Salary Cap: Pens Salary Thread: Pens Ownership "Dubas... that Coca-Cola machine. I want you to shoot the lock off it. There may be some waiver players in there."

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vikingGoalie

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Oct 31, 2010
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I hated the jarry signing mainly due to my dislike of jarry.. he fooled me into thinking he might've improved but then his annual swoon after all star break came back full force.

Graves no one thought was bad at the time.
Smith most thought it was an excellent pickup.
Hell rakell not long ago was useful in the top 6.

But all three went in the tank. Bunting has been fine. Considering Jake will get twice what bunting is being paid it was the right decision. Also dubas even said. The market for a pure rental like Jake is wildly different then someone with term. We basically got a legit top 6 winger and a few chances on some decent prospects that we have something good in one of them at least. Good meaning contributing nhlers
 
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Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
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I hated the jarry signing mainly due to my dislike of jarry.. he fooled me into thinking he might've improved but then his annual swoon after all star break came back full force.

Graves no one thought was bad at the time.
Smith most thought it was an excellent pickup.
Hell rakell not long ago was useful in the top 6.

But all three went in the tank. Bunting has been fine. Considering Jake will get twice what bunting is being paid it was the right decision. Also dubas even said. The market for a pure rental like Jake is wildly different then someone with term. We basically got a legit top 6 winger and a few chances on some decent prospects that we have something good in one of them at least. Good meaning contributing nhlers
Eh, I've never been on board with signing a #4/5 defenseman for that long of a term. We could've gotten similar performance out of a veteran on a 1-2 year, $3 million or less deal.
 

Gurglesons

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Dec 18, 2009
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Graves no one thought was bad at the time.
Smith most thought it was an excellent pickup.
Hell rakell not long ago was useful in the top 6.

1711493083053.png
 

Jag68Sid87

Sullivan gots to go!
Oct 1, 2003
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The big problem I have with Dubas, and if I am being honest I don't know for sure that it is entirely on him per se, is his lack of activity. Yeah, he makes big moves on July 1 and at the deadline, but what about the other 363 days of the year? I see players signing ELCs coming out of college hockey all around the league. I see teams signing their own picks from Europe, college hockey and junior hockey. Whom have we signed since the start of this regular season? Puljujarvi, ok. Not terrible. We claimed Ludvig, that might be something. We also claimed Harkins. Horrible.

I feel like he is a part-time GM at a time when this organization needs one of the most pro-active GMs in franchise history. That is my main beef. The deadline was underwhelming. It started with a bang (Ruhwedel deal was a steal) but ended with a whimper. I actually like the Guentzel deal (yeah yeah, quantity over quality. Where this franchise is at, I want as many prospect bullets as possible). But the Guentzel deal makes zero sense when Smith, Eller and Ned (or Jarry I suppose) is still here.

Go sign some ELCs. This summer, if the plan is to do anything other than trade Eller, Smith and probably one more vet (Acciari, Graves, Rakell, Jarry et al), then that is it for me. I don't want to hear any talk of staying competitive during the core's remaining years. That literally has nothing to do with trading underachieving veterans and making the team younger on the NHL roster and accumulating more future assets to better your situation moving forward.

In fact, if you want to use some cap space to add a player or two via free agency this summer, go ahead. But only AFTER you created space both on the salary cap and the roster by moving out the above names. If you want to bring back Nedeljkovic, I have no problem with that. But you have to have a trade in place for Jarry first. If you want to bring back Guentzel or some other top-six winger, I am fine with that. But not before you trade Smith, Eller et al for futures. It is about asset management and bettering your overall situation.

And we all know that none of this matters if Sullivan is still the coach. But do we have to keep all of his assistants? Can we bring in a high-level assistant a la Andrew Brunette with New Jersey?

I'm giving Dubas one more summer to clean some of this mess up. Some things are (seemingly) out of his hands, like the coach. But some of this is on him, too. We don't know to what extent Crosby is upset with the current situation. But I would like to think that Dubas can have a relationship with 87 similar to what MacLellan has with Ovi. The Capitals have been retooling on the fly waaaay better than us. Ovechkin seems fine with the moves, even those that involved his pals (Orlov last season, Kuznetsov this season, the whole Backstrom situation et al). THAT is how you do it. They are in better shape than we are despite the fact our veterans are better than theirs (in my humble opinion). But they have Lapierre. They have Miroshnichenko. Sandin was a shrewd acquisition. Etc.

The simple truth is they kept more first-round picks than we did over these last 5-6 years. They did not subscribe to this stupid all-in nonsense. They added AND subtracted every year. The Pens? This is the first year we subtracted. The Guentzel move should be the start of something much bigger. Not a one-off.

Let's see if they have (finally) learned from several years of making the same mistake.
 

DesertedPenguin

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Mar 11, 2007
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The big problem I have with Dubas, and if I am being honest I don't know for sure that it is entirely on him per se, is his lack of activity. Yeah, he makes big moves on July 1 and at the deadline, but what about the other 363 days of the year? I see players signing ELCs coming out of college hockey all around the league. I see teams signing their own picks from Europe, college hockey and junior hockey. Whom have we signed since the start of this regular season? Puljujarvi, ok. Not terrible. We claimed Ludvig, that might be something. We also claimed Harkins. Horrible.
To address a couple of these...

1. The Pens don't have many draft picks left unsigned that are in needing of a contract. Ilyin, Tankov, and Murashov are going to play in Russa for the foreseeable future. Yager may have to go back to juniors.
2. Of those who might be close, they're all still playing college hockey. College players only sign when their season ends. Tristan Broz (Denver) and Cruz Lucious (Wisconsin) are both still active in the postseason.
3. The rest of the unsigned are late round picks who aren't all that special.
4. Almost none of the top college free agents have signed because they are all still playing.
5. Same with the unsigned junior hockey players.
 
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ThosePuckingPenguins

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Apr 28, 2009
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That Jake quote…so now we’re mad that we didn’t extend a player who is going to be 30 years old on an eight year deal which most of this board would’ve flipped out over? Is that what we’re doing? Most people were calling for him to be traded. You can argue what we got wasn’t great but it’s going to be hilarious to see some on this board use that quote as a mark against Dubas despite so many wanting him NOT to give Jake a long term deal.
 

CheckingLineCenter

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Aug 10, 2018
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OC, Poolparty and Puus all should be in the bottom 6 full time next year. Hopefully Ponomarev can slide into 3C and Eller to 4C.

Lot of work to be done past that but they need to turn the keys over to these young guys rather than Carter, Nieto, Acciari types.
 
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Empoleon8771

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The big thing regarding Guentzel that I'm confused about is why can't the Penguins re-sign him in the off-season? All of this complaining about "I can't believe they didn't extend him when he wanted to stay in Pittsburgh", if he wants to play in Pittsburgh so badly, why can't he sign with them in the off-season?

If Guentzel wanted to be in Pittsburgh so badly, he'd realize that trading him as a rental for assets made sense and he'd just come back in the off-season. But when he inevitably signs somewhere else for far too much money and far too long, everyone will realize his "I'm so sad I was traded!" talk is just bogus.
 
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BusinessGoose

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I don't think he wanted to re-sign here. Dubas would have done a horrible deal, if JG wanted it. He sucks at negotiating deals AND thinks we're contenders still. JG didn't wanna stay.

Instead Dubas had to panic trade him for anything.

Or he re-signs over the summer at a reasonable rate and I have to change my theory.
 

Pancakes

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The big thing regarding Guentzel that I'm confused about is why can't the Penguins re-sign him in the off-season? All of this complaining about "I can't believe they didn't extend him when he wanted to stay in Pittsburgh", if he wants to play in Pittsburgh so badly, why can't he sign with them in the off-season?

If Guentzel wanted to be in Pittsburgh so badly, he'd realize that trading him as a rental for assets made sense and he'd just come back in the off-season. But when he inevitably signs somewhere else for far too much money and far too long, everyone will realize his "I'm so sad I was traded!" talk is just bogus.
DK spoke to him and "On the idea of him (Guentzel) coming back after this season: "I don't know. We'll see how this year goes. I really like it in Carolina."

Sounds like he's as good as gone already. I sincerely doubt he's coming back unless Carolina decides not to sign him and/or can't afford him. Then maybe he'd come to the Pens as a plan b. Maybe.
 

Empoleon8771

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DK spoke to him and "On the idea of him (Guentzel) coming back after this season: "I don't know. We'll see how this year goes. I really like it in Carolina."

Sounds like he's as good as gone already. I sincerely doubt he's coming back unless Carolina decides not to sign him and/or can't afford him. Then maybe he'd come to the Pens as a plan b. Maybe.

Then no one should believe his bullcrap of "I wanted to stay in Pittsburgh so badly!" claim, that was the point I was making.

I respect his decision for giving the political response, but I just hope no one takes it literally. If he truly wanted to stay in Pittsburgh so much, he'd come back in the off-season. But I think we all know he's going to cash out on a huge contract from some other team.
 

Pancakes

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Then no one should believe his bullcrap of "I wanted to stay in Pittsburgh so badly!" claim, that was the point I was making.

I respect his decision for giving the political response, but I just hope no one takes it literally. If he truly wanted to stay in Pittsburgh so much, he'd come back in the off-season. But I think we all know he's going to cash out on a huge contract from some other team.
Yeah I think he will cash out from Carolina. And if they can't afford him, he'll go to someone who can.

I don't think the Pens have the cap to give Jake a gigantic contract so he'd have to take a discount to come here. Seems unlikely.
 

FlightlessBird

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With all the many reports that have come out way before the trade deadline and up to and after, I get the sense that Jake’s agent basically controls him. (That’s obviously just pure speculation on my part.) So taking his postgame quote with the viewpoint that he was told what to say if he got asked a question like that by his agent makes me roll my eyes. It’s a ploy to make him come off as the good guy/victim in the whole situation.

We know for a fact he/his agent did not want to negotiate during the season (and he’s also indicated as much since joining Carolina apparently). The Pens are just going to take a player’s word that he wants to come back and will talk after the season? Yeah, then you end up like the Islanders when they lost Tavares. No thanks.
 
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eXile3

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Dec 12, 2020
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With all the many reports that have come out way before the trade deadline and up to and after, I get the sense that Jake’s agent basically controls him. (That’s obviously just pure speculation on my part.) So taking his postgame quote with the viewpoint that he was told what to say if he got asked a question like that by his agent makes me roll my eyes. It’s a ploy to make him come off as the good guy/victim in the whole situation.

We know for a fact he/his agent did not want to negotiate during the season (and he’s also indicated as much since joining Carolina apparently). The Pens are just going to take a player’s word that he wants to come back and will talk after the season? Yeah, then you end up like the Islanders when they lost Tavares. No thanks.
No offense but what a load a crap. We don’t know for a fact his agent didn’t want to negotiate a new contract because both Dubas and Jake have said the complete opposite. Dubas owned not wanting to negotiate. He said it in the press conference.

Don’t try and turn Jake into the bad guy because Dubas ran him out of here. This organization is run by idiots and the entire ordeal was handled without tact.
 

CheckingLineCenter

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Aug 10, 2018
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The Kessel trade essentially came to be due to Sully refusing to adjust his deployment and continuing to shove a square peg in a round hole making him play with Geno.

We’d be in a better place right now had we kept Phil and nuked Sully.
My whole point is that the Pens suck. We traded a pending UFA who could actually net some pieces. It would’ve been idiotic to not trade him, and idiotic to sign him to a big UFA deal with where this franchise is.

I don’t get this emotional attachment to Guentzel y’all have. It needed to be done, independent of whatever you think of Sully/FSG/Dubas.
 

Ulf5

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Feb 21, 2017
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My whole point is that the Pens suck. We traded a pending UFA who could actually net some pieces. It would’ve been idiotic to not trade him, and idiotic to sign him to a big UFA deal with where this franchise is.

I don’t get this emotional attachment to Guentzel y’all have. It needed to be done, independent of whatever you think of Sully/FSG/Dubas.
We seeded to trade him especially when useful pieces on expiring contracts, ie- Zucker, were going for lousy 6th round picks.
Rendering Smith and Rakell worthless at the time of the deadline.
 
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CheckingLineCenter

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We seeded to trade him especially when useful pieces on expiring contracts, ie- Zucker, were going for lousy 6th round picks.
Rendering Smith and Rakell worthless at the time of the deadline.
I don’t even think it needs that level of context. Even if prices were higher and you could’ve moved Smith and Rakell for value IMO you still had to trade Guentzel.

Even if the return doesn’t work out I think it would’ve been really crippling to re-sign him. Value instantly tanks, he likely has NTC/NMCs, and you’re committing to less financial flexibility over a period where it’s highly unlikely this team is any good.
 

Ulf5

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I don’t even think it needs that level of context. Even if prices were higher and you could’ve moved Smith and Rakell for value IMO you still had to trade Guentzel.

Even if the return doesn’t work out I think it would’ve been really crippling to re-sign him. Value instantly tanks, he likely has NTC/NMCs, and you’re committing to less financial flexibility over a period where it’s highly unlikely this team is any good.
Absolutely. The only way I would've considered re-signing Jake would've been at $7.5-$8.0 million per year. And I don't see that happening. At that price point, you could've still moved him a couple/few years down the line and still received similar value. Maybe even higher
 
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