Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Hey here's another way to frame it: Pulju was outplaying nearly 9M dollars-worth of the payroll.

Nicccccccce. But hey those third round picks, tho.

 

[Ryder71]

To obsess over a player the stature of a curtain jerker like JP IS DOWNRIGHT ABSURD.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

This is a good point and something that has stuck in my craw, lately.

Lizard was playing some terrific hockey for weeks and in general all year. His reward? Skate between Acciari and Nieto on L4.

*fart noises*

Even if Sully wanted to keep him on L4 for shutdown purposes (which he shouldn't be) Lizotte should still be getting double-shifted until he's playing 16+ minutes. How is he averaging 11?
Per minute played, it's fair to say he's been our best player, straight up. Excellent defensively on top of giant production relative to ice time, with shit linemates. It's remarkable.

To obsess over a player the stature of a curtain jerker like JP IS DOWNRIGHT ABSURD.

They missed the playoffs by a few points the last 2 years because of decisions like this.
He is definitely one of our 12 best Forwards.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Even if Sully wanted to keep him on L4 for shutdown purposes (which he shouldn't be) Lizotte should still be getting double-shifted until he's playing 16+ minutes. How is he averaging 11?
Per minute played, it's fair to say he's been our best player, straight up. Excellent defensively on top of giant production relative to ice time, with shit linemates. It's remarkable.

Frankly at this point he should be getting shots at the middle six regularly or not a full-time feature on L3.

I mean why TF not? What's the holdup? What else should he need to prove? We are approaching the halfway mark and he is consistently a contributor. Hell he was moved WHILE he was still in the middle of producing/playing very well, right? What's the reason? It's like the coach just wants to f*** with certain guys when they start getting into a groove.

This is what I mean... there is no rhyme or reason half the time. It's all personal bias and gut instinct bullshit. Merit/chemistry/common sense can take a walk on this team.

 

[Ryder71]

Even if Sully wanted to keep him on L4 for shutdown purposes (which he shouldn't be) Lizotte should still be getting double-shifted until he's playing 16+ minutes. How is he averaging 11?
Per minute played, it's fair to say he's been our best player, straight up. Excellent defensively on top of giant production relative to ice time, with shit linemates. It's remarkable.

Lizotte wasn't going to keep that level of play up though. I think something they should do that would have a bigger impact is to put Tomasino in the top six.

 

[Pancakes]

Exactly. People clamoring to get that rebuild on RIGHT NOW are extremely misguided or at least haven't considered this, somehow.

Any rebuild with this entrenched, spoiled, lazy coaching staff is a farce from the word go. I have no idea why we are still giving any of these guys the benefit of the doubt. Sullivan isn't even working terribly hard to hide his biases, anymore. Why would he? Consequences? lol

It's also another weird example of where the Pens' priorities are.

They're clearly not trying to contend based on the Guentzel deal last year and the off season Dubas had yet Sullivan is coaching like this is a team that is trying to make the playoffs.

The Pens dont have a ton of young players knocking on the door to make the lineup right now but I bet if they did those players would be getting stonewalled by Matt Nieto and Noel Acciari.

 

[Ryder71]

They missed the playoffs by a few points the last 2 years because of decisions like this.
He is definitely one of our 12 best Forwards.

Wait a minute, are you holding out hope this team makes the playoffs?

 

[IcedCapp]

HEY WHADDA YA MEAN BY THAT?!?

nothing, just that we're EASILY STARTLED

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Wait a minute, are you holding out hope this team makes the playoffs?

Playoffs aren't that big of a stretch anymore. They're .513. Defense and goaltending trending upwards. Special teams top 10 in both.

Every decision matters for a bubble team.
For example if we used someone not useless in Harkins stead last year for those 45 games, that's playoffs right there.

 

[Pancakes]

nothing, just that we're EASILY STARTLED

Listen, IC. Don't you think you can just swoop in here after not posting all the time and THEN TELL US WHATS WHAT!!!!

....sorry. It is good to see you back, IC. A voice of reason in the mass of insanity that the rest of us represent with Pens hf.

 

[IcedCapp]

It's also another weird example of where the Pens' priorities are.

They're clearly not trying to contend based on the Guentzel deal last year and the off season Dubas had yet Sullivan is coaching like this is a team that is trying to make the playoffs.

The Pens dont have a ton of young players knocking on the door to make the lineup right now but I bet if they did those players would be getting stonewalled by Matt Nieto and Noel Acciari.

So, just to be clear: i think this is a dumb move. I agree with someone earlier who said it probably doesn't actually mean much in the grand scheme of things, but JP played better than people who are still here and I'd much rather he still be here than some others.

But to me, the most baffling thing is: he was being benched for a reason. I'm almost positive that was made clear, the coach said it and JP acknowledged it (if i'm making this up, someone let me know). But then he was scratched forever. Why wouldn't he get at least a game to see if he learned his lesson or whatever? It's not like the bottom-6 has been SO f***ING GOOD that they couldn't give someone a night off to see if this kid got the point or not

Listen, IC. Don't you think you can just swoop in here after not posting all the time and THEN TELL US WHATS WHAT!!!!

....sorry. It is good to see you back, IC. A voice of reason in the mass of insanity that the rest of us represent with Pens hf.

who the HELL do you think you are, calling me a 'voice of reason.' You've just managed to piss off the entire board, the people who hate me because i'm a crazy dumbass moron and the people who love me... because I'm a crazy dumbass moron. I hope you're proud of yourself.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Lizotte wasn't going to keep that level of play up though. I think something they should do that would have a bigger impact is to put Tomasino in the top six.

He won't, but he will average out to be a player deserving of like 15 minutes a night most likely. He's our best defensive Forward, so that's a strong base.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Pulju did not deserve this. He is better than at least 3 forwards playing right now.

 

[SEALBound]

The step back, objective take:

Puljujarvi was not that great for us this year and at this point, it's safe to assume he's the 14th forward for us with Hayes being the 13th. He's a decent bottom 6 player that can play on the 3rd or 4th line wing but at the end of the day, his presence or non-presence is likely irrelevant to outcome of this season. If we need someone past Hayes, it presents an opportunity for a good WBS guy to get some much needed time in the NHL.

The emotional, all-in take:

It is negligent for Dubas to waive Puljujarvi with Nieto on this roster. Puljujarvi was just as, if not better than the majority of bottom 6'ers this year, including crowd favorites like DOC. He should be in over Nieto, Acciari, Hayes, DOC, and Beauvillier. He's young, has good speed, and is defensively responsible - all things this roster needs.

Looking at the list of other players that have been waivered recently, I tend to think he clears but my gut says he does get claimed. Ultimately, I don't think this affects us that much. I think why I may be upset, and why others may be upset, is because while he's a replacement level bottom 6 player, he's OUR replacement level bottom 6 player. Performance between him and Nieto is irrelevant. I like JP and I don't like Nieto, thus I am upset. Sorta...but not really.

 

[IcedCapp]

The step back, objective take:

Puljujarvi was not that great for us this year and at this point, it's safe to assume he's the 14th forward for us with Hayes being the 13th. He's a decent bottom 6 player that can play on the 3rd or 4th line wing but at the end of the day, his presence or non-presence is likely irrelevant to outcome of this season. If we need someone past Hayes, it presents an opportunity for a good WBS guy to get some much needed time in the NHL.

The emotional, all-in take:

It is negligent for Dubas to waive Puljujarvi with Nieto on this roster. Puljujarvi was just as, if not better than the majority of bottom 6'ers this year, including crowd favorites like DOC. He should be in over Nieto, Acciari, Hayes, DOC, and Beauvillier. He's young, has good speed, and is defensively responsible - all things this roster needs.

Looking at the list of other players that have been waivered recently, I tend to think he clears but my gut says he does get claimed. Ultimately, I don't think this affects us that much. I think why I may be upset, and why others may be upset, is because while he's a replacement level bottom 6 player, he's OUR replacement level bottom 6 player. Performance between him and Nieto is irrelevant. I like JP and I don't like Nieto, thus I am upset. Sorta...but not really.

I think you can be rational, acknowledge his flaws, acknowledge his limited impact on the season, and still say he deserved more playtime and more rope than he got. It doesn't matter how good your 'attention to detail' is if you have no measurable skill or talent (look, i understand everyone in the NHL has some skill/talent, but you get my point)

 

[Ryder71]

Playoffs aren't that big of a stretch anymore. They're .513. Defense and goaltending trending upwards. Special teams top 10 in both.

Every decision matters for a bubble team.
For example if we used someone not useless in Harkins stead last year for those 45 games, that's playoffs right there.

We're working under a very different premise. You see, making the playoffs is not what we should be doing. It emboldens the core, which in turn emboldens Sullivan. Which likely lengthens his stay here. Who wants that? Also, It pushes us further down the totem pole in getting a high end player through the draft. There's nothing good to come out of it.

That mentality just leaves us going nowhere fast. That's not what this team should be doing at all.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Kreider has 11 points this year. O'Connor has 10 points.

Kreider only has 3 5v5 points in 31 games this year.

Kreider's had a poor 31 game run due to some back issues, which is the only reason he'd even be available. He also had 39 goals last year, which is one less than Guentzel's career high.

Wingers with his size, speed, and goal scoring are exceptionally rare, and his contract was considered a great one a few short months ago. Not to mention, he plays the type of game that wouldn't get neutered by Sully.

Considering his body of work vs. the small sample size of underperforming, I'd take the bet he'll be worth his contract the rest of the way, and then some.

 

[Peat]

The step back, objective take:

Puljujarvi was not that great for us this year and at this point, it's safe to assume he's the 14th forward for us with Hayes being the 13th. He's a decent bottom 6 player that can play on the 3rd or 4th line wing but at the end of the day, his presence or non-presence is likely irrelevant to outcome of this season. If we need someone past Hayes, it presents an opportunity for a good WBS guy to get some much needed time in the NHL.

He was 6th in p/60 and 5th in xGF% on the team. He was one of very few forwards having a decent season in a frankly dogshit bottom six. I disagree about it being irrelevant and I wonder what the hell the story is here. If nothing else, I'd have thought "feed him minutes and flip him for picks" was a really obvious one. Although the fact he went to waivers suggests the NHL isn't falling over themselves to give him a go as a whole, which again makes me think what the hell is the story.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

He was 6th in p/60 and 5th in xGF% on the team. He was one of very few forwards having a decent season in a frankly dogshit bottom six. I disagree about it being irrelevant and I wonder what the hell the story is here. If nothing else, I'd have thought "feed him minutes and flip him for picks" was a really obvious one. Although the fact he went to waivers suggests the NHL isn't falling over themselves to give him a go as a whole, which again makes me think what the hell is the story.

If a reason never avails itself I'm just going to assume what I always have... Mike Sullivan is often irrational, ruled by bias/emotion and is stunningly bad or at the very least wildly uneven at player assessment/development.

 

[IcedCapp]

I don't have an intense hatred for Sullivan like others (i'm not criticizing this hatred, btw, just saying that I don't necessarily share it), and I think you'd see the criticisms we have for Sully echoed about every other coach in the league in those coach's respect team's boards, but no coach in any sport has ever been untouchable to this degree. In fact, the one seemingly universal truth across all sports is that every coach has an expiration date, yet, for some reason, here Mike Sullivan sits, like a 60 year old jar of canned corn, slowly leaching his botulism into our bloodstream unceasingly.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I WILL say that much of Sullivan's sins are the same as most of the rest of the league's coaches. Which... that's the NHL for ya -- regressive and brain damaged.

But yeah the difference seems to be the Teflon nature of this team's.

 

[IcedCapp]

I WILL say that much of Sullivan's sins are the same as most of the rest of the league's coaches. Which... that's the NHL for ya -- regressive and brain damaged.

But yeah the difference seems to be the Teflon nature of this team's.

I think the real question here, given how Bylsma and Sullivan took forever to jettison, is what the f*** Mike Johnston did to get canned so quick. Did he steal Sid's parking spot? Use Mario's private toilet? Eat JR's general tso's? Because being a bad/stale coach doesn't seem like a fireable offense in these parts.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think the real question here, given how Bylsma and Sullivan took forever to jettison, is what the f*** Mike Johnston did to get canned so quick. Did he steal Sid's parking spot? Use Mario's private toilet? Eat JR's general tso's? Because being a bad/stale coach doesn't seem like a fireable offense in these parts.

I have to chalk it up to the GM at the time. Who clearly wasn't the type to just sit around and wait... for good or ill (I wish the current weenus of a GM along with the last one would have taken SOME notes in that regard).

I think the team also got what they did not expect. MJ's resume at the time implied "up-tempo, attacking, skill-oriented" but was much more "pass me the eye-bleach, please" in practice.

Finally the Mario & co. ownership group had their warts but they seemed to understand the writing on the wall when they saw it. I have no idea WTF FSG is doing, here.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think the real question here, given how Bylsma and Sullivan took forever to jettison, is what the f*** Mike Johnston did to get canned so quick. Did he steal Sid's parking spot? Use Mario's private toilet? Eat JR's general tso's? Because being a bad/stale coach doesn't seem like a fireable offense in these parts.

I firmly believe the core wanted him fired so he was fired, just like the core doesn't want Sullivan to be fired so he's not getting fired.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

Not necessarily going to gripe on losing a player of JP’s caliber for free.

Will most certainly gripe on the philosophy this team has. All things being equal, with the state of our pipeline and age on the team, the younger player should always be the one kept.

Would love to hear the reasoning this team had for putting JP on waivers over Nieto/Acciari. 2 over 30 plugs who simply aren’t providing much outside of eating PK minutes. They should never prioritize these players over youth that has even the slightest amount of potential.

But here we are….