3ladesof5teel
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- Feb 20, 2012
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Zucker has also scored the same amount of goals in his career in 100 less games then Smith with him laboring here with his groin injury for 1/2 his time
If you read my initial post you might understand my point. Zucker does things that Smith doesn't so IMO it's not much of an upgrade. And we won't see much difference between the two if your banking on an upgradeWhy does Reilly Smith's production from 2011-2015 have any sort of relevance to the caliber of player they are in 2023?
Smith has been a better offensive player for literally 5 straight years. They both score the same amount of goals while Smith gets more points.
If you ready initial post you might understand my point. Zucker does things that Smith doesn't so IMO it's not much of an upgrade. And we won't see much difference between the two if your banking on an upgrade
Many knights fans talked of Smith slowing down so he was relegated down the lineup at times. We will see
You looking at data that should have an astrik.And if you want to judge by goal totals:
2022-2023: 27 goals in 78 games for Zucker, 26 goals in 78 games for Smith
2021-2022: 8 goals in 41 games for Zucker, 16 goals in 56 games for Smith
2020-2021: 9 goals in 38 games for Zucker, 14 goals in 53 games for Smith
2019-2020: 20 goals in 60 games for Zucker, 27 goals in 71 games for Smith
2018-2019: 21 goals in 81 games for Zucker, 19 goals in 74 games for Smith
Total: 85 goals in 298 games for Zucker (pace of 23 goals per 82 games), 102 goals in 332 games for Smith (pace of 25 goals per 82 games)
I find it downright bizarre that people can look at the data and conclude "Smith is a poor goal scorer" or "Zucker is a better goal scorer than Smith". Even in Zucker's resurgence season after having bad goal totals in 3 of the previous 4 years, he beat Smith by a total of 1 goal.
Not to mention, Smith is head and shoulders the better playoffs scorer. Oh wait, we never making the playoffs again. I'm not doing it right.For like the 5th time, Smith has out-scored Zucker in every single season since 2017-2018. And in that season, the only reason Zucker outscored him is because Smith missed 15 games. That was Zucker's career year, he had 33 goals and 64 points in 82 games compared to 22 goals and 60 points in 67 games for Smith.
Over that 6 years window, the two players have nearly identical goal totals (124 goals in 399 games for Smith, 118 goals in 380 games for Zucker). Smith gets way more assists, kills more penalties and has better on-ice results.
You looking at data that should have an astrik.
You "data" people fail to recognize things that can throw that data all off.
Zucker from 20-22 was dealing with an injury and musical chairs of common linemates who were injured themselves. It's actually impressive he was able to do what he did during that time.
It's not all about the data all the time. It only tells part of the story.
Agree with just about all of this but I’m staying on Karlsson until he’s traded. The Penguins need a home run acquisition (and a lot of luck) for another deep playoff run and he’s the only guy on the market that fits that bill. Hanifin is a solid player who would make us better, but not enough IMO.I hear you on a lot of these fronts, but I do take issue with the idea that Dubas is not trying to get younger. Eller is really the only "older" player he acquired. I would have preferred someone like Morgan Geekie or Michael McLeod, but we don't know if they were ever a possibility. I certainly prefer Eller over Blueger or Kampf. AND, Dubas did acquire a young No. 3 center...Brayden Yager. It may take a few years, but he could slide into that spot. Poulin is also still here (for now).
He has moved out one future asset, just one. The pick we had acquired for Blueger turned into Reilly Smith. That is a win. Is Smith older than Zucker? Absolutely. He is also better in my humble opinion. Far more reliable and proven when it matters most. He is a great addition. Also, Graves is younger than Dumoulin and much needed for this soft roster. He will make an impact. Ditto Acciari, who is a massive upgrade over Archibald.
Nieto is meh, but so was Heinen. Nieto fits the checking line much better. Not sure he makes the team, since guys like O'Connor and Johnsson may beat him out. Johnsson looks like the type of reclamation project Dubas was talking about. Overall, we have improved the bottom six (is it enough? Maybe not). Especially if guys like Nylander, Puustinen, Poulin and O'Connor are given more opportunities. That will be key.
There is no point in moving Carter. He has the NMC and he is finishing his contract this season (and likely his career). Playing under 10 minutes a game should help him. If his line (the fourth) becomes more of a depth scoring line, that could help the team. Also, if he sits out some games, we have the players to replace him...maybe even Poulin? Carter still has some value on special teams, imo. As for Petry and Granlund, clearly Dubas is TRYING to move both of them. Will he succeed? I don't know, there seems to be gridlock with most NHL teams right now. I do suspect someone will be shipped out.
In terms of Jarry, Dubas picked a goaltender and went with it. At least he chose a 27-year-old with some untapped upside. And, he covered himself by adding depth. Quality depth. I think Nedeljkovic will turn out to be one of the best signings of this summer. For me, he is a big upgrade over DeSmith. And he is another goaltender with untapped upside.
If Dubas is done with the off-season, then for sure it will be disappointing. But, the good news is he kept most of our future assets.
I think it is time to pivot away from Karlsson and start looking for other impact player possibilities. I still think he has talked to the Rangers this off-season about Lafreniere, and I think he should continue to pursue that. I would also like him to maybe sign someone like Jesper Boqvist, who played some with Johnsson in NJ and has some untapped upside. He is quite versatile, too.
Until Dubas gives me a reason to dislike what his plan is, I will continue to support it. It does feel like that is a slippery slope, though.
I said that I think people are going to be disappointed that Reilly Smith isn't going to be that much of a difference maker to our top 6.I think there is a sector of Penguins fans who go way overboard with how good Zucker was last year. He outscored Rust by 1 point and everyone said Rust was awful last year. He had 37 5v5 points, which is absolutely good but was also like 70th in the NHL. He was 98th in the NHL in terms of 5v5 points/60, among players who played in more than 200 minutes last year. Smith was 97th in rate and 95th in production (3 fewer 5v5 points) for comparison.
Zucker definitely had a good year, no one can deny that. But that was just it, it was a good year. It was a good year that Reilly Smith has done or exceeded multiple times in the last 6 years.
How do you have any knowledge whether Smith dealt with that as well?
This really just sounds like you're super overrating Zucker and are trying to work backwards from that conclusion.
I'm not thrilled with Jarry. But Boston wants to bring both goalies back according to Sweeney. Hellebuyck hasn't been traded. What other options were there? That were clear cut better?I hear you on a lot of these fronts, but I do take issue with the idea that Dubas is not trying to get younger. Eller is really the only "older" player he acquired. I would have preferred someone like Morgan Geekie or Michael McLeod, but we don't know if they were ever a possibility. I certainly prefer Eller over Blueger or Kampf. AND, Dubas did acquire a young No. 3 center...Brayden Yager. It may take a few years, but he could slide into that spot. Poulin is also still here (for now).
He has moved out one future asset, just one. The pick we had acquired for Blueger turned into Reilly Smith. That is a win. Is Smith older than Zucker? Absolutely. He is also better in my humble opinion. Far more reliable and proven when it matters most. He is a great addition. Also, Graves is younger than Dumoulin and much needed for this soft roster. He will make an impact. Ditto Acciari, who is a massive upgrade over Archibald.
Nieto is meh, but so was Heinen. Nieto fits the checking line much better. Not sure he makes the team, since guys like O'Connor and Johnsson may beat him out. Johnsson looks like the type of reclamation project Dubas was talking about. Overall, we have improved the bottom six (is it enough? Maybe not). Especially if guys like Nylander, Puustinen, Poulin and O'Connor are given more opportunities. That will be key.
There is no point in moving Carter. He has the NMC and he is finishing his contract this season (and likely his career). Playing under 10 minutes a game should help him. If his line (the fourth) becomes more of a depth scoring line, that could help the team. Also, if he sits out some games, we have the players to replace him...maybe even Poulin? Carter still has some value on special teams, imo. As for Petry and Granlund, clearly Dubas is TRYING to move both of them. Will he succeed? I don't know, there seems to be gridlock with most NHL teams right now. I do suspect someone will be shipped out.
In terms of Jarry, Dubas picked a goaltender and went with it. At least he chose a 27-year-old with some untapped upside. And, he covered himself by adding depth. Quality depth. I think Nedeljkovic will turn out to be one of the best signings of this summer. For me, he is a big upgrade over DeSmith. And he is another goaltender with untapped upside.
If Dubas is done with the off-season, then for sure it will be disappointing. But, the good news is he kept most of our future assets.
I think it is time to pivot away from Karlsson and start looking for other impact player possibilities. I still think he has talked to the Rangers this off-season about Lafreniere, and I think he should continue to pursue that. I would also like him to maybe sign someone like Jesper Boqvist, who played some with Johnsson in NJ and has some untapped upside. He is quite versatile, too.
Until Dubas gives me a reason to dislike what his plan is, I will continue to support it. It does feel like that is a slippery slope, though.
Smith is a good pickup but many of you are going to be reeeeaaallly disappointed thinking he is that much better than Zucker that it's going to be much of a difference maker.
I am fine with not resigning Zucker but replacing him with Smith isn't pushing us any further than we were last year with our top 6.
It's still solid but we lack the player that we really need there who will create and drive a line if we want it to be better.
Sir, may I gently remind you HFBoards is no place for cool-headed, reasonable commentary. Please ratchet up hyperbole, hysteria, and negativity in future posts.I hear you on a lot of these fronts, but I do take issue with the idea that Dubas is not trying to get younger. Eller is really the only "older" player he acquired. I would have preferred someone like Morgan Geekie or Michael McLeod, but we don't know if they were ever a possibility. I certainly prefer Eller over Blueger or Kampf. AND, Dubas did acquire a young No. 3 center...Brayden Yager. It may take a few years, but he could slide into that spot. Poulin is also still here (for now).
He has moved out one future asset, just one. The pick we had acquired for Blueger turned into Reilly Smith. That is a win. Is Smith older than Zucker? Absolutely. He is also better in my humble opinion. Far more reliable and proven when it matters most. He is a great addition. Also, Graves is younger than Dumoulin and much needed for this soft roster. He will make an impact. Ditto Acciari, who is a massive upgrade over Archibald.
Nieto is meh, but so was Heinen. Nieto fits the checking line much better. Not sure he makes the team, since guys like O'Connor and Johnsson may beat him out. Johnsson looks like the type of reclamation project Dubas was talking about. Overall, we have improved the bottom six (is it enough? Maybe not). Especially if guys like Nylander, Puustinen, Poulin and O'Connor are given more opportunities. That will be key.
There is no point in moving Carter. He has the NMC and he is finishing his contract this season (and likely his career). Playing under 10 minutes a game should help him. If his line (the fourth) becomes more of a depth scoring line, that could help the team. Also, if he sits out some games, we have the players to replace him...maybe even Poulin? Carter still has some value on special teams, imo. As for Petry and Granlund, clearly Dubas is TRYING to move both of them. Will he succeed? I don't know, there seems to be gridlock with most NHL teams right now. I do suspect someone will be shipped out.
In terms of Jarry, Dubas picked a goaltender and went with it. At least he chose a 27-year-old with some untapped upside. And, he covered himself by adding depth. Quality depth. I think Nedeljkovic will turn out to be one of the best signings of this summer. For me, he is a big upgrade over DeSmith. And he is another goaltender with untapped upside.
If Dubas is done with the off-season, then for sure it will be disappointing. But, the good news is he kept most of our future assets.
I think it is time to pivot away from Karlsson and start looking for other impact player possibilities. I still think he has talked to the Rangers this off-season about Lafreniere, and I think he should continue to pursue that. I would also like him to maybe sign someone like Jesper Boqvist, who played some with Johnsson in NJ and has some untapped upside. He is quite versatile, too.
Until Dubas gives me a reason to dislike what his plan is, I will continue to support it. It does feel like that is a slippery slope, though.
So because HF board posters have a whipping boy?For about 2 years Zucker was the whipping boy around here. People have short memories. Smith just won a Cup last month. Smith is 8 months older than Zucker.
I think that is partially due to Zuck having infectious enthusiasm for each and every shift, hard not to like that. In comparison, Rust looked like he lost confidence in his game last year which, coupled with his new contract, was kind of tough to swallow from a fan's perspective. We need Rust with his head on straight and hopefully his game will follow.I think there is a sector of Penguins fans who go way overboard with how good Zucker was last year. He outscored Rust by 1 point and everyone said Rust was awful last year. He had 37 5v5 points, which is absolutely good but was also like 70th in the NHL. He was 98th in the NHL in terms of 5v5 points/60, among players who played in more than 200 minutes last year. Smith was 97th in rate and 95th in production (3 fewer 5v5 points) for comparison.
Zucker definitely had a good year, no one can deny that. But that was just it, it was a good year. It was a good year that Reilly Smith has done or exceeded multiple times in the last 6 years.
This team missed the playoffs last year while having they’re top 2 aging Centers healthy the entire year. With a key injury or two, They could easily be hot trash this year. Which is why you do not trade potential lottery picks, unless you get a star....which ain’t happening.This team will be hot trash from 2026 until 2031. Yolo it all Dubas. I want every future hall of famer over 35 on the roster. Karlsson, Kane, hell get Spezza out of the front office and on the 4th line. More senior citizens!
At this point it’s salary dump + Smith + 1st and they’re eating like 30%.I think that DeBrincat deal shows the impact that the flat cap plus a limited market has on a player's value. Based on that deal, I'm highly skeptical the Sharks will end up getting Smith, Pickering and a 1st for Karlsson.
At this point it’s salary dump + Smith + 1st and they’re eating like 30%.