Salary Cap: Pens Off Season Thread: Pre Free Agency Shenanigans!

[Zirakzigil]

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If only we had signed Vincent Trocheck…lol

2022-23 Season in Review: Evgeni Malkin

Offseason drama behind him, Evgeni Malkin showed he still has plenty left to give.

www.pensburgh.com

Granlund is not an active detriment, but he's not better than a league minimum player and he makes $5M. So the incremental $4M ($8M over 2 years) owed to Granlund is in fact a huge hindrance.

I think Dubas will wait until the last minute of the buyout period to buy him out, if that’s the case…I think he’s going to try to trade him first and that could happen at the draft, and that’s the smart move…no one should be looking for a buyout today lol

One thing that needs to change is the idea that we cannot hurt the feelings of the core group. I am sure that unity and good will were part of the reason why they won Stanley Cups in '09, '16 and '17, but we are no longer a winning team. And if Sidney Crosby still thinks this team can win a Cup next season, without a RADICAL departure in mentality, roster construction and attitude, then he is just flat wrong. He, Malkin and Letang can no longer lead this team to a Stanley Cup...without massive help. No, Kyle Dubas and Jason Spezza are not massive help. Bringing back Jason Zucker is not massive help. Keeping Bryan Rust, re-signing Brian Dumoulin and/or Tristan Jarry...not massive help.

Dubas did make reference to a new core group of FOUR did he not? So that is one positive to be sure. They have never needed help more than they do right now. So adding another top player to this group is not only a step in the right direction, it is absolutely essential. They also need some youth to step in/step up. Joseph can get better. I suppose O'Connor and Poehling may improve, but MORE is needed. Ty Smith might become an interesting player for us, and Owen Pickering may not need that much time to crack this roster. But more is needed there too.

Crosby and Malkin need more than what guys like Zucker, Rust and Rakell bring the table. Keep the latter if you want. Do not sign Zucker. The third guy is hopefully more of a third-line option moving forward (or traded). That is how this team is going to get better.

We don't know what Dubas and Crosby have discussed. But it simply cannot be a case where Crosby said he wants to win no matter the cost and Dubas said OK. You cannot keep doing that. THAT line of thinking led us to a non-playoff appearance because they could not win at home against a team that was trying to lose. If Crosby cannot see that this thing is broken, then he needs a TON of work in the field of general managing.

We gave him an offer. He chose to go to NYR and wasn't promised a 2C role here with Geno getting it.

Apparently him and Gallant had a pretty good relationship as well

Free agent class this year is crap. Better off just signing Zucker depending on what his ask is. Bunting is going to fleece a team who starts overbidding.

Click to read more...

 

[HandshakeLine]

lol this team is going to look almost entirely the same

ready for another exciting season of watching jeff carter suck out loud!

 

[ChaosAgent]

Like @Jag68Sid87, this team is way too unity/continuity focused for a group that hasn't escaped Round 1 in 6 years. Shakeups shouldn't be off the table. Throw Bryan Rust under the bus a little in private or public. Don't bring back Dumoulin (please no). Take Jake off of PP1 if it's sucking.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah, I think people who expect Bunting to be anything more than what healthy Zucker was are gonna be in for disappointment. I would rather get Bunting than roll the dice on Zucker remaining healthy, personally, but I don't think it'd a dramatic difference there.

I have no idea how they reshape the 3rd line to be what Sully wants, get a scoring winger for Geno (ideally with more offensive punch than Rust, Zucker, Rakell, Bunting or Barbashev), figure out their starting goalie situation, and decide whether they have the money/desire to get a top-4 LD on top of it all.

Good luck to Dubas & Co. Dude signed on for a job that's doomed to fail until the era's over, then he gets the relief of being able to navigate probably a decade of awful rebuild.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Rust @ 5.1 is such a non-issue for me that it's so not worth it to try to hardball him into waiving. He's worked with both Sid and Geno at times and if we have real players on the 3rd line he would be fine there too.

 

[SEALBound]

I get that perspective, but I go back to this:



There is a strong desire for NHL teams to make improvements this year despite the constraints of the cap and a weak UFA class. If Bryan Rust is available to a team, they're going to pursue him. Because while he may not be available to everyone, the teams he is available to will know that their competition is improving with other players.

I will agree with Emp that with Rust, the NMC is the driving factor but at the same time, you don't know unless you ask him. If you are getting a lot of calls on the guy, you at least make the ask because maybe he wants out? Tough to say really but I imagine he exercises his right to refuse.

This tweet thought brings up a couple interesting points. Yes, the FA class is awful. So here are a couple extra thoughts on what that may mean:
1. As pointed out, it may make the trade market slightly better especially come the second week of July when teams miss out on the names they wanted. This could make the market for Granlund and even a guy like Rutta a little better. But that means we needed to have gotten our guy in FA. So two things to consider, while it might make guys easier to move (from our perspective with Granlund) it could also raise prices for the good, young players.
2. It could make 1:1 swaps more palatable. Salaries and contracts may not match precisely but you get the guy that's available.
3. With Granlund, it may help or hurt...you may be able to dump him and get the cap space. If a team needs him, you may get a minor piece back or you may have to pay a minor piece to move him. That may depend on how FA goes. It's a double-edged sword for us. If we go get the guys we want - Bunting, Barbashev, Brown, etc - then teams now we need to move Granlund. So we lose leverage.

With Granlund, you have these basic options: Buy out, hockey trade, pay to move (or get minimal assets back). I think there comes a point where you have to look at the trade market to see who can swap him for and then make a decision of whether or not the player coming back is better than a player you can sign in FA and then buyout Granlund. Just AS AN EX.AM.PLE - Granlund for Joel Armia vs buyout Granlund and use the $4mil to sign Bunting. Or sending out a pick to Chicago for them to take him. So there's definitely a point where Dubas, Sully, and Spezza have to sit down and look at options.

I still think if Zucker is willing to sign reasonably, you do it. Then you deal with Granlund as the means to bring in a Bunting/Barbashev/etc.

I would even entertain moving a guy like Rutta to and using Dumo's money to bring in a solid LD. Then run POJ/Smith/Rudwedel/Freidman/etc as your 5/6/7. There comes a point when you have to make concessions and roll with the youth so you can bolster other areas.

Jake-Sid-Rakell
Zucker-Malkin-Rust
Bunting-Kampf-Brown
DOC-Poehling-Nylander
Carter (see if someone will take him...)

Klingberg-Letang
Pettersson-Petry
POJ-Smith
Rudwedel-Freidman

Andersen-CDS

About 500K in space there with 8D and 13F. And 13F is a $3.125 Carter. Grandlund was sent to Arizona for a 24 3rd.

 

[SEALBound]

Was also thinking through some trades.

Carter+Granlund for Kevin Hayes @ $6.5mil
Carter+Granlund+2024 2nd for Shea Weber
Carter+Granlund+2024 3rd for Blake Wheeler

 

[AuroraBorealis]

If we get Bunting...

The good news: He's a super effective shit disturber
The bad news: He'll REALLY put your PK to work

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Rust @ 5.1 is such a non-issue for me that it's so not worth it to try to hardball him into waiving. He's worked with both Sid and Geno at times and if we have real players on the 3rd line he would be fine there too.

F YEAH

 

[Pens x]

The narrative is changing so much; the fan base is welcoming mediocrity with open arms.

Rust wasn’t that bad last year
Re-sign Zucker - the free agency class sucks
Granlund can be moved easily

Uhhhhh, what???? Dubas said our top six is fine!

 

[Zirakzigil]

I think Bunting is going to get 6x6 and it will be an ugly contract from day 1. Rather sign Zucker to a 3 year deal around what hes making now.

 

[Turin]

lol this team is going to look almost entirely the same

ready for another exciting season of watching jeff carter suck out loud!

Sorry why are we coming to this conclusion 1 day into the offseason?

 

[Gurglesons]

Would make sense for us. Teddy Bluegerish type player.

 

[Josey Wales]

View attachment 718514

Would make sense for us. Teddy Bluegerish type player.

Just no to Bluegerish type player

 

[Randy Butternubs]

watching jeff carter suck out loud!

I think that's called 'ASMR'?

 

[SEALBound]

View attachment 718514

Would make sense for us. Teddy Bluegerish type player.

Makes a lot of sense. Have the Dubas connection as well. Pretty easy to see Kampf and Bunting signed. Both fit massive holes for us.

Have Kampf, Poehling, Carter, DOC/Granlund (maybe) as bottom 6 centers is nice.

 

[chethejet]

sullivan has to get off his high horse here and Dubas has to be the voice for what the Pens do. Get bigger more grit and end the smurf crap. But actually even massively disappointed with the TDL last year under Hextall's insane deal, Pens can get in the hunt with a couple smart moves.

Jarry is out. His health is just to much risk here. DOC has to get a little bigger/stronger but he brings that workman like effort to the PK and LW. I really like Poehling and think he can be a nice player with size and speed. So buyot Granlund, get a goalie, add a physical LD. Move Petry to Detroit for a nice pick. sign a younger RD with some edge to his game. Go after Soucy to bring that element to the D as well. Maybe take some risk on Timmons who I like at the draft but GMJR screwed that with is trade. Helath is a issue of course but Dubas had him in Toronto so he knows whats what. Love to get the younger RD from the Rangers with the Petry pick.

 

[Turin]

Kampf was really good for Toronto in the playoffs. Way better than Blueger ever was for Pittsburgh.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I have been a clear advocate for Kampf but I’d vomit if they gave him a $3.5 million AAV deal.

He makes a ton of sense but he’s much more of a fringe 3C/4C than a 3C. That shouldn’t cost nearly as much as $3.5 million a year.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Sorry why are we coming to this conclusion 1 day into the offseason?

Because I have no faith in anyone that works for any NHL organization and I have yet to have been proven wrong there?

Anyhow, dying to hear the scintilating fanfic about all the daring moves we're going to make though!

 

[Turin]

Because I have no faith in anyone that works for any NHL organization and I have yet to have been proven wrong there?

Anyhow, dying to hear the scintilating fanfic about all the daring moves we're going to make though!

What does that even mean

 

[AuroraBorealis]

For once the player we're targeting would get similar usage here as he got with his previous team, so we can make a fair projection.
Kampf may not score a lot of points, but he's an excellent shutdown guy. Enjoy trying to score a lot getting 81.5% D-zone starts, like he got last year.

Wish they'd aim higher, if this is the 3C replacement. This isn't a guy that can handle 2C during a Sid/Geno injury.
Still, he'd make L3 much stingier, which would be refreshing. His takeaway count doubled his giveaways last year.
It's also worth noting that he never takes penalties. Coming off a 8 PIM season in which he played every game. Combined with his analytics, that's effective defending.

This actually addresses a need, so I can't hate on this too much. We need viable PK'ers and L3 not to hemorrhage goals against.
Just hope the price is reasonable.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm going to preface this with I hate this idea, but I have a feeling that the Penguins might want to keep Granlund in a 3rd line role but try to surround him with complementary pieces to make a defensive 3rd line work (to the best it can). He has had success in a defensive line before, his best seasons were when he was playing with Zucker and Koivu while getting 40% offensive zone starts. I have also seen Leafs fans say that Dubas had wanted to acquire Granlund in the past.

If you could recreate the mix somewhat of that Zucker-Koivu-Granlund line, could that work? I'm skeptical but I have a feeling they might try that. Something like Frederic-Kampf-Granlund or Comtois-Kampf-Granlund could fit that.

Also while Granlund massively failed the eye test and production while with the Penguins, he actually wasn't bad analytically with them. He finished with a +2.10 xGF%rel driven by really strong defensive metrics in his 20 games with the Penguins, that's not bad.

I hate the idea because keeping Granlund likely prevents the Penguins from being able to replace Zucker with a top-6 guy, so any sort of decision to keep him is one I hate. But I could imagine a fairly realistic scenario where the Penguins want to give Granlund a bit more time to see what he can do in a 3rd line role.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I'm going to preface this with I hate this idea, but I have a feeling that the Penguins might want to keep Granlund in a 3rd line role but try to surround him with complementary pieces to make a defensive 3rd line work (to the best it can). He has had success in a defensive line before, his best seasons were when he was playing with Zucker and Koivu while getting 40% offensive zone starts. I have also seen Leafs fans say that Dubas had wanted to acquire Granlund in the past.

If you could recreate the mix somewhat of that Zucker-Koivu-Granlund line, could that work? I'm skeptical but I have a feeling they might try that. Something like Frederic-Kampf-Granlund or Comtois-Kampf-Granlund could fit that.

Also while Granlund massively failed the eye test and production while with the Penguins, he actually wasn't bad analytically with them. He finished with a +2.10 xGF%rel driven by really strong defensive metrics in his 20 games with the Penguins, that's not bad.

I hate the idea because keeping Granlund likely prevents the Penguins from being able to replace Zucker with a top-6 guy, so any sort of decision to keep him is one I hate. But I could imagine a fairly realistic scenario where the Penguins want to give Granlund a bit more time to see what he can do in a 3rd line role.

If that line ended up as a net positive in +/- on the year then I'd take it. You can't ask for much more if you're gonna use them like slaves.
Let the top 6 - who are given the privileged usage - earn the surplus goal differential needed to get this team into the playoffs.
The bottom 6 just have to hold serve.

 

[Peat]

I'm with Empo. Kampf at 3.5m is ouchies. I don't think what's he done at Toronto merits a 2m bump from his last UFA deal. I'd like the player here but you're asking him to be a better player than he's been at 3.5m.

Also @Empoleon8771 that idea of putting Kampf and Granlund together is putting together one of the worst shooting lines in the NHL. That third guy would have to be one hell of a shooter to rescue them. I don't see that ending well, particularly for a 3rd line that most cost about 10m.