Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[BusinessGoose]

Well, sid hasn't looked very energetic

But that aside, it's not like he's making $12mil and THAT'S why we signed fifteen $3.5mil a year 4th liners to ensure we suck

He's not the reason the GM built a crap team

And Dubas isn't cutthroat enough to have traded him for picks this year anyway

 

[OtherThingsILike]

This team has looked horrendous the majority of the year with Crosby playing.

If they only option actually was this team circles the drain of mediocrity for the foreseeable future, or Crosby leaves, I’ll pack his bags.

People act like Sid is some idiot who thought he was still playing on a contender. He’s played on good teams. He knows this one sucks. He still signed an extension.

Supposedly, Dubas told Crosby that the team would be better this season before he re-signed. I'm not sure that I believe that, because when you're paid to take cap dumps, you're not getting a better team as a result, but that is supposedly what he said.

'Let's make Sidney Crosby miserable enough that he demands a trade so we can tank properly' is not actually a viable path to future success.

Buuuuuuuullshit. They *refuse* to tank while Sid's around.

Which is the correct thing to do.

It's entirely possible to tank with Sid around. This team almost ended up picking like 7th last season if not for a late hot streak, and that was with half a year of Jake and Sid playing as well as anybody his age ever has.

You trade Petts, Rust, Rakell, and EK by next October and you're in the running for McKenna. Doesn't matter if Sid's still around. I mean, I don't think they'll have the balls to do it, but it should be done.

It does matter if Sid's still around. Because if we do that, he won't be.

Well, sid hasn't looked very energetic

But that aside, it's not like he's making $12mil and THAT'S why we signed fifteen $3.5mil a year 4th liners to ensure we suck

He's not the reason the GM built a crap team

Correct. Father time being undefeated is the reason the team is crap.

 

[SomeDude]

Supposedly, Dubas told Crosby that the team would be better this season before he re-signed. I'm not sure that I believe that, because when you're paid to take cap dumps, you're not getting a better team as a result, but that is supposedly what he said.

'Let's make Sidney Crosby miserable enough that he demands a trade so we can tank properly' is not actually a viable path to future success.

Like I said, Sid isn’t dumb enough to not realize the situation when he re-upped. He isn’t going to get mad and demand a trade, he’s just going to keep playing like he always does.

I could see Dubas telling him that, not because it was a condition of Crosby staying, but because Dubas actually thought he could do that but forgot he’s pretty bad at his job.

 

[SEALBound]

No idea why this dipshit team isn't showcasing Puljujarvi either. Dubas, if he had a f***in' spine (or brain), should be telling Sullivan to get him in games and to try and inflate his value by playing him up the lineup or something.

Dude's been very good in the minimal opportunity he's gotten so far imo. A bright spot. But he's obviously not part of this coach/team's plans now or moving forward, so try and get something for him asap.

Sorry, Mikey, this means scratching one of your beloved losers.

I would imagine it has a lot more to do with "we are winning right now so don't touch anything". Wing injury, Puljujarvi is in. Center injury, Glass is in.

Now, if it's mid-Feb and we are out by 10pts, sure, then go showcase Puljujarvi. At the same time, I don't think he's a guy you need to showcase. He's on a super cheap expiring deal and film is available. No team is getting him to put him in a super elevated position. Like with Hoglander, you want a team to think "hey, he might be able to work in our top 6!" so it makes sense to play with him with Pettersson for a bit to pump up value and perception. Puljujarvi? Nah, I don't think that's necessary. You either want him as a bottom 6 depth piece or you don't. Cost is gonna be the same no matter what.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Correct. Father time being undefeated is the reason the team is crap.

That's weird because I swore that the team's best players were still the old ones.

This team is crap because it's been built and coached like crap for years. It was already an extremely flawed roster years ago and the entire philosophy post B2B has been head-scratching to say the least. Then this past year the GM tossed his hands up after one mostly-lame attempt and started doing Coyotes stuff. Now it's REALLY bad.

But the "aging out" narrative is largely an excuse. Obviously these guys are far from what they were but do we REALLY consider them the problem? Even now? That seems very hand-wavy and disingenuous. And it runs cover for much bigger issues.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Like I said, Sid isn’t dumb enough to not realize the situation when he re-upped. He isn’t going to get mad and demand a trade, he’s just going to keep playing like he always does.

I could see Dubas telling him that, not because it was a condition of Crosby staying, but because Dubas actually thought he could do that but forgot he’s pretty bad at his job.

The players either genuinely believe that they can turn things around, or they're lying when they say that in interviews.

That's weird because I swore that the team's best players were still the old ones.

They are, which is a massive and pretty much insurmoutable impediment when it comes to actually winning anything.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

They are, which is a massive impediment when it comes to actually winning anything.

You're saying you couldn't win with two 70-90 point centers if the team was built correctly around them?

Completely disagree.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

You're saying you couldn't win with two 70-90 point centers if the team was built correctly around them?

Completely disagree.

Not if they're 35+ and the best players on the team.
You could win if you had at least one 100+ point winger in his 20s.

 

[Khelandros]

Well, Milbury was energetic, bold and had the will to ruin everything he touched.

I’d settle for someone who would just fire the damn coach right now.

Milbury lived in a time where owners were owners and basically had nothing to do with their teams, barring Jeremy Jacobs. He had the ability to do whatever he wanted whenever he wanted.

Today there are so many levels of micro management that approval to do things need to come through 3 floors to get approved.

We will probably never see again the free wheeling Milbury was allowed to do ever again.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Not if they're 35+ and the best players on the team.
You could win if you had at least one 100+ point winger in his 20s.

Are you worried about fatigue? Sid and Malkin were two of the team's most dominant players last year down the stretch. What's the issue?

I don't think you need a 100+ point wing in his 20s. There aren't many of those, you know. But yes they needed another top forward years ago to ease the burden. They opted for the Rusts, Raks, Buntings, Zuckers etc. of the league, instead and spent a boatload of cash to try to "boost the offense from the back end" with the savings. It was a big mistake.

 

[Gurglesons]

Not if they're 35+ and the best players on the team.
You could win if you had at least one 100+ point winger in his 20s.

I mean that's why Malkin, Letang and Crosby took less. So the team could build around them. Not pay 4.5 mil to a guy who sits on the bench.

 

[Khelandros]

Not if they're 35+ and the best players on the team.
You could win if you had at least one 100+ point winger in his 20s.

This roster says hello,

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Which is the correct thing to do.

Nah.

It does matter if Sid's still around. Because if we do that, he won't be.

Correct. Father time being undefeated is the reason the team is crap.

Sid's not gonna ask for a trade, he knows what kind of a state this team's in and that they're circling the drain. And if he did want out--Enjoy chasing a final Cup elsewhere. Better that than allowing him to continue rotting along with the rest of this organization. /shrug

The long-term health of the team is more important than this stagnant bullshit where the team's held hostage by Sid's desire to play in one final Olympics. People might not wanna hear that but it's the harsh reality. They're too dumb and too cowardly to even risk Sid getting upset so they'll remain petrified in suspended animation, turning what could be like a 5-6 year turnaround into like a decade just because.

It's why they haven't fired Sullivan despite years of failures. It's why they didn't trade Rust when his value was highest before re-signing him. It's why they ended up waiting until the TDL to move Jake instead of trading him that summer when he made it clear he wanted to test FA.

I like Sid. He's a genuine top-5 player all time imo, and seems like a really good person. But I do not give the slightest f*** if he gets pissed at the team for doing what needs to be done, or if he demands a trade out of town because of it. This team's been on a steep and steady decline since 2018. They're not different than the Sharks, Sens, Ducks, Sabres, etc. of the NHL anymore--Sid or not. It's time to grow a spine and turn the goddamn page. Sid will get over it or he won't.

 

[SomeDude]

The players either genuinely believe that they can turn things around, or they're lying when they say that in interviews.

They are lying, and the majority of professional athletes care a heck of a lot less about winning than most would expect.

Correct. Father time being undefeated is the reason the team is crap.

And yet other organizations have found a way to navigate remaining competitive with their old stars. It takes moving on from some of them via letting them walk (ie Stamkos) or them getting hurt (ie Bsckdtrom and Oshie)

Make no mistake, incompetent management is much more damaging than Father Time.

 

[SEALBound]

This roster says hello,

View attachment 939991

I mean, Lidstrom was an all-time #1dman but they still had Zetterburg, Datsyuk, and Franzen in their late 20s. Then a nice supporting cast of mid-to-early 20s - Hudler, Filppula, Helm, Kronwall.

Certainly not an apples to apples comparison with what we have now.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I mean, Lidstrom was an all-time #1dman but they still had Zetterburg, Datsyuk, and Franzen in their late 20s. Then a nice supporting cast of mid-to-early 20s - Hudler, Filppula, Helm, Kronwall.

Certainly not an apples to apples comparison with what we have now.

None of this is about what could be done, now. Dubas hammered that final nail this past offseason.

It's being irritated and a little sad about what WASN'T done and how obvious it should have been.

Nah.

Sid's not gonna ask for a trade, he knows what kind of a state this team's in and that they're circling the drain. And if he did want out--Enjoy chasing a final Cup elsewhere. Better that than allowing him to continue rotting along with the rest of this organization. /shrug

The long-term health of the team is more important than this stagnant bullshit where the team's held hostage by Sid's desire to play in one final Olympics. People might not wanna hear that but it's the harsh reality. They're too dumb and too cowardly to even risk Sid getting upset so they'll remain petrified in suspended animation, turning what could be like a 5-6 year turnaround into like a decade just because.

It's why they haven't fired Sullivan despite years of failures. It's why they didn't trade Rust when his value was highest before re-signing him. It's why they ended up waiting until the TDL to move Jake instead of trading him that summer when he made it clear he wanted to test FA.

I like Sid. He's a genuine top-5 player all time imo, and seems like a really good person. But I do not give the slightest f*** if he gets pissed at the team for doing what needs to be done, or if he demands a trade out of town because of it. This team's been on a steep and steady decline since 2018. They're not different than the Sharks, Sens, Ducks, Sabres, etc. of the NHL anymore--Sid or not. It's time to grow a spine and turn the goddamn page. Sid will get over it or he won't.

I think it's funny that Sid and Mario are following each other's careers literally down to the final bell.

Time being a flat circle and all that BS.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think Sid's definitely delusional and believes he can fix things. But he's delusional. He and Geno might not even be PPG players this season, and the supporting cast they have around them is pretty close to utter dogshit. They're on pace to give up north of 300 goals against this season. They're dreadful, but parity is king in this league so they've managed to string together a couple of meaningless wins so people are like "Hey wait a second here, we might be cooking."

 

[Empoleon8771]

No Pettersson or Rakell on Team Sweden, makes sense when you look at the guys Sweden has instead.

William Eklund didn't make it over Arvidsson, which kinda makes me realize these competitions and national teams are kinda a joke.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think Sid's definitely delusional and believes he can fix things. But he's delusional. He and Geno might not even be PPG players this season, and the supporting cast they have around them is pretty close to utter dogshit. They're on pace to give up north of 300 goals against this season. They're dreadful, but parity is king in this league so they've managed to string together a couple of meaningless wins so people are like "Hey wait a second here, we might be cooking."

I don't think anyone is cooking anything here other than hot turd stew but I do think it's a testament to how incredible Sid and Malkin are as players that they are both still carrying around suspect to downright trash players and putting up close to a PPG each at like 40.

Sometimes people get it a little twisted how good these guys were and frankly still are in some ways. People are fooling themselves and/or haven't been paying attention if they really think that Sid and Malkin would be doing anything other than playing at very high levels (PPG+ each) if this team were even decently built and coached.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

None of this is about what could be done, now. Dubas hammered that final nail this past offseason.

It's being irritated and a little sad about what WASN'T done and how obvious it should have been.



I think it's funny that Sid and Mario are following each other's careers literally down to the final bell.

Time being a flat circle and all that BS.

Yeah. I mean, I guess Mario had the whole franchise/arena stuff keeping him playing longer than he might've normally, but Mario was fine playing on some absolutely awful teams. I'm sure Sid will be fine sticking around if they pulled the plug on the era and did what needs done now, after years of Sullivan, JR, Hextall, and Dubas doing what they've done. Like you often say; shouldn't have ended like this, didn't have to be this ugly. But here we are. /shrug

No Pettersson or Rakell on Team Sweden, makes sense when you look at the guys Sweden has instead.

William Eklund didn't make it over Arvidsson, which kinda makes me realize these competitions and national teams are kinda a joke.

Word is guys like Tage and Caufield got snubbed for corpses like Kreider, Trochek, and Brock Nelson. Very unserious stuff.

I don't think anyone is cooking anything here other than hot turd stew but I do think it's a testament to how incredible Sid and Malkin are as players that they are both still carrying around suspect to downright trash players and putting up close to a PPG each at like 40.

Sometimes people get it a little twisted how good these guys were and frankly still are in some ways. People are fooling themselves and/or haven't been paying attention if they really think that Sid and Malkin would be doing anything other than playing at very high levels (PPG+ each) if this team were even decently built and coached.

With the cooking thing, I meant folks within the organization, to be clear.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Are you worried about fatigue?

Yes, very much. It's the vast majority of the reason we're having the problems we're having.

Sid and Malkin were two of the team's most dominant players last year down the stretch. What's the issue?

That they had stretches of bad play throughout the season. Because they're old, and can't play consistently anymore.

I don't think you need a 100+ point wing in his 20s. There aren't many of those, you know.

True, the 100+ players are usually centers.

But yes they needed another top forward years ago to ease the burden. They opted for the Rusts, Raks, Buntings, Zuckers etc. of the league, instead and spent a boatload of cash to try to "boost the offense from the back end" with the savings. It was a big mistake.

'Easing the burden' is not a viable path to winning anymore. They need at least one player who is both younger and better than Crosby currently is in order to win anything. Preferably two or three.

I mean that's why Malkin, Letang and Crosby took less. So the team could build around them. Not pay 4.5 mil to a guy who sits on the bench.

Typically, the players that would need to be found to fix the roster are players drafted and developed, and not found in free agency.

This roster says hello,

View attachment 939991

The best forwards on that roster in both the regular season and the playoffs were 27-year-old Henrik Zetterberg, and 29-year-old Pavel Datsyuk. The next-best forwards in the playoffs was 28-year-old Johan Franzen. Yes, they had Lidstrom heading up their defense, but 27-year-old Niklas Kronwall was actually more productive during the playoffs.
The 2002 Red Wings would've been a better example, but that was a fluke run during the Dead Puck Era, and not really applicable to current times.

 

[Turin]

No Pettersson or Rakell on Team Sweden, makes sense when you look at the guys Sweden has instead.

William Eklund didn't make it over Arvidsson, which kinda makes me realize these competitions and national teams are kinda a joke.

There’s never been a less legitimate “best on best tournament” ever. And the teams don’t have even have nice drip this time.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Word is guys like Tage and Caufield got snubbed for corpses like Kreider, Trochek, and Brock Nelson. Very unserious stuff.

The Arvidsson one is even worse IMO, he has 2 goals and 5 points in 16 games this year. Eklund has 23 points in 27 games.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

The long-term health of the team is

The long-term health of the team is not served by making Crosby miserable enough to demand a trade.

more important than this stagnant bullshit where the team's held hostage by Sid's desire to play in one final Olympics. People might not wanna hear that but it's the harsh reality. They're too dumb and too cowardly to even risk Sid getting upset so they'll remain petrified in suspended animation, turning what could be like a 5-6 year turnaround into like a decade just because.

The team will be stronger after a 10-year rebuild with Crosby going out on his own terms as a Pittsburgh Penguin than with a 5-6 year turnaround where every player we draft knows just how expendable they are.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yes, very much. It's the vast majority of the reason we're having the problems we're having.

That they had stretches of bad play throughout the season. Because they're old, and can't play consistently anymore.

True, the 100+ players are usually centers.

'Easing the burden' is not a viable path to winning anymore. They need at least one player who is both younger and better than Crosby currently is in order to win anything. Preferably two or three.

Typically, the players that would need to be found to fix the roster are players drafted and developed, and not found in free agency.

The best forwards on that roster in both the regular season and the playoffs were 27-year-old Henrik Zetterberg, and 29-year-old Pavel Datsyuk. The next-best forwards in the playoffs was 28-year-old Johan Franzen. Yes, they had Lidstrom heading up their defense, but 27-year-old Niklas Kronwall was actually more productive during the playoffs.
The 2002 Red Wings would've been a better example, but that was a fluke run during the Dead Puck Era, and not really applicable to current times.

I am not interested in them competing for Stanley Cups. I mean... not the realistic part of my brain, anyway. But I'm of the mind that you make the playoffs and just never know after that. I think we've all seen some crazy shit in that theater over the years from teams that "had no chance." I just want Crosby and Malkin to be getting the opportunity because they deserve at least that much. But here we are.

My main point is that saying "this team's problem is that they aged out" is not even close to a fraction of the story even if it's not UNtrue here in 2024. I don't see how we could sit here and watch how the (various) front offices and coaching staff has handled their business since the B2B and think otherwise, frankly.