Post-Game Talk: Pens/Panthers...Because we close GDTs before putting up post-games for some reason

[Speaking Moistly]

he moved Letang from the top PP unit

That needs to happen again. Martin or Niskanen (or Maatta), but Letang gets the hell off of it.

+ We have our actual #1 defenseman back
- Letang's $ for not being the team's #1

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Yeah, I'm not great at having #2 teams, but at this rate I figure that I'm going to need one. And by #2 team I mean a playoffs team for when the Pens fall flat on their face.

Well, for a period, Wirtz made it tough to watch Hawks games, so I read about them instead, they also sucked for a very long time and I also stuck by them, the funny thing was, I never really liked them until the Pens beat them in the SCF, after that, I started to watch them as well, just to see certain players and then became more of a fan.

Definitely do not share the same passion for the Hawks like I do the Pens though, I don't see that ever happening.

.... He scratched Glass in the playoffs last season... and then had to do it again after he snuck him back in and they lost. He took Dupuis off of Crosby's wing briefly, it was obvious but we all know it was the toughest thing for him. That's all I've got, things that were probably incredibly hard or Bylsma but really simple and obvious to almost everyone else.

When was the Dupuis thing? Seems like the only time he took him off the wing was for 2 shifts of Beau Bennett and back he was, next to Sid.

 

[DegenX]

Because they stuck with that coach, KIRK.

If our board were Hawks fans and controlled the fate of their coach, they certainly wouldn't have.

After their first cup, though, the Blackhawks damn near gutted their roster because of cap reasons ... I don't know that anyone really expected them to do well after loosing what, 8 or 9 players off their roster. Very different situations.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Given the current roster, Megna should be there. Not for 2 minutes. For 12+.

Not Kobasew. I'd be fine trying Jokinen just to see, but I'd rather see Jokinen with Sutter.

Line combinations won't make this team play better, by the way.

BUT HOLDING SOMEONE OTHER THAN SIMON DESPRES ACCOUNTABLE WILL

Despres is such an enigma that his demotion threw the Pens into disarray causing them to lose like they did tonight.

 

[IcedCapp]

Despres is such an enigma that his demotion threw the Pens into disarray causing them to lose like they did tonight.

I enjoyed watching Defensive Stalwart Bruce Orpeck forecheck behind the Panthers net in the 2nd period.

 

[Michael8771*]

I was really hoping Jacques Martin would have made a more meaningful difference. Now let me say our special teams are tremendous, in that regard I'm sure his influence has helped. And there most certainly is more reversals and east-west in our play, which does make it harder to defend than the constant stretch passes that were so damn predictable, and which continually got picked off with no real solution in trying to remedy. But in general our 5 on 5 play is still not where it needs to be. I guess I was expecting a more profound change.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

So basically only when his ass is about to get fired?

Yep. Bylsma works in two scenarios for me
1) With an injured team
2) When he's insecure

 

[MrBurghundy]

I enjoyed watching Defensive Stalwart Bruce Orpeck forecheck behind the Panthers net in the 2nd period.

Its only ok if you are over 30

 

[ss53mech]

I just want someone to tell me what progress they see in this team. We are playing UGLY hockey. We win on talent (just like MT when the players stopped buying in) and we lose and make it look ****ing ugly. The Colorado game was one of the few losses where I'm like "Yeah.. but I saw the team playing a strategy and working hard." The last 30 games have been very ugly.

So RRP and other followers: What progress do you see in this team that keeps you so optimistic? I know we have epic skill... but what optimism. Tell me something so I can join ya. What are they doing on the ice that makes you say "Yup... that works."

Not so much X's and O's but we do have a really good basis for a top six. Geno and Neal even in a game that was as bad as tonight they still have sick ability to play off each other. Sid and Kuni have it as well but there game is much more predicated off effort than feel for each other IMO. So top six wise it's still very much in the realm of fixable with a few simple additions. We have plenty of talent out back to have a more than capable defense corps so with some tweaking it can work. Specifically we have enough there that they can and should be used as assets to shore up the holes mentioned previously.

Specifically on the play, well we saw the team when healthy at the beginning of the season play some sound hockey positionally and playing as a unit. That was back when Kuni and Malkin weren't really contributing much. Not a knock on them they were just starting slow as sometimes happens. I can't defend the falloff in that type of play, but if anything we know the team is capable of it, for decent stretches as well. We can only hope they review some tape or whatever and come to the same conclusion as we do. Add a few specific pieces, play smart hard working hockey and if everyone is on the team is nigh on unstoppable. Even is a few players are off, if the stick with the other parts of the puzzle we are still a competitive club.

How can I be a little positive about, I dunno, I guess it's when I can see a solution all that waiting is execution. It's when I can't see a way out that I get all doom and gloom. So as long as there is way to fix it, I will hold out hope that the solution will be implemented.

 

[drpepper]

On that note, does anyone else feel like Malkin is a disaster on the point? I really think we would be better off with Geno and Sid on separate units. There's only one puck and for those guys to be their most effective they need it. I feel the same way about when the "two headed monster" gets used. It's just not as effective. They don't have the same affect on each other as they do lesser players, meaning they don't make each other better when paired together.

Crosby's registered ~40% of his points with Malkin on the ice (PP & EV) and Malkin has registered 50% of his points with Crosby. So, I don't think that they are ineffective together. Plus the powerplay was one of the best in the league even before Malkin was out suggesting that the issue is not Malkin and Crosby together. I do think that Malkin at point with Letang is a poor choice. I also think that not playing together (Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Kunitz, and Letang) has been detrimental.

 

[Michael8771*]

Its only ok if you are over 30

That's ageism chief! FREE Despres from WB!!!

 

[drpepper]

I was really hoping Jacques Martin would have made a more meaningful difference. Now let me say our special teams are tremendous, in that regard I'm sure his influence has helped. And there most certainly is more reversals and east-west in our play, which does make it harder to defend than the constant stretch passes that were so damn predictable, and which continually got picked off with no real solution in trying to remedy. But in general our 5 on 5 play is still not where it needs to be. I guess I was expecting a more profound change.

I haven't gone back to verify. But I think the changes were there sporadically towards the beginning of the season, and the injuries to the d corps brought in young players who were more dependent on the system and forced the forwards to support the defense more which in most cases brought about better team defense and transition out of the d zone.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Well, for a period, Wirtz made it tough to watch Hawks games, so I read about them instead, they also sucked for a very long time and I also stuck by them, the funny thing was, I never really liked them until the Pens beat them in the SCF, after that, I started to watch them as well, just to see certain players and then became more of a fan.

Definitely do not share the same passion for the Hawks like I do the Pens though, I don't see that ever happening.



When was the Dupuis thing? Seems like the only time he took him off the wing was for 2 shifts of Beau Bennett and back he was, next to Sid.

It's mainly about something to keep me interested in the playoffs once this team is out instead of having a little sulk.


Kunitz - Crosby - Bennett
Dupuis - Malkin - Neal

happened briefy, but Bylsma also kept replacing Bennett with Adams and then Bennett got injured or something like that. It was Bylsma having to acknowledge that KCD wasn't damn well working. It was only for 2 or 3 games.

 

[madinsomniac]

indeed. they like Disco for sure, but nobody can convince me that they respect him.

EJ part three... Great sets at times, great regular season results... vet guys love him... total country club atmosphere.. early playoff exits to inferior teams...
Its 1990 deja-vu... except they lost the front end of the back to back cup appearances

Wheel of Excuses
Injury
Hot Goalie
Flat due to layoff
Tired due to playing a lot
Bounces didn't go their way
Didn't get to their game..

Let me just say when a team repeats a bad action over and over again, that's not even a sign of bad coaching... its that they tuned a coach out altogether... same thing that Sunk eddie O... Give up a shorthander, play terrible... coach says that isn't going to happen anymore... come out and do it again... No accountability = no reason to work hard at something

 

[ss53mech]

Crosby's registered ~40% of his points with Malkin on the ice (PP & EV) and Malkin has registered 50% of his points with Crosby. So, I don't think that they are ineffective together. Plus the powerplay was one of the best in the league even before Malkin was out suggesting that the issue is not Malkin and Crosby together. I do think that Malkin at point with Letang is a poor choice. I also think that not playing together (Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Kunitz, and Letang) has been detrimental.

Maybe it's just the eye test then. I didn't really think (without looking in to it to be honest) that crosby was getting any substantial increase in production when out there with Geno.

My argument isn't so much based off where Geno is playing, it's based on my opinion that we could leverage our talent by splitting the two up by letting sid run the PP for the first 90 (or so) and sending Malkin out for the last 30 and continuing on against hopefully tired, or lesser defensive pairings. Or Malkin goes first the Sid follows up. Could be rotated as the game progresses.

 

[SidDidNothingWrong]

What was the point of bringing Jacques Martin in the coaching staff. We still look like the same crappy undisciplined defensively team of years past. I mean is it the system? because every team that fore checks 3 deep consistently hems us in our zone and when their D-man take away the wall, we have no options of getting puck out. I see ton of teams do that against the Pens. Its a weakness we have to work on but its not getting fixed when it should've been fixed after the Flyers debacle.

This. When watching in the room Jacques Martin barely says a word but watching 24/7 with the Leafs and Wings the assistants had an active role in the team. Bylsma really has just become the autocrat of the Penguins.

 

[turd]

Florida always gives the Pens fits for some reason. Just one of those games... it happens. The ship, most assuredly, is not sinking.

 

[Tender Rip]

It's when I can't see a way out that I get all doom and gloom. So as long as there is way to fix it, I will hold out hope that the solution will be implemented.

I can see several things/decisions I think would improve us. Quite a few of these things not even predicated on any trades.

But deep down I don't believe we can win another cup with Dan Bylsma. I just don't.

 

[drpepper]

Given the current roster, Megna should be there. Not for 2 minutes. For 12+.

Not Kobasew. I'd be fine trying Jokinen just to see, but I'd rather see Jokinen with Sutter.

Line combinations won't make this team play better, by the way.

BUT HOLDING SOMEONE OTHER THAN SIMON DESPRES ACCOUNTABLE WILL

I agree with the current players Megna should be there over Kobasew, Pyatt, and for me Jokinen.

I don't agree that line combinations won't help this team although I think roster is also an issue. Part of playing any team sport is about knowing your teammates and being able to anticipate their actions and decisions. Crosby and Kunitz work so well together because they have that type of knowledge and anticipation. Same with Malkin and Neal.

However, I do think that there are currently systematic issues that need to be addressed including team defense including backchecking, puck possession, and transition from defense to offense which would make the team better regardless of roster or lines.

 

[turd]

What was the point of bringing Jacques Martin in the coaching staff. We still look like the same crappy undisciplined defensively team of years past. I mean is it the system? because every team that fore checks 3 deep consistently hems us in our zone and when their D-man take away the wall, we have no options of getting puck out. I see ton of teams do that against the Pens. Its a weakness we have to work on but its not getting fixed when it should've been fixed after the Flyers debacle.

I don't really think this game had much to do with Martin and the system. A lot of it was boneheaded mistakes or just a flat lack of effort. Shore's SHG, Malkin steps up and shoots one wide, which will almost always lead to an odd-man break if no one covers the point. Shore's second goal, the entire ****ing team, including Sid, got outplayed by Jesse friggin Winchester. Kulikov's goal was a goofy one that I fault Fleury for. No way should that have gotten back by him off the boards. Huberdeau's goal was thanks to a Crosby turnover and Letang flailing around on the ice, and the last goal was just a softy.

None of those goals really made me think that the system was failing. It mostly resulted from mental gaffes and a complete lack of effort.

 

[SEALBound]

Florida always gives the Pens fits for some reason. Just one of those games... it happens. The ship, most assuredly, is not sinking.

It's just like when the Titanic hit the iceberg. Ship can't sink...this team can't fail. But when everyone figured it out...it was too late.

You're the guy who walked the deck and mocked the lifeboats.

 

[drpepper]

Maybe it's just the eye test then. I didn't really think (without looking in to it to be honest) that crosby was getting any substantial increase in production when out there with Geno.

My argument isn't so much based off where Geno is playing, it's based on my opinion that we could leverage our talent by splitting the two up by letting sid run the PP for the first 90 (or so) and sending Malkin out for the last 30 and continuing on against hopefully tired, or lesser defensive pairings. Or Malkin goes first the Sid follows up. Could be rotated as the game progresses.

It is hard to judge whether they might be more effective apart especially looking at Crosby's numbers, but they have been productive. I think the question would be: could they be more productive? My first choice would be to move Letang off the unit and see what happens.

It would be nice if the second powerplay unit had more production. I think having Nisky and Maatta out for the second power play with Jokinen, Sutter, and Megna or Bennett when healthy might be interesting.

 

[IcedCapp]

I agree with the current players Megna should be there over Kobasew, Pyatt, and for me Jokinen.

I don't agree that line combinations won't help this team although I think roster is also an issue. Part of playing any team sport is about knowing your teammates and being able to anticipate their actions and decisions. Crosby and Kunitz work so well together because they have that type of knowledge and anticipation. Same with Malkin and Neal.

However, I do think that there are currently systematic issues that need to be addressed including team defense including backchecking, puck possession, and transition from defense to offense which would make the team better regardless of roster or lines.

I think there are systematic (systemic?) issues with the Penguins, but I do think many of those issues would be fixed if players' jobs weren't guaranteed.

 

[turd]

It's just like when the Titanic hit the iceberg. Ship can't sink...this team can't fail. But when everyone figured it out...it was too late.

You're the guy who walked the deck and mocked the lifeboats.

No, I'm the guy who doesn't get worked up over some meaningless game in January.

 

[drpepper]

None of those goals really made me think that the system was failing. It mostly resulted from mental gaffes and a complete lack of effort.

It wasn't the goals that made me think the system failed. Instead, the Pens were unable to sustain any puck possession. Transition through the zones was horrible with too many turnovers. The Pens couldn't deal with the Panthers forecheck or play in the neutral zone. Once in the offensive zone, the Pens again failed to hold possession. The normal support from the defense at point or from pinching in seemed non-existent and the forecheck was ineffective. Finally, on the defensive side, the Pens forwards seemed lazy or ineffective on the backcheck and coverage of the Panthers was inconsistent. Some of those things directly contributed to goals; others just contributed to the loss.