Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah, Petts is clearly a "doesn't make sense to re-sign and he's gonna walk for nothing, so trade him" guy. I also don't know if he's really as good as the like year and a half stretch of his best hockey made him look. He was so whatever before that people were trying to give him away to clear cap prior to the great Hextall blueline reshuffle, and he's been pretty dogshit for the majority of this year.

I wish he was having a better season though, if for no other reason than his trade value.

 

[Ugene Magic]

The Penguins could win every game from now until then trade deadline. Even then, I think it would be a really foolish move not to trade MP.

Outside of trading Graves first. There's nothing like double downing on losing good players and keeping the bad.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah, Petts is clearly a "doesn't make sense to re-sign and he's gonna walk for nothing, so trade him" guy. I also don't know if he's really as good as the like year and a half stretch of his best hockey made him look. He was so whatever before that people were trying to give him away to clear cap prior to the great Hextall blueline reshuffle, and he's been pretty dogshit for the majority of this year.

I wish he was having a better season though, if for no other reason than his trade value.

MP has always kinda seemed like the Scandinavian lite lite beer version of Paul Martin... with a tapeworm.

 

[Malkinstheman]

I bet they trade MP and acquire a shittier more physical LD and spin it as wanting a different fit on the blueline. Wouldnt look good to be purely selling if theyre in the playoff hunt.

 

[SEALBound]

I bet they trade MP and acquire a shittier more physical LD and spin it as wanting a different fit on the blueline. Wouldnt look good to be purely selling if theyre in the playoff hunt.

That's part of "managing" the roster. Dubas has a tough task at hand honestly trying to strike the balance. I would imagine a MP trade looks a bit like the Guentzel trade from last year. Or, in a separate move, someone else is brought in.

I wouldn't have any problem if they spent a 4th on a guy like Nashville did last year with Beauvillier and Zucker. Be great if it was a guy like Parssinen but I could also be okay with a UFA like Hall.

 

[Peat]

MP has done some good things here. I'm not trying to crap on the guy.

But like... yeah... what would be the point in keeping him really? He is the definition of luxury piece. He doesn't do enough to be essential. He isn't bad enough to be a hindrance. He's like that last piece some team adds to like their third pairing to have some crazy depth on their blueline. I honestly don't think this team loses a ton with him on the way out even if we are to actually believe the Penguins are back on track as a playoff team.

Something based on MP for some punch up front or using whatever MP returns to help facilitate that would be preferable.

Hard disagree. Pettersson's taken a bit of a step back but the solid both-ways top 4 dman he was here the last two seasons is critical. I think it's critical to any team, but particularly this team where the top two dmen are beautiful unhinged lunatics who needs someone to pick up the pieces. Guys like Martin, Dumo, Pettersson, hopefully Pickering - can't do it without them. Can't do it without more help up front too, but it's like choosing which leg to lose.

Not saying we should keep him. He's 30, he's about to get a pay bump, even if this team was a hot contender you'd have to think about letting him walk at the end of the season. But letting him go is a blow if they think they'll turn it around this season.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Hard disagree. Pettersson's taken a bit of a step back but the solid both-ways top 4 dman he was here the last two seasons is critical. I think it's critical to any team, but particularly this team where the top two dmen are beautiful unhinged lunatics who needs someone to pick up the pieces. Guys like Martin, Dumo, Pettersson, hopefully Pickering - can't do it without them. Can't do it without more help up front too, but it's like choosing which leg to lose.

Not saying we should keep him. He's 30, he's about to get a pay bump, even if this team was a hot contender you'd have to think about letting him walk at the end of the season. But letting him go is a blow if they think they'll turn it around this season.

I don't disagree that they are integral to any serious team. As unsexy a job as guys like Dumo have done for this team in the past... it's fairly critical when you are trying to play an offensive style of game at pace. Not only do you need players like that to help cover up the warts but they also have to be able to keep up... both in regards to skating and at least ENOUGH so offensively... particularly in transition.

But I'm just saying that tossing a Graves+ deal at the guy at this juncture would be batshit insane. Even if we are to pretend that this team is capable of anything... they should probably concentrate more on the whole "couldn't put the puck into a whole-ass ocean" problem first. Yeah... great... they can clown on truly awful teams. Against any team that has any kind of structure, discipline and speed they are utterly cooked.

MP is fine. Pickering can do a decent enough impression for now and likely a whole lot more moving forward. If that seems premature it probably is but the Penguins are in no position to be paying the MPs of the world 5+ million a year at term when they have whatever a Cody Glass is playing on L2 IMO. I don't want them to put themselves in another Jarry-esque "wElL ThErE jUsT wErEn'T aNy OtHeR oPtIoNs!1!" situation. Not to mention I have no wish for them to add to their already gross list of disaster contracts and MP at that price w/ term feels like it would be approaching that status.

EDIT: It sucks that Graves is a thing otherwise maybe this is a different conversation. But he does. Thanks, Kyle.

 

[orby]

I would bet on a Pettersson trade that parallels last year's Guentzel trade.

 

[SEALBound]

Hard disagree. Pettersson's taken a bit of a step back but the solid both-ways top 4 dman he was here the last two seasons is critical. I think it's critical to any team, but particularly this team where the top two dmen are beautiful unhinged lunatics who needs someone to pick up the pieces. Guys like Martin, Dumo, Pettersson, hopefully Pickering - can't do it without them. Can't do it without more help up front too, but it's like choosing which leg to lose.

Not saying we should keep him. He's 30, he's about to get a pay bump, even if this team was a hot contender you'd have to think about letting him walk at the end of the season. But letting him go is a blow if they think they'll turn it around this season.

Which is why I think there will be plenty of teams that want him.

 

[Peat]

I don't disagree that they are integral to any serious team. As unsexy a job as guys like Dumo have done for this team in the past... it's fairly critical when you are trying to play an offensive style of game at pace. Not only do you need players like that to help cover up the warts but they also have to be able to keep up... both in regards to skating and at least ENOUGH so offensively... particularly in transition.

But I'm just saying that tossing a Graves+ deal at the guy at this juncture would be batshit insane. Even if we are to pretend that this team is capable of anything... they should probably concentrate more on the whole "couldn't put the puck into a whole-ass ocean" problem first. Yeah... great... they can clown on truly awful teams. Against any team that has any kind of structure, discipline and speed they are utterly cooked.

MP is fine. Pickering can do a decent enough impression for now and likely a whole lot more moving forward. If that seems premature it probably is but the Penguins are in no position to be paying the MPs of the world 5+ million a year at term when they have whatever a Cody Glass is playing on L2 IMO. I don't want them to put themselves in another Jarry-esque "wElL ThErE jUsT wErEn'T aNy OtHeR oPtIoNs!1!" situation. Not to mention I have no wish for them to add to their already gross list of disaster contracts and MP at that price w/ term feels like it would be approaching that status.

I think we're mainly on the same page.

But I will say that they need two and that right now, this team has more troubles defending than it does attacking and the recent run has been against some good teams. The attack does still need a lot of help - and I'd argue for better forwards to make things work defensively as well as offensively - but I don't think this is a case where goal scoring is the first priority.

Actually, I'd say there's three priorities, all of them about equal

Help for Malkin (pushing down guys)
Help for whichever of Karlsson/Letang doesn't have Pickering
And a goalie who doesn't shit his pants

If they could actually do all three things, they'd be a playoff calibre team imo. Not necessarily a good one, but there.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think we're mainly on the same page.

But I will say that they need two and that right now, this team has more troubles defending than it does attacking and the recent run has been against some good teams. The attack does still need a lot of help - and I'd argue for better forwards to make things work defensively as well as offensively - but I don't think this is a case where goal scoring is the first priority.

Actually, I'd say there's three priorities, all of them about equal

Help for Malkin (pushing down guys)
Help for whichever of Karlsson/Letang doesn't have Pickering
And a goalie who doesn't shit his pants

If they could actually do all three things, they'd be a playoff calibre team imo. Not necessarily a good one, but there.

I don't really have any notes haha... all accurate.

Goalies shit their pantaloons though, Peat. It's what they do. You can pay them 10, 11 or 12 million dollars and you MIGHT get them to do it less. But I'm in no mood to figure out the Jarry situation only for them to do it all over again. Though you aren't wrong that they need a guy that can at least be SOMEWHAT steady and not a total basket case waiting to utterly unravel and have to be sent to the AHL for weeks on a conditioning stint to handle his PTSD or whatever. I'm not even looking for "terrific" here... just... maybe not a guy who has made his calling card letting in the first shot of every other game he starts.

 

[Peat]

I don't really have any notes haha... all accurate.

Goalies shit their pantaloons though, Peat. It's what they do. You can pay them 10, 11 or 12 million dollars and you MIGHT get them to do it less. But I'm in no mood to figure out the Jarry situation only for them to do it all over again. Though you aren't wrong that they need a guy that can at least be SOMEWHAT steady and not a total basket case waiting to utterly unravel and have to be sent to the AHL for weeks on a conditioning stint to handle his PTSD or whatever. I'm not even looking for "terrific" here... just... maybe not a guy who has made his calling card letting in the first shot of every other game he starts.

The weird thing is that Jarry seems absolutely fine handling all the defensive lapses, he just can handle the easy ones.

I suspect this is the easiest one though. If things were really going, they'd find a way to get Blomqvist back up here.

 

[Ryder71]

Which is why I think there will be plenty of teams that want him.

Also, it's a down year in the market regarding available and impending rearguards that might be offered up. That certainly plays in our favor. I can almost guarantee a 2hd rounder will be coming back as a key piece +.

 

[Ryder71]

I would bet on a Pettersson trade that parallels last year's Guentzel trade.

I think we'll be looking at two key pieces in a MP deal. Our farm system was very depleted this time last year. It's in a better place now. My guess is (and beyond cap considerations) MP will bring back a 2hd rounder and a fairly significant prospect.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

He has been hit or miss, really. Lots of good moves, but also some bad. Tonight, Hayes and Graves look like they will both be scratched. That is invaluable cap space we cannot have back. AND, his head coach is not helping his job at all. In fact, Sullivan has made Dubas's plan that much harder to implement.

But Hayes was a disastrous move that was never going to pan out. Beauvillier was a bad signing. And I still think he MUST trade a goaltender.

The next move Dubas makes might be the defining one for this season (and possibly beyond).

What did we get back for Hayes, a couple picks?

Yeah they took on Hayes and got a 2nd and 3rd out of it.

I think considering where this team is that's a perfectly reasonable return.

Gotta keep in mind he has an extra year still.
So it's 7M cap space for a 2nd and 3rd. I can live with that.

So we initially got him for a free 2nd.
Blues needed there 2nd back for the offer sheets.

We got a later 2nd and 3rd for the 2nd and 5th.

Hayes for 2 years at 3.5 million got us a 2nd and 3rd for a 5th. I won't fault Dubas taking that deal on. That's what we should do is take contracts on for assets.

It does suck he is scratched but I hope next year with 1 year left on the deal he can be traded maybe for that 5th back at the deadline.

Hague from Vegas?

Good luck prying that from Vegas

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I won't quote anyone but MP is a player you keep to win.

He's going to get 6 to 7 million for 6 to 8 years on a deal.

It sucks we have to trade him he is a top 90 defensemen in the NHL.

If we traded for JT Miller and kept Guentzel he's a player we would keep.
I'm even hesitant trading him away. If we could agree on a 6x8 deal I'd want to sign that unfortunately we do need that prospect or 1st.

I just hope we get a good return.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Hard disagree. Pettersson's taken a bit of a step back but the solid both-ways top 4 dman he was here the last two seasons is critical. I think it's critical to any team, but particularly this team where the top two dmen are beautiful unhinged lunatics who needs someone to pick up the pieces. Guys like Martin, Dumo, Pettersson, hopefully Pickering - can't do it without them. Can't do it without more help up front too, but it's like choosing which leg to lose.

Not saying we should keep him. He's 30, he's about to get a pay bump, even if this team was a hot contender you'd have to think about letting him walk at the end of the season. But letting him go is a blow if they think they'll turn it around this season.

I agree with you entirely here but I do wonder how long Karlsson will be here for you to have to plan on having a D partner like that for him.

I think they should just go with POJ-Letang and Pickering-Karlsson in the near term, but I'd personally be trying really hard to trade Karlsson next off-season after his signing bonus.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I forget what I was doing specifically, but I was looking at hockey stats and came across Lias Andersson which is what sparked my question. Cozens might be a "dark-horse" candidate.


Former 1st rounders acquired by Kyle and on this roster:

Puljujarvi
Hayes
Beauvillier
Glass
Tomasino
Karlsson
POJ

Did I miss anyone?

I mostly just want someone who will play at or above their cap hit.
Bigger names are great, but they often come with stupid contracts and it hamstrings progress. That's not how you build contenders.
Like Cozens for example isn't worth it imo.

I like the bets on young, cheap guys like Tomasino.
Wish we got Robertson while his stock was low too.

 

[Peat]

I agree with you entirely here but I do wonder how long Karlsson will be here for you to have to plan on having a D partner like that for him.

I think they should just go with POJ-Letang and Pickering-Karlsson in the near term, but I'd personally be trying really hard to trade Karlsson next off-season after his signing bonus.

Burn that bridge when we get there but, right now, as things stand, if they're serious about having another shot while Sid is still here, I think a Karlsson trade that helps the team more than it hurts will be tricky to pull off. Trading Karlsson if you've accepted sucking is easy enough to do, but doing it while trying to win some games is less so.

And I suspect they're serious about trying it.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Byram?

Byram cost Buffalo Mittlestadt. I doubt they trade him for anything we'd be willing to part with.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Hague from Vegas?

That's an idea. Pending RFA they may not be able to keep. As the 2 seed in the west though, what do you offer them of value to move him instead of trading his RFA rights in the off season?

Thinking out loud, it would need to be a middle 6 forward out playing their cap hit making equal to or less than Hague. If DOC were clicking on the trajectory we had hoped for him then maybe, but DOC is trash right now. No one else really fits that description, except maybe Lizotte, and damn do I like Lizotte.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Burn that bridge when we get there but, right now, as things stand, if they're serious about having another shot while Sid is still here, I think a Karlsson trade that helps the team more than it hurts will be tricky to pull off. Trading Karlsson if you've accepted sucking is easy enough to do, but doing it while trying to win some games is less so.

And I suspect they're serious about trying it.

Yeah I think it's more likely that they keep Karlsson next year, run it back one more time and then trade him in the 2026 off-season since Malkin is presumably retiring after next year. That said, I'd be trying to trade him as soon as you can get good value for him without retaining a ton of money.

 

[Peat]

Yeah I think it's more likely that they keep Karlsson next year, run it back one more time and then trade him in the 2026 off-season since Malkin is presumably retiring after next year. That said, I'd be trying to trade him as soon as you can get good value for him without retaining a ton of money.

There's the rub though. If Karlsson is playing at the standard where you can get good value for him without retaining a ton of money, or is playing like the guy they were hoping to get in other words, then all of a sudden you're back in business. Which is basically what's happened these last 13 games or so. Karlsson's hit the standard at which he looks like a menace, Penguins win a bunch despite not being very good.

So if that happens, how can Dubas sell and claim the idea is retooling unless he lands the deal of deals?

We'll see what their actual goal is. But I think that option mightn't be on the menu.

 

[The Old Master]

I bet they trade MP and acquire a shittier more physical LD and spin it as wanting a different fit on the blueline. Wouldnt look good to be purely selling if theyre in the playoff hunt.

they have a lot of players that need moved even without moving petts. granted, we wont get much for them but they still need moved.

 

[McGroarty2]

That's an idea. Pending RFA they may not be able to keep. As the 2 seed in the west though, what do you offer them of value to move him instead of trading his RFA rights in the off season?

Thinking out loud, it would need to be a middle 6 forward out playing their cap hit making equal to or less than Hague. If DOC were clicking on the trajectory we had hoped for him then maybe, but DOC is trash right now. No one else really fits that description, except maybe Lizotte, and damn do I like Lizotte.

No idea. Someone else on here mentioned him as a potential target before, that's where I got the idea.