Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[Gurglesons]

It's hilarious to me how you went from saying Hoglander would be a great centerpiece to get back for Guentzel like 8 months ago to saying that he now has negative value today, just because Hoglander started the year poorly this year.

Yes, because the idea with Hoglander would've been to continue to pump his numbers here this year and then flip him for more futures. Not tie him down with a 3x3 million dollar deal.

The idea was to get Podkolzin and Hoglander and then try and utilize them in a trade.

 

[Empoleon8771]

He scored 24 on an insanely good 20% shooting percentage. At a more normal 10% he's a 12 goal scorer. That's hardly impressive at all.

His career numbers are 17 goals per 82 games with a 12.2 shooting% and playing 13 minutes a night. For 3x3, those are totally solid totals.

He's roughly a 15-20 goal, 30-35 point winger. Hence why I'm saying his value is roughly a 3rd rounder.

Yes, because the idea with Hoglander would've been to continue to pump his numbers here this year and then flip him for more futures. Not tie him down with a 3x3 million dollar deal.

How would the 3x3 deal be any sort of issue if they're pumping up his numbers and then flipping him? It would be extremely easy to trade him at that cap hit if they're pumping his numbers.

 

[Sideline]

His career numbers are 17 goals per 82 games with a 12.2 shooting% and playing 13 minutes a night. For 3x3, those are totally solid totals.

He's roughly a 15-20 goal, 30-35 point winger. Hence why I'm saying his value is roughly a 3rd rounder.



How would the 3x3 deal be any sort of issue if they're pumping up his numbers and then flipping him? It would be extremely easy to trade him at that cap hit if they're pumping his numbers.

His career is short enough that those pace stats are materially skewed by his one insanely good season. He's nothing special.

 

[Gurglesons]

How would the 3x3 deal be any sort of issue if they're pumping up his numbers and then flipping him? It would be extremely easy to trade him at that cap hit if they're pumping his numbers.

It's not if he finds success, but if he doesn't you're stuck with the contract.

Mikheyev, Hoglander, Podkolzin and a 1st. Was what I wanted from Canucks fans for Jake Guentzel.

 

[Empoleon8771]

His career is short enough that those pace stats are materially skewed by his one insanely good season. He's nothing special.

He had 13 goals and 27 points in 56 games in his rookie season.

He has played in nearly 250 games in his career at this point, trying to dismiss his career numbers by removing the positive outlier (while keeping in the negative outliers like this year) is wildly disingenuous.

In his first 3 years in the NHL, his pace was 15 goals and 31 points per 82 games. So like I said, a 15-20 goal and 30-35 point winger.

 

[SEALBound]

Someone should tell Dubas that Wilkes-Barre isn’t on his no-trade list.

I propose Graves to WBS for a Shane Endicott bobblehead.

Is the puka shell necklace included?

 

[SomeDude]

The fact we are bickering about the nuisances of value of a player of Nils Hoglander’s caliber shows truly how far we have fallen.

 

[Turin]

The fact we are bickering about the nuisances of value of a player of Nils Hoglander’s caliber shows truly how far we have fallen.

Says nothing, this board will dissect any players game if the Pens are even vaguely linked. We have always had a middle six player infatuation. Kulemin anyone?

 

[Empoleon8771]

The fact we are bickering about the nuisances of value of a player of Nils Hoglander’s caliber shows truly how far we have fallen.

My point of view is that it seems very needless to get mad about getting Hoglander back in a Pettersson deal unless Dubas screws up. They should still be getting a 2nd and a prospect back for Pettersson even with acquiring Hoglander as well.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Hoglander might be paid "fairly."

But I don't want him fairly paid on this team. How many utterly milquetoast 30ish point middle six forwards with no developmental headroom or discernable skills does this team NEED? Just give me the damned 2nd rounder and toss in one of their "top prospects" in the same way Carolina did and I'll be fine.

 

[SEALBound]

The fact we are bickering about the nuisances of value of a player of Nils Hoglander’s caliber shows truly how far we have fallen.

It's December, and we are meh, lol. At least we have something to talk about!

Hoglander loves to go to the net and he had some speed, and his defensive impact isn’t terrible. I think he could do well in Sullivans system.

I was going to say this as well. Seems like people don't think he plays within a disciplined structure well enough for Tocchet. Well hell, we don't even really have any structure in our systems to speak of! Fly little Hoglander, fly!

My point of view is that it seems very needless to get mad about getting Hoglander back in a Pettersson deal unless Dubas screws up. They should still be getting a 2nd and a prospect back for Pettersson even with acquiring Hoglander as well.

I wonder if there's value in the "getting out of the 3x3" that they gave him? If Tocchet doesn't like him and won't play him above the 4th line, that's a hefty deal to keep. Part of a return could easily be "and you get out of the deal". That's also why I suggest adding Nieto to the trade. I think he'd fair far better in Tocchet's system than Hoglander.

 

[PensFutures]

Lots of players randomly score 20 goals. See Noel Acciari.

F***ing yikes.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

View attachment 939971

F***ing yikes.

Boy the return on that trade just kept on going even though you could have stopped at "Adam Gaudette" and been like "yeah that seems right."

 

[Empoleon8771]

View attachment 939971

F***ing yikes.

To be fair, he was a lesser piece in the much larger ROR trade.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

doesn't it raise anyone else's eyebrows a bit that Hoglander seems to be in basically every single Vancouver fan trade proposal/rumor mill for going on like two seasons?

On the one hand, I agree with you, in the sense that Canucks fans think Hoglander is worth more than he actually is and so would be eager to trade him.
On the other hand, he has fallen out of favor with Vancouver's coaching staff and is likely to be traded anyway; it makes sense that he would be in a lot of trade proposals for that reason.

To be fair, he was a lesser piece in the much larger ROR trade.

Yeah, I was just thinking, there's no way they gave all of that up just for Acciari.

 

[Gurglesons]

View attachment 939971

F***ing yikes.

How is Kyle Dubas going to trade with himself?

 

[PensFutures]

To be fair, he was a lesser piece in the much larger ROR trade.

Ah. That makes more sense now. I forgot there was a 3rd team involved and ROR "technically" was traded for a 4th.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

To be fair, he was a lesser piece in the much larger ROR trade.

Alright that makes more sense. Feel like I would have been STILL hearing about what an absolute clown trade that was to this day were that the whole story.

It's a little sad how little faith I have in Kyle Dubas that I just took it at face value. Or my critical thinking skills just suck. I'll be charitable and say "little bit of both."

 

[SomeDude]

My point of view is that it seems very needless to get mad about getting Hoglander back in a Pettersson deal unless Dubas screws up. They should still be getting a 2nd and a prospect back for Pettersson even with acquiring Hoglander as well.

Just keep this energy if/when he gets less than that instead of inventing a reason why he actually did a good job.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

On the one hand, I agree with you, in the sense that Canucks fans think Hoglander is worth more than he actually is and so would be eager to trade him.
On the other hand, he has fallen out of favor with Vancouver's coaching staff and is likely to be traded anyway; it makes sense that he would be in a lot of trade proposals for that reason.

He just seems like a mostly nothing player to me. It would hardly be the end of the world but I would roll my eyes were anything of even decent value moved for him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Just keep this energy if/when he gets less than that instead of inventing a reason why he actually did a good job.

Yeah if the deal is Hoglander and a 2nd for Pettersson, it's a poor deal. Not "worst deal ever" but it is a poor deal.

My expectation is Hoglander, Mynio and a 2nd for Pettersson.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't think Petts has to go to Vancouver tbh. I dunno why we always talk about trading with the Canucks every time someone becomes available.

Trade him to the team you're going to get the best return from. If that's Vancouver, cool. If that's Philly, Washington, NYR, NYI, whoever--just get the best return possible. Don't give a shit where Petts ends up playing, he's a nothingmancer.

 

[SomeDude]

Yeah if the deal is Hoglander and a 2nd for Pettersson, it's a poor deal. Not "worst deal ever" but it is a poor deal.

My expectation is Hoglander, Mynio and a 2nd for Pettersson.

I think Petts is worth a (late) first or a 2nd plus one player/prospect of Hoglander’s value. To get an extra piece would be a good deal for Kyle.

The pit in my stomach with rumors of other teams interested in Hoglander makes me feel like he is going to be the main piece of a deal and we’ll get a 4th or mediocre prospect with him as Dubas continues to pretend a retool is possible.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Tbh if the Penguins really want Hoglander, I don't know why Pettersson has to be included in the deal. Throw them Puljujarvi and a 3rd and I bet that likely gets a deal done.

Get Hoglander now and let a bidding war happen for Pettersson closer to the deadline.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Tbh if the Penguins really want Hoglander, I don't know why Pettersson has to be included in the deal. Throw them Puljujarvi and a 3rd and I bet that likely gets a deal done.

Get Hoglander now and let a bidding war happen for Pettersson closer to the deadline.

Think I'd rather have Pulju based on what I already know he CAN do here.

But clearly the buffoon that holds the lineup card does not agree so I mean... might as well move him for something.