Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: Dull days of August... Oooo! A trade!

[Empoleon8771]

Obviously not their #1 prospect.

McGroarty is a better prospect than Yager though.

Other teams weren't offering a Yager caliber prospect, hence why McGroarty wasn't traded to them.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

How do you know what other teams offered?

I'd be curious if there were any offers and what they were, I wonder if most teams weren't even giving up anything close or felt there were other issues, we'll never know I guess. Because if Rutger is supposedly a much better prospect (a dipshit statement and a half considering one was drafted a year before and has another year of development over Yager) then why wasn't there more buzz about which teams wanted him and what they offered?

Rakell- Crosby- McGroarty
Bunting- Malkin- Rust
O'Connor- Glass- Hayes
Lizotte- Ponomarev- Beauvillier/Puustinen

You know what, the wonky handedness and positions is more Sullivan on brand.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'd be curious if there were any offers and what they were, I wonder if most teams weren't even giving up anything close or felt there were other issues, we'll never know I guess. Because if Rutger is supposedly a much better prospect (a dipshit statement and a half considering one was drafted a year before and has another year of development over Yager) then why wasn't there more buzz about which teams wanted him and what they offered?


You know what, the wonky handedness and positions is more Sullivan on brand.

There was an asinine amount of buzz for teams that wanted him. It's just that a lot of teams don't have a prospect on par with Yager that they'd be willing to trade for him.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I am happy about this trade. We got a better prospect and a more NHL ready prospect.

I am not ruling out the team making a playoff run this year, either. Rutger would help that. Yager wouldn't.
DOC is a very nice player. One of our better players. But he should not be a lock for L1. We got a top 9 LW and a better prospect than what we had (albeit Yager is still a good prospect in of himself).

 

[Empoleon8771]

It makes no sense for any Penguins fan to be mad about the McGroarty trade, because at worst it's a swap of two similar prospects with similar upsides. Both were #14 picks in their draft years and both have had good years after being drafted. At absolute worst, they got an equivalent prospect with an extra year of development under his belt.

Even if you want to take out the "who's a better prospect" angle entirely, they traded Yager for a year older Yager. At absolute worst, it's a neutral move in terms of prospects where they get the guy who's a bit further along in his development.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I really hated the Beauvillier signing and hate it even more tbh

I never understood it to begin with when they added him and kept DOC. To keep O'Connor and Beauvillier is just weird, they're both fairly similar except for size and AB is definitely faster but DOC has proven very little at the NHL level and Beauvillier has proven he was a flash in the pan on the Isles as a potential top 6 winger because he couldn't show anything of value in Vancouver, Chicago, or Nashville. The funny part is, Drew O'Connor's breakthrough season is probably what AB brings most of the time on average and really that's all DOC is to be honest. He's basically a 3rd line winger that this coach keeps trying to turn into a top 6 winger and he just really isn't. I wouldn't be shocked at all to see Rutger basically out play DOC, probably even Beauvillier to be fair.

Anthony's only hype was that he put up 20pts in 33 games for Vancouver when he was dealt, then never showed any of that again. I mean when you put up a 50pt pace in 33 games, you get people to wonder if maybe he had more to his game, but then he followed that up with a 30pt pace and was moved to the Hawks where he put up a 21pt pace for them and then off to the Preds where he put up a whopping 16pt pace. He played for 3 different teams and was increasingly worse each time.

Beauvillier and O'Connor are a year apart, I think it'd be easier to just keep one that has shown he can do more than the one that at this late stage is probably not going to show you more than what he did last season in his "breakthrough" season. Basically another Heinen type and Sullivan loves those types in spades. I find it funny that blokes here claim Sullivan loves McGroarty and his type of heavy game, lol since when? He's basically punished any player that showed any sort of mean streak in his game, Bunting is probably someone Sullivan has to play knowing Dubas' ties to him and that Bunting is actually very solid of a player.

If we are looking for a 3rd line LW, Beauvillier to me is probably a better fit. Drew to me is just another one of those we keep forever thinking he will be more but just isn't because of how Sullivan groomed his game and he's essentially just this - at best a 30-35pt winger that doesn't really push the needle as a 2-way winger as most think he does and doesn't use his size enough. Beauvillier is fast and about a good if not better at what DOC does and has proven he can produce but seems to be one of those - needs to stay on a line to build chemistry (Sullivan will destroy that).

 

[SEALBound]

Rutger might actually be an idiot.

"I don't like how the Jets treat young players."

Goes to a team that doesn't give young players any sort of fair shot at all.


LOOOOOOL

I have serious doubts.

But we got Fudd Ruckers, the bloke that didn't like to be on a team that actually played youth to one that basically closed all spots for youth with more vets.

Sully might give him a shot because he's not Euro and is a yank.

Your first mistake is assuming Kindergarten Kyle has a plan.

This is less about the trade and more about Fudd Ruckers comments about the Jets and why he didn't want to sign. The Penguins are far more guilty of doing what he accused the Jets of than the Jets

I'd respect the dumb twat more if he just said he didn't want to live in Winnipeg instead of making of some bs and going to a team literally more guilty of it.

Dude, your entire last page of posts are bad. Are you drinking or something? Log off or go read a different thread or something.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think Rakell works better with Crosby, and I think the possession numbers show that, too, but Sullivan loves playing Rust on Crosby's line.

Meanwhile, Rust works with Malkin, too.

Oh you're preaching to the choir. Every single metric proves Rakell is a better fit for Crosby's line and game and brings more 2-way ability than anyone else on the roster as well as being a legitimate top 6 winger that can produce 50-60+ points. He had a bad shoulder injury that lingered all through the season and the funny thing is, he got a lot of hate while upon his return he produced at near a 50pt pace while noticeably being bothered with that shoulder all season. I read that dipshit mailbag by that crusty shit-stain Yohe how he would have dealt Rakell+ for Laine, showing how increasingly stupid he and Rossi are with understanding anything about this team or the players involved. Laine on this roster over Rakell would have been brutal.

I think the biggest farce is the notion Rust is a solid 2-way winger, as a massive Rust fan, that just isn't the case.

Dude, your entire last page of posts are bad. Are you drinking or something? Log off or go read a different thread or something.

His entire disdain with the Jets was about how they treated young players like Perfetti, etc. He's now going to a team that is more egregious with their usage of youth and lackthereof and their entire off season was basically designed to take away more spots for youth.

So yeah, pardon me mate.

Maybe he sees the insane lack of competition on the left side on the Penguins as an easy win to make the NHL roster, but he also likely understands, this coach will prioritize veterans over youth because it's less guess work for him and he'd rather fall on old faithful vs potential.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Good thing we signed a bunch of old dudes for twice as much as the young ones to perform just as badly in the bottom 6.

That’s what you might call vision. You spell it BIZUNE.

We should be thanking Dubas for it.

We should be thanking Dubas and Sullivan, Kindergarten Kyle only executed Sullivan's vision. The Yager deal is probably the one where Dubas felt ok, maybe all of these veterans and the wait is too much and did something interesting that he wanted to do for once. McGroarty is kind of like Knies in Dubas' mind.

Dubas liked Knies and wanted his own version, definitely didn't see any in the draft where the Penguins picked where he could get one, so McGroarty being the best option made sense. The veteran hoarding is more Sullivan than anything.

 

[Tom Hanks]

On the Pens McGroarty would be the biggest legitimate hyped prospect since Staal.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

Oh you're preaching to the choir. Every single metric proves Rakell is a better fit for Crosby's line and game and brings more 2-way ability than anyone else on the roster as well as being a legitimate top 6 winger that can produce 50-60+ points. He had a bad shoulder injury that lingered all through the season and the funny thing is, he got a lot of hate while upon his return he produced at near a 50pt pace while noticeably being bothered with that shoulder all season. I read that dipshit mailbag by that crusty shit-stain Yohe how he would have dealt Rakell+ for Laine, showing how increasingly stupid he and Rossi are with understanding anything about this team or the players involved. Laine on this roster over Rakell would have been brutal.

I think the biggest farce is the notion Rust is a solid 2-way winger, as a massive Rust fan, that just isn't the case.

You have a way with words, lol.

On the Pens McGroarty would be the biggest legitimate hyped prospect since Staal.

Who does John Leclair have to hurt to make sure he makes the team?

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I think the main concern I have with Yager are the fairly consistent reports from people who watched Moose Jaw last year that said "Yager was a passenger with great teammates". The weight is why he probably doesn't stick at center, the bigger concern is how much his great 2023-2024 was him versus who he was playing with.

Can you find these? Wasn’t a passenger when I watched. They were all good players, was he the best CHLer of the bunch? No. Did he benefit from the talent he shared ice with at times, especially on the PP? Yes. But his teammates benefited from him as well.

Passenger though? No way.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I think the biggest farce is the notion Rust is a solid 2-way winger, as a massive Rust fan, that just isn't the case.

You know who’s also a massive Rust fan……..

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Can you find these? Wasn’t a passenger when I watched. They were all good players, was he the best CHLer of the bunch? No. Did he benefit from the talent he shared ice with at times, especially on the PP? Yes. But his teammates benefited from him as well.

Passenger though? No way.

The games I watched of Yager didn't show he was a passenger either, he was a catalyst each time he was out there and at times just looked like he was toying in the offensive zone with his hockey IQ. It's weird that blokes even say this sort of thing and then claim others stated it when blokes like you and I have actually seen some games and never noticed it. Must be the 16 games or something that he did it in that somehow we missed.

 

[JRS91]

I think people are doing a bit of wishful thinking.

I think if he manages to make the lineup in October, he'll probably start on the third line. I think unless he has an unreal camp and preseason and fits with Crosby or Malkin, he'll have to work his way up. It'll probably be something like this.

O'Connor - Crosby - Rust
Bunting - Malkin - Rakell
Beauvillier - Hayes - McGroarty
Lizotte - Eller - Acciari

 

[Empoleon8771]

Can you find these? Wasn’t a passenger when I watched. They were all good players, was he the best CHLer of the bunch? No. Did he benefit from the talent he shared ice with at times, especially on the PP? Yes. But his teammates benefited from him as well.

Passenger though? No way.

I think calling him a passenger was bad wording on my part. What I meant was that it was mostly his teammates (namely Savoie and Mateychuk from what I read) were the real "drivers" of the lines he was on. He had a terrific year but wouldn't have come close to meeting that without being surrounded with some downright elite juniors talent.

You have some extreme takes like this:



But the general vibe of "he wasn't as good as his numbers suggest" seems to be a common trend in discussions around him.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

You know who’s also a massive Rust fan……..

View attachment 902704

Hey mate you know I am a big Rust fan, for a bloke that is occasionally used as a PK winger, there are definitely seasons where he barely clocks even a minute per game and then he's gone for 3 seasons or so in a row where he was, recently last season he was used in that regard maybe more for his speed to attempt shorthanded goals or whatever but his game when he's in the top 6 is severely lacking in that area. He used to balance that as a winger but now he really doesn't which is just odd of his game. Even with Jake or Doc, Rust isn't really helping down low as much as he used to. I mean given Jake cheats a lot and Sid had more games where he wasn't coming back as often, Rust is that third cog that really needed to do that and even when Doc was on Sid's line he really didn't push the needle in that direction. Only Rakell did and you saw it in his game each time.

I selfishly wished he was more like a Mark Stone for us, but that's more my bad.

 

[Jacob]

Beauvillier - Hayes - whoever seems like a good 4th.

I think calling him a passenger was bad wording on my part. What I meant was that it was mostly his teammates (namely Savoie and Mateychuk from what I read) were the real "drivers" of the lines he was on. He had a terrific year but wouldn't have come close to meeting that without being surrounded with some downright elite juniors talent.

You have some extreme takes like this:



But the general vibe of "he wasn't as good as his numbers suggest" seems to be a common trend in discussions around him.

And his numbers weren’t even that good.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think calling him a passenger was bad wording on my part. What I meant was that it was mostly his teammates (namely Savoie and Mateychuk from what I read) were the real "drivers" of the lines he was on. He had a terrific year but wouldn't have come close to meeting that without being surrounded with some downright elite juniors talent.

You have some extreme takes like this:



But the general vibe of "he wasn't as good as his numbers suggest" seems to be a common trend in discussions around him.

So just entirely ignoring his previous season? Putting up a few extra from 78 to 95 is some giant leap apparently and the addition of Savoie just last season makes the entirety of his draft ranking and scouting as well as his production and game in 2022-23 null and void?

Beauvillier - Hayes - whoever seems like a good 4th.

Kind of curious what Dubas does with the insane influx of 4th liners this team has right now. Also they need to decide of Cody Glass is going to be a RW or a C and stick with it and not mess about. He's a natural C and looks best in that slot but if they abandon that and see him as a right winger, I hope they stick with that. One of the most frustrating things about the McCann thing was the moment he was finally looking good as a 3C, they'd yank him up to be winger in the top 6 and then he'd look off when thrown back into his C role.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think calling him a passenger was bad wording on my part. What I meant was that it was mostly his teammates (namely Savoie and Mateychuk from what I read) were the real "drivers" of the lines he was on. He had a terrific year but wouldn't have come close to meeting that without being surrounded with some downright elite juniors talent.

You have some extreme takes like this:



But the general vibe of "he wasn't as good as his numbers suggest" seems to be a common trend in discussions around him.

I was making this argument all summer in the prospect thread.

 

[Empoleon8771]

So just entirely ignoring his previous season? Putting up a few extra from 78 to 95 is some giant leap apparently and the addition of Savoie just last season makes the entirety of his draft ranking and scouting as well as his production and game in 2022-23 null and void?

I'm not saying that Yager is a bad prospect, I'm saying he's not as good of a prospect as his production suggests. 95 points in 57 games out of a draft+1 year guy is elite prospect territory, but Yager just isn't that. He's a firmly great prospect that's on the border of top-50 prospects in the NHL.

Dylan Guenther was the #9 overall pick in 2021, and then put up 91 points in 59 games with the Oil King in his draft+1 year. That's actually worse than the level of production that Yager put up in his draft+1 with Moose Jaw last year, since Yager had 95 points in 57 games. But Yager is clearly a step below Guenther as a prospect, and Guenther has continued to show why he was an elite prospect in his NHL performance since then.

Guenther put up 35 points in 45 games as a 20 year old NHLer. I don't even know that Yager's upside is that level of production, yet Yager's WHL production in his draft+1 year was better than Guenther's.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I don't think I would want WBS filled with most of these 4th liners either like Nieto, Acciari, etc and take away spots from younger players, it'd be useless to keep them and maybe 1 or 2 whatever but this team has - Bemstrom, Nieto, Acciari, Eller, Hayes, Beauvillier, Puljujarvi, Glass, Puustinen, Lizotte, and O'Connor for 6 spots.

 

[Jacob]

I think someone would be willing to take Acciari if we toss a mid-round pick in or maybe a prospect like Gauthier. Looking at San Jose.

We’re also a little thin on D after Aho/Ludvig, we could swap Bemstrom or Nieto for their blue-line equivalent.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I'm not saying that Yager is a bad prospect, I'm saying he's not as good of a prospect as his production suggests. 95 points in 57 games out of a draft+1 year guy is elite prospect territory, but Yager just isn't that. He's a firmly great prospect that's on the border of top-50 prospects in the NHL.

Dylan Guenther was the #9 overall pick in 2021, and then put up 91 points in 59 games with the Oil King in his draft+1 year. That's actually worse than the level of production that Yager put up in his draft+1 with Moose Jaw last year, since Yager had 95 points in 57 games. But Yager is clearly a step below Guenther as a prospect, and Guenther has continued to show why he was an elite prospect in his NHL performance since then.

Guenther put up 35 points in 45 games as a 20 year old NHLer. I don't even know that Yager's upside is that level of production, yet Yager's WHL production in his draft+1 year was better than Guenther's.

Your whole Guenther argument kind proves that those points are to be taken with a grain of salt. His production showed he can do it but his overall game is where you needed to focus. Yager focused too much as a playmaker in 2022-23 and the area they wanted him to focus on was being a little more selfish and his overall game, if you watched last season he did just that, he was a better overall player and he was using his shot far more than he did the previous year. I think those are the areas I focused on more than say being considered a passenger.

McGroarty has another year to kind of go over what he is as a prospect, Yager was drafted a year after and we'll get to see what he does this season before the Jets even consider him a potential NHL roster player sooner than later. Yager was ranked 11th for NA Skaters for the 2023 draft and not including IT skaters, he like Rutger, went 14th overall his draft year. No one is saying he went higher or lower than he should have, but now it seems like a lot here want to say he went higher than he should have.

https://media.nhl.com/site/vasset/public/attachments/2023/04/16970/2023%20NHL%20CS%20Final%20Rankings%20-%20NA%20Skaters.pdf

I think the Jets also got a very good player, but it's weird to see fans here kind of saying he wasn't as good as others think when really he is still a very good prospect with a very high upside and is still just 19yrs old. It's funny to see Rutger McGroarty now getting super hyped, he was listed as the 22nd best NA Skater his draft year and that's not including the IT skaters, he went 14th.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think someone would be willing to take Acciari if we toss a mid-round pick in or maybe a prospect like Gauthier. Looking at San Jose.

I'd be targeting teams that are near the cap floor. Flames and Ducks are just barely over the cap floor, isn't there a penalty if they go below it even during the season?

Maybe Acciari to one of those teams or even Eller or if we're lucky, both. Flames still need to sign Pelletier but have like 20m+ in cap space. Bemstrom in WBS is fine, but the others definitely needed to be punted.

McGroarty, Crosby, Rakell
Bunting, Malkin, Rust
O'Connor, Glass, Puustinen
Beauvillier, Hayes, Lizotte
Puljujarvi

Tell Sid to stop f***ing crying, they got him a new Nebraskan to chill tf out with and sign that extension.

I'd probably trade out - Poulin, Eller, and Acciari then demote Bemstrom. I think Nieto is basically cooked for his injury.