GDT: Pens @ Leafs | Friday, Nov. 11 (7:00 PM EST) SBA| Serendipity meets Groundhog Day... @ColePens Deal with the Devil

[eXile3]

Well, he's not up anymore.

He was sent down when Friedman was recalled.

Right. But he played very little while up was my point and question as to the reason.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

You'll get six years at $6.25 million AAV and you'll like it.

Well when you have a chance to lock up a proven winner like Tristan Jarry as one of the highest paid players at his position in the league it's not just something you DON'T do. He made the All Star game, BFD. TWICE.

I think it’s crazy that Sullivan has turned Kapanen into this shell of a player. Also wonder if Kapanen comes out as having some type of personal situation. Games don’t just fall off that hard.

I tend to agree. I mean I hard agree with the first point and very much wonder about the latter.

Kap isn't a total product of things he cannot control. In the end he just isn't that good. But something seems really off about his situation the last year or so.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think it’s crazy that Sullivan has turned Kapanen into this shell of a player. Also wonder if Kapanen comes out as having some type of personal situation. Games don’t just fall off that hard.

Got bit by a spider.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Got bit by a spider.

Fell into the lion enclosure at the zoo and is actually secretly dead.

 

[eXile3]

I think it’s crazy that Sullivan has turned Kapanen into this shell of a player. Also wonder if Kapanen comes out as having some type of personal situation. Games don’t just fall off that hard.

Did he or was Kaps 16% shooting % in 20-21 not a realistic pace for a player like him?

We were warned from the onset by Leaf fans that he didn’t have the IQ to play in the top 6. I get they weren’t exactly subjective but there appears to be some truth in that.

It seems weird to me to blame the coach for a players failures when said player has been given plenty of opportunity.

 

[Ugene Magic]

@Ugene Magic my deal was what got us 3 Cups in this era! And a lot of pain afterward.

Now this weekend I make a second deal as I'm getting married. Will not be watching ANY penguins this weekend.

Make sure to have a Captain and coke... Hold it high in the air and say UM made me do it.

Congrats once again... Have a great time!

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

All joking aside I just think Kap's nothing special. He's a fast skater (not a great skater) and that's that. People have entirely too lofty expectations of him, myself included, based largely on his last name and draft pedigree of being a former 1st rounder.

When a nothing special player loses every single ounce of confidence they've ever had because of extended piss-poor play, well, it's pretty awful.

Still, again, it blows my mind that he got a second year. It felt like signing him was supposed to be a vote of confidence like "Hey, listen, had a rough year. Let's work through this thing, show us what you got" type deal. To give him that second year? Just can't follow the logic.

 

[Gurglesons]

Did he or was Kaps 16% shooting % in 20-21 not a realistic pace for a player like him?

We were warned from the onset by Leaf fans that he didn’t have the IQ to play in the top 6. I get they weren’t exactly subjective but there appears to be some truth in that.

It seems weird to me to blame the coach for a players failures when said player has been given plenty of opportunity.

Has he been given plenty of opportunity? His usage seems like a “well I have to play him there” similar to Rakell and Malkin.

It never seems like Sullivan does much to put these players in positions to succeed because he’s focusing his time on getting GCR or some defensive match up line on the ice.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Mistakes get made. What's crazy is continuing to pile cash and ice time on the guy.

I meant Poulin. You can find a player his level in free agency for 800K.
Hope we deal our 1st this year if we're in a playoff position at the deadline. The late 1sts are usually trash.

 

[Zbynek]

Has he been given plenty of opportunity? His usage seems like a “well I have to play him there” similar to Rakell and Malkin.

It never seems like Sullivan does much to put these players in positions to succeed because he’s focusing his time on getting GCR or some defensive match up line on the ice.

Kap got an entire season's worth of looks on our top-6 last year. Put up Archibald numbers despite missing no games.

Dude has 8 goals in his last 85 games.

It's not Sullivan man.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I dunno. To my eyes Kapanen has fallen far and hard compared to where he was when he got here. Of course some of that is simply because he started hot and receded to the norm but I mean... he wasn't at this level of ineptitude at any point in Toronto, either. At least that I saw... and I would try to pay attention when I could since he was originally a Penguins draftee.

I'm not saying that Sullivan has wrecked the guy. I just don't think this organization has done him many favors. Which is weird because they stuck their neck out to bring him back on board. You'd think there would be a lot of communication between the staff and FO, there.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Kap got an entire season's worth of looks on our top-6 last year. Put up Archibald numbers despite missing no games.

Dude has 8 goals in his last 85 games.

It's not Sullivan man.

Correct. It's not Sullivan.
It's him refusing to skate to the best of his ability and being a pouter like Brassard.

 

[Gurglesons]

Kap got an entire season's worth of looks on our top-6 last year. Put up Archibald numbers despite missing no games.

Dude has 8 goals in his last 85 games.

It's not Sullivan man.

Guess we will see. And by top six do you mean with Evan Rodrigues and Jeff Carter playing top six minutes becuase we had so many forward injuries?

I’m not a huge Kapanen mark, but he seems like another Sprong for Sully. His mind was made up before we acquired him.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

You guys do understand of course that most things are not simply binary and more often than not are a combination of many different factors?

 

[Zbynek]

Guess we will see. And by top six do you mean with Evan Rodrigues and Jeff Carter playing top six minutes becuase we had so many forward injuries?

For the ice time he got, 11 goals is pathetic man.

Speaking of Evan Rodrigues dude's got 5 goals in 12 games for Colorado.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Has he been given plenty of opportunity? His usage seems like a “well I have to play him there” similar to Rakell and Malkin.

It never seems like Sullivan does much to put these players in positions to succeed because he’s focusing his time on getting GCR or some defensive match up line on the ice.

Kap played himself out of a scoring line role, imo. He had a great stretch when he first got here, alongside Geno who was playing likely at the highest level of hockey he'll ever play again.

I get that we all are sick and tired of Sully, but Kap's a mess all on his own. There's not putting player(s) in a position to succeed, then there's the player(s) not deserving to just be hand-fed opportunities they don't deserve either.

I don't think Sullivan took some unfaceted gem and just dumpstered his game. I think Kap was largely overrated and had a couple of hot streaks that made people perk up and raise their eyebrows, but he's just a pretty mediocre 3rd liner with permanent prospect brain.

 

[Gurglesons]

Kap played himself out of a scoring line role, imo. He had a great stretch when he first got here, alongside Geno who was playing likely at the highest level of hockey he'll ever play again.

I get that we all are sick and tired of Sully, but Kap's a mess all on his own. There's not putting player(s) in a position to succeed, then there's the player(s) not deserving to just be hand-fed opportunities they don't deserve either.

I don't think Sullivan took some unfaceted gem and just dumpstered his game. I think Kap was largely overrated and had a couple of hot streaks that made people perk up and raise their eyebrows, but he's just a pretty mediocre 3rd liner with permanent prospect brain.

I'm not really sure he's "pretty mediocre". He's definitely a middle six forward, but what Sullivan has turned him into is "pretty mediocre". He honestly looks slower every year.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm not really sure he's "pretty mediocre". He's definitely a middle six forward, but what Sullivan has turned him into is "pretty mediocre". He honestly looks slower every year.

Is it Sullivan or is it a streaky 3rd liner who has lost all confidence and is playing like shit because he's a mess upstairs? I think Kap's pretty much the definition of mediocre; ordinary, adequate but unexceptional.

Not everything that possibly goes wrong has to default to Sullivan. He can't pop onto Kap's back like the ghost of Jesus and guide his hands while on the ice. "I was with you the whole time, Kappy."

Dude's a Mighty Ducks character. Just hilariously inept except for one strong trait to his game; his skating speed. I could understand giving him another season to see if he's really hot, coiled shit or if he was just in a rut, but two is asinine imo.

 

[Gurglesons]

Is it Sullivan or is it a streaky 3rd liner who has lost all confidence and is playing like shit because he's a mess upstairs? I think Kap's pretty much the definition of mediocre; ordinary, adequate but unexceptional.

Not everything that possibly goes wrong has to default to Sullivan. He can't pop onto Kap's back like the ghost of Jesus and guide his hands while on the ice. "I was with you the whole time, Kappy."

Dude's a Mighty Ducks character. Just hilariously inept except for one strong trait to his game; his skating speed. I could understand giving him another season to see if he's really hot, coiled shit or if he was just in a rut, but two is asinine imo.

I'm not saying Kapanen is without blame. But much like every offensively oriented forward we've had since 15-16 Sullivan ain't doing them any favors.

Rakell is on his best pace in years and is currently being used the least amount of time overall he has since 16-17.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm not saying Kapanen is without blame. But much like every offensively oriented forward we've had since 15-16 Sullivan ain't doing them any favors.

To play devil's advocate; Jake came outta nowhere and flourished under Sully, Phil had career seasons under Sully, Rust went from being pretty universally thought of as a bottom-6 energy guy to turning into a near PPG player under Sully.

Maybe Kap just, y'know, kinda sucks. /shrug

-edit- Also, f*** you for making me defend Sully even *a little bit*, dude.

 

[Gurglesons]

To play devil's advocate; Jake came outta nowhere and flourished under Sully, Phil had career seasons under Sully, Rust went from being pretty universally thought of as a bottom-6 energy guy to turning into a near PPG player under Sully.

Maybe Kap just, y'know, kinda sucks. /shrug

-edit- Also, f*** you for making me defend Sully even *a little bit*, dude.

Rust isn't an offensive forward.

Jake and Kessel seem to exist despite Sullivan's best efforts. Phil especially.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Rust isn't an offensive forward.

Jake and Kessel seem to exist despite Sullivan's best efforts. Phil especially.

Rust isn't an offensive forward? The hell? Dude's got 164pts in his last 184 games going back through the 2019-20 season. He's not some finesse guy, but he's absolutely a scoring line, offensive-minded player. He lost his buzzsaw, defensively capable stuff a long time ago.

I think you're just spiralin' here, bud. You've convinced yourself that Sully has had some catastrophic influence on Kap's game and that it can't just simply be a case of a streaky 3rd liner who was never anything special just having his confidence cratered and needing a change of scenery. Kap's not getting "any favors" because he's not deserving of any. Just like nobody prospects like Poulin or DOC or Zoho not getting the red carpet rolled out for them, because, well, they just kinda suck.

I've wanted Sully gone for years, and dread having the guy in charge of shaping the games of the next crop of foundation players this team ends up with. I think his TOI distribution on a team as old and with as many miles on their bodies as this one sucks, as does his line combos and refusal to reward guys for strong play with upward mobility. But I don't think he's having some nefarious effect on Kap's game. I think the dude's a pretty whatever player and we've all got brainpoison and sunk cost fallacy is at work because of a number of factors; he was a Penguins draft pick, JR paid an absurd price to reacquire him all things considered, and he had a hot streak one time a couple years ago so people think he's something more than he is.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Has he been given plenty of opportunity? His usage seems like a “well I have to play him there” similar to Rakell and Malkin.

It never seems like Sullivan does much to put these players in positions to succeed because he’s focusing his time on getting GCR or some defensive match up line on the ice.

Before Rakell came along, and Zucker being out you might have had a point. Kap was relegated to 3rd line duties and didn't see PK time.

Now you cannot justify him being anywhere in the top 6.

 

[SEALBound]

Correct. It's not Sullivan.
It's him refusing to skate to the best of his ability and being a pouter like Brassard.

Actually, there do seem to be parallels between the two. Problem for Kapanen is, it's not like an injury is weighing him back.

 

[The Old Master]

Rust isn't an offensive forward.

Jake and Kessel seem to exist despite Sullivan's best efforts. Phil especially.

yeah! jake and phil were already guys that could think the game. and didn't need any teaching in that area. with kappy it's all in his head and sully doesn't have a clue how to fix it.