Post-Game Talk: Pens Ducks Halloween horror show

[Andy99]

Nah, I think the argument for me is "we should have kept Yager" more than "McG should have stayed up". But either way, I don't think Sullivan is the right coach to have for a young player like McG or Yager who is going to need some patience and guidance.

I mean if Yager’s comp is McCann, right now McG’s comp is a slower DOC lol…I don’t get that trade at all and I like McG…I haven’t seen anything from him yet that screams top six option…I really don’t get that trade…I don’t think McG is a player who is surely going to be better than Yager, who at least could be a center in the NHL…

 

[Pancakes]

I dunno, if you're going to get a guy like McG that needs to be y'know, developed, I don't know if this is a good place to do it. WB/S is for sure a place that is a better spot for him to learn than the big club right now, but again, when was the last time we actually succeeded in developing a prospect with warts into something decent?

I mean if you're worried about that then you don't believe that our development system can help anyone and at that point does it matter if we have Yager or McGroarty? If you don't trust the system to develop guys then you're basically saying that our only hope to get NHL-caliber players is to get guys who can't miss (aka lottery picks).

Yager and Mcg both need work so if the concern is whether or not our system can develop them then that concern doesn't go away if Yager is still here instead of Mcg.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't think Yager would be in the NHL lineup either, and in the games he might've gotten, I suspect he'd also have looked like a kid learning the ropes after a sizeable jump from NCAA/Junior to the speed and explosiveness of NHL hockey. /shrug

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I mean if you're worried about that then you don't believe that our development system can help anyone and at that point does it matter if we have Yager or McGroarty? If you don't trust the system to develop guys then you're basically saying that our only hope to get NHL-caliber players is to get guys who can't miss (aka lottery picks).

Yager and Mcg both need work so if the concern is whether or not our system can develop them then that concern doesn't go away if Yager is still here instead of Mcg.

I mean, kinda? This coach has shown he has no interest or ability in coaching young guys and playing them in positions to take advantage of their games' strengths.

This team's just gonna be in suspended animation until Sullivan's gone. They're not gonna be competing, and they won't be rebuilding/developing. Dude needs gone the moment this season's over.

 

[Pancakes]

I mean, kinda? This coach has shown he has no interest or ability in coaching young guys and playing them in positions to take advantage of their games' strengths.

This team's just gonna be in suspended animation until Sullivan's gone. They're not gonna be competing, and they won't be rebuilding/developing. Dude needs gone the moment this season's over.

I think the problem is bigger than Sullivan. I want him gone badly of course but until this org stops pretending that they're a playoff team they're going to keep having Sullivan (or whoever is behind the bench) throwing vets over the boards trying to squeeze out standings-points.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

FWIW I think it's a bit of a toss up as to who is gonna have a bigger impact at the NHL level. They have drastically different styles and bring drastically different things to a line. I think it's entirely fine to think Yager's gonna be the better prospect, and I think it's fine to think McG's gonna end up better. Neither is a building block guy imo.

But I think the absolute truth here is that both are doomed to struggle or bust under a Sullivan-led team.

I think the problem is bigger than Sullivan. I want him gone badly of course but until this org stops pretending that they're a playoff team they're going to keep having Sullivan (or whoever is behind the bench) throwing vets over the boards trying to squeeze out standings-points.

I think Sully is the easier problem, by miles, but FSG has shown to be a hell of an issue themselves.

Bleak shit.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean if you're worried about that then you don't believe that our development system can help anyone and at that point does it matter if we have Yager or McGroarty? If you don't trust the system to develop guys then you're basically saying that our only hope to get NHL-caliber players is to get guys who can't miss (aka lottery picks).

Yager and Mcg both need work so if the concern is whether or not our system can develop them then that concern doesn't go away if Yager is still here instead of Mcg.

I mean, Yager's still in the WHL so he's not an NHL team's problem. McG on the other hand is in the AHL, and we have to now develop him. I just mostly question trying to get a player that's "closer" to being NHL ready if we're going to be doing a teardown in 2 seasons anyway. If we're NOT doing a teardown, then our organization is making even worse decisions than our most cynical shitposts.

 

[Pancakes]

FWIW I think it's a bit of a toss up as to who is gonna have a bigger impact at the NHL level. They have drastically different styles and bring drastically different things to a line. I think it's entirely fine to think Yager's gonna be the better prospect, and I think it's fine to think McG's gonna end up better. Neither is a building block guy imo.

But I think the absolute truth here is that both are doomed to struggle or bust under a Sullivan-led team.


I think Sully is the easier problem, by miles, but FSG has shown to be a hell of an issue themselves.

Bleak shit.

Fire him but unless that firing is paired with a variation in mentality then the next coach is going to come in and think hmm we have Sidney Crosby I need to try to get this team into the playoffs and will coach accordingly.

Dubas needs to fire Sullivan and make it clear in no uncertain terms to the next coach that he is being brought in to develop young players and that making the playoffs is secondary to improving the long term prospects of the team.

I mean, Yager's still in the WHL so he's not an NHL team's problem. McG on the other hand is in the AHL, and we have to now develop him. I just mostly question trying to get a player that's "closer" to being NHL ready if we're going to be doing a teardown in 2 seasons anyway. If we're NOT doing a teardown, then our organization is making even worse decisions than our most cynical shitposts.

Idk I think it's a no brainer to trade a weaker prospect for a better one. I don't particularly mind the age difference between them because honestly neither of these players is likely to be a difference maker on the next core of Penguins players.

By the time the Penguins get good again Mcgroarty is probably going to be like 29 lol. It's a long ways off.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Fire him but unless that firing is paired with a variation in mentality then the next coach is going to come in and think hmm we have Sidney Crosby I need to try to get this team into the playoffs and will coach accordingly.

Dubas needs to fire Sullivan and make it clear in no uncertain terms to the next coach that he is being brought in to develop young players and that making the playoffs is secondary to improving the long term prospects of the team.

I want Sully fired regardless. But yeah, it's of utmost importance that the next people brought in, not only as HC but throughout the org, have a track record of working well with young players and, probably most importantly, hasn't had their brain rotted by the NHL coaching fraternity that just eventually grinds everyone down to "zero event hockey good, play 'em to a draw" mentality.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

You have to remember that these are human beings, not robots (not yet, anyway). McGroarty had a strong performance with Eller and Puljujarvi in preseason, which probably got him a spot on the roster to begin. He plays three games, and then sent down.

It is not surprising that he is off to a slow start in the A.

I want Sully fired regardless. But yeah, it's of utmost importance that the next people brought in, not only as HC but throughout the org, have a track record of working well with young players and, probably most importantly, hasn't had their brain rotted by the NHL coaching fraternity that just eventually grinds everyone down to "zero event hockey good, play 'em to a draw" mentality.

If you are no good with young people, why in the world are you choosing coach as a profession???

This is about ego. Coaches get big egos as they get older and more experienced. Sullivan's has gotten so big, it is a miracle his head fits inside the doors at PPG Paints Arena.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

Ah yes, Bryan "I don't need to do anything now that Coach Friend is my Coach!" Rust, Tom "I'm not in the NHL anymore" Kuhnhackl, and Connor "Nobody will have me on their team" Sheary.

Sorry, does this refute my point?

I can't wait to hear this in 3-4 years when our young players are still stuck in the AHL for the Mark Jankowski / Noel Acciari / Matt Nieto types.

That’s a massive assumption and honestly not in line with Sullivan has done in his tenure here.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

You have to remember that these are human beings, not robots (not yet, anyway). McGroarty had a strong performance with Eller and Puljujarvi in preseason, which probably got him a spot on the roster to begin. He plays three games, and then sent down.

It is not surprising that he is off to a slow start in the A.


If you are no good with young people, why in the world are you choosing coach as a profession???

This is about ego. Coaches get big egos as they get older and more experienced. Sullivan's has gotten so big, it is a miracle his head fits inside the doors at PPG Paints Arena.

Yeah. I think this organization's rotten Sullivan's brain. He lucked into being in the right place at the right time for the back to backs. He inherited a roster full of HHOF players with a massive chip on their shoulder and just getting out from under the stupid, stifling style of Johnston was enough to give them a huge adrenaline boost.

After it became time to put his mark on the franchise and steer the ship for real, he settled into the same bullshit routine most NHL coaches do. The issue is that this team's heaped nothing but immeasurable positive reinforcement on him, regardless of results, for like a decade. I still cannot understand how or why he's so beloved, across multiple ownership groups, FOs, etc.

 

[Pancakes]

Yeah. I think this organization's rotten Sullivan's brain. He lucked into being in the right place at the right time for the back to backs. He inherited a roster full of HHOF players with a massive chip on their shoulder and just getting out from under the stupid, stifling style of Johnston was enough to give them a huge adrenaline boost.

After it became time to put his mark on the franchise and steer the ship for real, he settled into the same bullshit routine most NHL coaches do. The issue is that this team's heaped nothing but immeasurable positive reinforcement on him, regardless of results, for like a decade. I still cannot understand how or why he's so beloved, across multiple ownership groups, FOs, etc.

I get why JR and Mario loved him. He helped them win two cups.

I do not understand at all why Hextall and Dubas are so loyal to him. He's done nothing but lose for them.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Sorry, does this refute my point?


That’s a massive assumption and honestly not in line with Sullivan has done in his tenure here.

I'm not sure what your point was beyond "Sullivan coached some guys, two of whom were only flashes in the pan in the NHL and one who has looked terrible for seasons but gets tons of ice time because of his connections with the coach", to be quite honest.

For the sake of argument and being charitable here, who are Sullivan's major successes at developing outside of Rust?

 

[Gurglesons]

That’s a massive assumption and honestly not in line with Sullivan has done in his tenure here.

Ah yes. The Mike Sullivan actually plays tons of youth argument..