faves in Bonino via trade and Archibald during the off season (another waste).

So anyone that thinks young players on this team will get a fair shot, probably not unless they miraculously produce in some really awful usage and he's forced to try them in the top 6 and even then, he might not give them as much rope as he did in his first 2 seasons. During a time when he should be trying more, he's trying far less and being insanely stubborn and has for years now.

That 2016-17 version of Sullivan, after winning a cup, was still open to even trying something as whacky as Wilson, Crosby, Hornqvist (in Sid's first game back after injury no less, lol).

Rust from his 2015-16 season to even his 2017-18 season was given a lot of opportunities and it took him another season or 2 with that kind of usage in the top 9 to finally break out and score 27 goals in his 5th season (2019-20). But the many chances he had in the top 6 in that span, Sullivan by then had Rust as one of "his guys" and so he would get a ton of opportunities while still being fairly streaky. He's probably the last player Sullivan would try like that until O'Connor this past season.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Kessel has been gone for 5 years and Sullivan hasn’t figured out powerplay zone entries.

This year is the year.

 

[BusinessGoose]

This year is the year.

If at first you don't succeed, try, try, try, try again.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Rust was better than Malkin last year imo, when available.
Would have caught him in points if he played all the games, despite the PP2 role. Provided more defensively. Better goal rate.
Jake was over P/PG until traded.
Bunting is a pretty strong career producer too. Wouldn't shock me if he outplays 38 y/o Geno.

I just don't think it's a lock that Malkin will be our 2nd best Forward. The skating's gonna be rough.
He's highly dependant on a significant PP1 bounceback.

How the f*** can you say something this ridiculous and not understand where Rust mostly played - With Sid and Jake.

Who did Malkin have? Reilly Smith who didn't even want to be there, Rakell with one arm, Colin f***ing White, Jansen Harkins, and then finally he got Bunting and for a quick fart in the wind, Puustinen. Sullivan had him playing with so much horse shit, Malkin was literally questioning his entire existence as a f***ing hockey player and his game.

But sure, Bryan f***ing Rust, who got some of the best usage as a winger on this roster outside of Jake.

This year is the year.

Sullivan's secret weapon will be trying Lizotte on the powerplay or Beauvillier.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Rust's usage is a good example actually of when Sullivan actually did try playing youth in the top 6 - He would put Guentzel, Rust, and Sheary in top 6 minutes for stretches and didn't seem all that bothered with trying them there for more than a few games, but the last 7 seasons he completely abandoned that, which means the first 2 seasons were more of an anomaly while the last 7 are more of his standard with using young players. Rust was used a lot in the top 9 in his 2nd season, his first he put up all of 11pts in 41 games mostly as a bottom 6 winger, but in his 2nd year his speed was something Sullivan wanted to utilize with Crosby and Malkin and routinely had him swapping in to both their lines while also spending time on the 3rd line with Bones and Rowney. But majority of Sheary and Rust's time that year was with Sid.

For Rust, in his first 20 games in his 2nd season being used more in the top 6, he had 6pts, 3 goals. His ice time didn't decrease as much as Puustinen's. Puustinen had 8pts in his first 20 games and his minutes were drastically cut for stretches then demoted to the 3rd line immediately, for long f***ing stretches (9 of those games) he barely got more than 9mins (a lot of under 8mins and some even down to 5mins).

Rust in his 41 game rookie season, was averaging basically 12mins evenstrength per game, he wasn't even used that often on the PK, he barely averaged 20 seconds on the PK per game. Puustinen was averaging 10:19 EV/G while putting up better ppg. Drew was playing on average 9:14 EV/G in his rookie year, but his production was downright awful. Sullivan essentially wasted all of Puustinen's 2022-23 season by not calling him up once when Nylander got 9 games - Sullivan barely gave much opportunity to Gruden, Poulin, and Hallander that year and this was a season where Kapanen was completely lost as a player, Heinen was barely considered a regular NHL'er, they brought back some of Sullivan's faves in Bonino via trade and Archibald during the off season (another waste).

So anyone that thinks young players on this team will get a fair shot, probably not unless they miraculously produce in some really awful usage and he's forced to try them in the top 6 and even then, he might not give them as much rope as he did in his first 2 seasons. During a time when he should be trying more, he's trying far less and being insanely stubborn and has for years now.

That 2016-17 version of Sullivan, after winning a cup, was still open to even trying something as whacky as Wilson, Crosby, Hornqvist (in Sid's first game back after injury no less, lol).

Rust from his 2015-16 season to even his 2017-18 season was given a lot of opportunities and it took him another season or 2 with that kind of usage in the top 9 to finally break out and score 27 goals in his 5th season (2019-20). But the many chances he had in the top 6 in that span, Sullivan by then had Rust as one of "his guys" and so he would get a ton of opportunities while still being fairly streaky. He's probably the last player Sullivan would try like that until O'Connor this past season.

I still claim that a narrative by some that "Sully plays young players, look at 2016 and 2017!" is misleading.

He only played those young players bc he was familiar with them being in WBS. The further Sully was removed/time passed from his time in WBS, he's been loathe to play kids from there.

Instead of continuing to tap the well that brought him success and be different than the other coaches, he became just like them and lost his edge.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I still claim that a narrative by some that "Sully plays young players, look at 2016 and 2017!" is misleading.

He only played those young players bc he was familiar with them being in WBS. The further Sully was removed/time passed from his time in WBS, he's been loathe to play kids from there.

Instead of continuing to tap the well that brought him success and be different than the other coaches, he became just like them and lost his edge.

What well? Our drafting was pretty bad.

Pittsburgh Penguins Draft History at hockeydb.com

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

What well? Our drafting was pretty bad.

Pittsburgh Penguins Draft History at hockeydb.com

I think it's definitely a case of both being true; the Penguins' younger players/prospects have been hot coiled dogshit for like a decade, and the team/coach has refused to even play them to verify.

 

[molon labe]

I still claim that a narrative by some that "Sully plays young players, look at 2016 and 2017!" is misleading.

He only played those young players bc he was familiar with them being in WBS. The further Sully was removed/time passed from his time in WBS, he's been loathe to play kids from there.

Instead of continuing to tap the well that brought him success and be different than the other coaches, he became just like them and lost his edge.

Been a while - Pens are completely uninspiring and there are other things in life.

Anyway - several things can be true here, right? Our AHL guys can be complete non-starters at the NHL level (not going to say they suck) AND Sullivan can be choosing to grip slow veterans in his lineup that do nothing for 30 game stretches.

The most comical thing is always the 'system(s?)' Sullivan tries to employ against the players he has. That's where real criticism is unavoidable. It's also where the masterclass of keeping his job stems from "if we could just get to our game" - knowing full well we cannot, in fact, ever, get to "our/your" game.

Anyway - one last jab before I go. Dubas plan is obvious right!? We're clearly competing next year WHILE rebuilding. Still holding out hope that Sid sees the light and gets another shot at the title because tuning in to see the slow train-wreck is/will continue to be difficult.