Rumor: Pens, Crosby closing in on extension

[Turin]

I have a hard time taking your argument even remotely seriously with the bolded.

Nah bro a 34 year old Jagr outscored an 18 year old rookie Crosby. It's over.

Is that graphic supposed to support a pro-Jagr argument?
Dr. Recchi, Breakaway Pass Oates, Turgeon, Fleury, and an aging Gretzky?

If Lemieux was healthy Jagr would not have more than 1 Art Ross.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Is that graphic supposed to support a pro-Jagr argument?
Dr. Recchi, Breakaway Pass Oates, Turgeon, Fleury, and an aging Gretzky?

Jagr was one of the best point-producers ever. Arguably better than Crosby in that specific facet of the game. Cherry picking names and ignoring others doesn't really have much weight.

If you want to claim Corsby is better, then there's way better arguments than trying to diminish Jagr's accomplishments.

If we're going by the actual 90s:

And then the 2010s for Crosby I guess:

 

[Empoleon8771]

Jagr was one of the best point-producers ever. Arguably better than Crosby in that specific facet of the game. Cherry picking names and ignoring others doesn't really have much weight.

If you want to claim Corsby is better, then there's way better arguments than trying to diminish Jagr's accomplishments.

If we're going by the actual 90s:
View attachment 893988

And then the 2010s for Crosby I guess:
View attachment 893989

Yeah, Jagr was never a "better point producer" than Crosby. Crosby matched him (938 points in 707 games for Crosby, 928 points in 697 games for Jagr) while playing in a substantially lower scoring era.

Jagr had more individual awards because his competition was way shittier than peak Ovi and Malkin.

 

[KevinRedkey]

View attachment 893998

Yeah, Jagr was never a "better point producer" than Crosby. Crosby matched him (938 points in 707 games for Crosby, 928 points in 697 games for Jagr) while playing in a substantially lower scoring era.

Jagr had more individual awards because his competition was way shittier than peak Ovi and Malkin.

I thought this was a logical discussion and not a cherry picking event... but when in Rome...

Not to mention your 11yr decade... lol

 

[Empoleon8771]

I thought this was a logical discussion and not a cherry picking event... but when in Rome...

View attachment 894002

How was that a "cherrypicking event"? I compared Crosby's first ~700 games to Jagr's first ~700 games.

Arbitrarily looking at it like the 90s vs the 2010s is way more "cherrypicking". You're completely throwing out what Crosby did in the 2005-2009 window by doing that and looking at what he did from mid 20s to mid 30s.

 

[Sol]

Loyalty kills

 

[Empoleon8771]

Let's extend it out to ~1000 games instead:

Jagr never "outproduced" Crosby when you look at a comparable window for their games played. He at best matched Crosby while playing in a substantially higher scoring era.

Jagr basically matched Crosby's best while Jagr fell off dramatically harder than Crosby did in his 30s.

 

[StreetHawk]

Call me crazy but I think 322 is achievable if he wants it. Probably takes 5 years, and he can coast into being a 40ish point 3C by the end

If the term of 3 year extension is correct, that is basically 81 points per season. He'd probably have to get another season in the high 80's or a low 90's so that knocks down what he'd need in the final year to low 70's. Then the 2nd and 3rd year, if one can be in the mid 80's it drops year 3 down a bit to under 80.

But, that also requires good health. Last couple of times he's missed big chunks of the year were in 21/22 for 13 games and about 30 before covid shut things down in 19/20 season.

So, if he missed say 20 or so games over these next 4, he probably doesn't surpass Jagr for #2.

 

[DesertPenguin]

If the term of 3 year extension is correct, that is basically 81 points per season. He'd probably have to get another season in the high 80's or a low 90's so that knocks down what he'd need in the final year to low 70's. Then the 2nd and 3rd year, if one can be in the mid 80's it drops year 3 down a bit to under 80.

But, that also requires good health. Last couple of times he's missed big chunks of the year were in 21/22 for 13 games and about 30 before covid shut things down in 19/20 season.

So, if he missed say 20 or so games over these next 4, he probably doesn't surpass Jagr for #2.

Yeah I think it's going to be tough to maintain an 80 point pace for 4 more seasons, but if he signs for a one year victory lap I think he gets there.

 

[HuGort]

Seems to be taking a long while

 

[Zbynek]

Sid's the overall better player, but it's not like Jagr and his domination of his own era is far behind at all. Same tier of player to me - both are legends and all timers. I guess Sid will rank higher on the all-time list.

Mostly it's that C to W comparisons are pretty dumb.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Jagr was one of the best point-producers ever. Arguably better than Crosby in that specific facet of the game. Cherry picking names and ignoring others doesn't really have much weight.

If you want to claim Corsby is better, then there's way better arguments than trying to diminish Jagr's accomplishments.

If we're going by the actual 90s:
View attachment 893988

And then the 2010s for Crosby I guess:
View attachment 893989

Why are you omitting a large chunk of Crosby's best seasons?

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Why are you omitting a large chunk of Crosby's best seasons?

Because that poster operates in bad faith

 

[KevinRedkey]

Why are you omitting a large chunk of Crosby's best seasons?

You have to go back and see the context of a few replies, but it's basically a post about decades. I just replied using decades.

It's really as a simple as that.

 

[IcedCapp]

Jagr had more individual awards because his competition was way shittier than peak Ovi and Malkin.

And also because award voters just randomly decided that either 1) having Malkin on his team meant he couldn't win awards (and vice versa) or that despite being the obvious best player in the world and putting up a ridiculous amount of points, he shouldn't win the Hart in the shortened season

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

Nah bro a 34 year old Jagr outscored an 18 year old rookie Crosby. It's over.


If Lemieux was healthy Jagr would not have more than 1 Art Ross.

But he'd probably have 200 more points.

 

[Score08]

You know he can be traded at any point right? Especially if he wants out. If 3 rings are not enough and he still has fire burning, what would stop a trade from happening?

Fenway sports group would stop that trade, no way they’re letting that happen. He’s the only reason people go to pens games at this point. They’re not letting their cash cow walk and watch their investment tank in value.

 

[crazy8888]

Fenway sports group would stop that trade, no way they’re letting that happen. He’s the only reason people go to pens games at this point. They’re not letting their cash cow walk and watch their investment tank in value.

Lol, not letting? They can certainly try to do everything they can to keep him but at the end of the day he alone decides what works better for him.

Pitts has 5 cups and 2 back to back cups within the last 10 years alone. Cups bring in fans. With or without Crosby this team has fans even throughout bad times.

With all of this being said, it would surprise me to see him leave for any reason.

 

[Paper]

Yeah, Jagr was never a "better point producer" than Crosby. Crosby matched him (938 points in 707 games for Crosby, 928 points in 697 games for Jagr) while playing in a substantially lower scoring era.

Why are you pretending like he played in the 80s? Dude's prime was in the aptly named dead-puck era. He put up 127 points in 1999 when the GPG average was 2.63. The lowest GPG average Crosby has seen in this substantially lower scoring era was 2.71...

 

[Evilo]

Why are you pretending like he played in the 80s? Dude's prime was in the aptly named dead-puck era. He put up 127 points in 1999 when the GPG average was 2.63. The lowest GPG average Crosby has seen in this substantially lower scoring era was 2.71...

Jagr's 120+ season in the dead pick era is one of the best seasons ever in NHL history. Crosby is the bigger player all time but he never touched those few years where Jagr was unstoppable on a one man team.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Why are you pretending like he played in the 80s? Dude's prime was in the aptly named dead-puck era. He put up 127 points in 1999 when the GPG average was 2.63. The lowest GPG average Crosby has seen in this substantially lower scoring era was 2.71...

No it wasn't? The dead puck era was like 2001-2004 while Jagr's prime was in 1996-2000.

In the actual dead puck era, Jagr was an 80 point guy as evidence by what he did in Washington in the early 2000s.

 

[Paper]

No it wasn't? The dead puck era was like 2001-2004 while Jagr's prime was in 1996-2000.

In the actual dead puck era, Jagr was an 80 point guy as evidence by what he did in Washington in the early 2000s.

Dead puck era started somewhere in the mid 90s with the trap and left wing lock, maybe as late as 1997 you can argue but certainly not 2001. You're making shit up.

 

[eXile3]

There have been multiple dead puck periods. The goals per game between 00-01, 99-00, are actually higher than a lot of seasons between 2012 and 2017.

 

[Paper]

There have been multiple dead puck periods. The goals per game between 00-01, 99-00, are actually higher than a lot of seasons between 2012 and 2017.

When people talk about the dead puck era they are talking about the rather abrupt change from the high flying 80s to the defensive systems of the 90s. It's not just when the scoring was lowest. (Though I agree you can call others DPE 2.0 or what have you).

I think many would agree that the 1995 Devil win and the quite stark drop in goal scoring was the beginning with the defensive systems being utilized and especially stymieing of offense especially in the neutral zone. Some will push the date back to 1997, but never 2001. And for what it's worth the wikipedia on the NHL lists the dead puck era from lockout to lockout.

In any case, his argument that Jagr' was in a substantially higher scoring era doesn't seem to have much merit.

 

[Score08]

Lol, not letting? They can certainly try to do everything they can to keep him but at the end of the day he alone decides what works better for him.

Pitts has 5 cups and 2 back to back cups within the last 10 years alone. Cups bring in fans. With or without Crosby this team has fans even throughout bad times.

With all of this being said, it would surprise me to see him leave for any reason.

I only meant they would give him a blank check to keep their investment relevant. Without Crosby that team is a pimple on the ass of the nhl