Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[Malkinstheman]

If they dont want to make an official statement of some kind, atleast give Yohe or somebody a "scoop" about whats going on. The total radio silence while getting killed every game is wild

 

[Gurglesons]

If they dont want to make an official statement of some kind, atleast give Yohe or somebody a "scoop" about whats going on. The total radio silence while getting killed every game is wild

Dubas was on his radio show giving politics answers Wednesday my brother.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

If it hasn't happened now, I sadly just can't imagine it happening this season.....

I mean come on, just do it and say it lets him focus more on the four nations or some shit.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

If they dont want to make an official statement of some kind, atleast give Yohe or somebody a "scoop" about whats going on. The total radio silence while getting killed every game is wild

Dubas doesn't leak, the local media doesn't have real sources, and FSG isn't a hands-on ownership. They've given full control to Dubas to run the hockey operations as he sees fit.

There are no scoops to be had.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

If they dont want to make an official statement of some kind, atleast give Yohe or somebody a "scoop" about whats going on. The total radio silence while getting killed every game is wild

I think this team would have to go on like a 0-10-0 stretch in order for Sully to be fired in-season tbh. But I do think he's closer to being fired than ever before. Maybe it's cope but I think the dude's donezo as soon as the regular season's over.

Fingers crossed and all that shit.

 

[Andy99]

If they dont want to make an official statement of some kind, atleast give Yohe or somebody a "scoop" about whats going on. The total radio silence while getting killed every game is wild

lol…here it is…and it should titled, “What I’m not hearing…” don’t waste your time…

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5944592/2024/11/24/penguins-mike-sullivan-kyle-dubas-fsg/

• He has a particularly close relationship with Sidney Crosby, who believes in Sullivan.

• Fenway Sports Group ownership is fond of Sullivan.

• Sullivan has two years remaining on his contract following this season. While Fenway might have a lot of money, the ownership group can be stingy, leading to the assumption that FSG wouldn’t be interested in paying for two head coaches for the better part of two seasons.

• And maybe the biggest of all: Expectations were low this season anyway, with a common sentiment around the organization that this team would miss the playoffs because it’s in transition.

So, is Sullivan in trouble?

The above evidence would suggest he’s not. But the truth is only Kyle Dubas truly knows,..

But that’s the thing about FSG: They’re so, so corporate. And they don’t have hockey experience.

What this means is Sullivan’s fate is very much in Dubas’ hands. The Penguins don’t really have a boss in terms of ownership. Mario Lemieux might have been the most hands-off owner imaginable, but he was still the boss and made certain decisions. And kept everyone accountable because of who he was.

Dubas, frankly, has more power than anyone in the organization by a long shot.

I think Dubas likes Sullivan a lot and thinks he’s a great coach. I’d also note Dubas, more than anyone, seemed very interested in squashing optimism at his preseason news conference. I think he knew there was a real chance this team wouldn’t be very good and thus Sullivan probably was expected to survive this season.

The question is: How poorly do the Penguins have to play for Sullivan to get fired? I’m sure there is a point where Dubas will say enough is enough. No coach, not even Sullivan, is immune from being dismissed. The Penguins are horrific right now.

My sense all along, however, has been that Dubas and ownership don’t hold Sullivan responsible for what’s going on.

So, sure, he could get fired. But I think the Penguins view that as a last resort. And I don’t think they truly want to let him go.

 

[BusinessGoose]

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Everything about that Yohe piece sucks.

"We expected to be dogshit, not Sully's fault." FSG is f***ing clueless and has no idea what's going on hockey-wise. Dubas is the mastermind of the whole operation (lol) and he's a Sully backer. Sullivan may have a clause that ensures he gets paid even if he signs elsewhere. Sid's thrown his support behind Sully and they're bros.

I still think they'll fire the guy after the year, but yeesh. What an embarrassing organization for it to even be a question. Team's tumbled to the basement of the league, they're about to miss for the third year in a row, yet we're still skeptical that the coach--who hasn't won a playoff round since 2018--is going to be axed.

 

[Snooki Stackhouse]

They stink, and they're ok with that because that's a way to get talent into the organization. There's no other goal right now except to maximize draft capital. However I feel like they could be doing a lot better job with the younger players they do have, and constantly bringing in shitty veterans to steal playing time from younger players is what is troubling.

They could have the same record - or worse - and I'd feel a lot better about what they're doing if the moves they made were consistent and all adhered to some overarching theme. Instead it's - sell a player, maintain a shitty team, lose lose lose, oh yeah let's keep signing and playing these f***ing turds while the limited young talent we do have rot away in Wilkes and Wheeling.

 

[JRS91]

I'm sure it's been mentioned already, but firing Sullivan means Quinn becomes the head coach, more than likely. At least for the remainder of the season.

 

[BusinessGoose]

I'm sure it's been mentioned already, but firing Sullivan means Quinn becomes the head coach, more than likely. At least for the remainder of the season.

Well, I didn't vote Sullivan/Quinn '24!!!! I don't want quinnie to be president

 

[Ryder71]

Sid should go to COL. Here's my proposal.

PIT gets: Mittelstadt, Ritchie, '25 2hd rounder COL got from Rags

Col gets: Crosby, 2.2 mil retained and a serviceable depth forward in DOC

Cap wise it works and would help both teams with their respective and realistic goals.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

If Sullivan is going to finish out the year, I hope they send Pickering down asap.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Saw this on the trade board, all Dubas moves. When put like this it's hard to defend Dubas so far. Worst of all keeping Sullivan of course.

2.5M- Alex Nedeljkovic
5.3M- Tristan Jarry
3.5M- Kevin Hayes
10M - Erik Karlsson
2.5M - Cody Glass
2M- Noel Acciari
4.5M - Ryan Graves
4.5M - Michael Bunting
2.75M - Matt Grzelcyk

 

[DearDiary]

Tanking teams like the Sharks have players like Granlund raising their value in trades.

Sullivan has the Pens tanking while crushing every players value.

 

[Slaaapshuter]

In hindsight, JR losing his freaking mind and marbles when leaving Pittsburgh is making a lot more sense.

We all critized him then and thought he was nuts... Maybe he was the only sane one left after all.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Saw this on the trade board, all Dubas moves. When put like this it's hard to defend Dubas so far. Worst of all keeping Sullivan of course.

2.5M- Alex Nedeljkovic
5.3M- Tristan Jarry
3.5M- Kevin Hayes
10M - Erik Karlsson
2.5M - Cody Glass
2M- Noel Acciari
4.5M - Ryan Graves
4.5M - Michael Bunting
2.75M - Matt Grzelcyk

The only ones that really matter are Bunting, Jarry, Graves, and EK imo. Ned's a whatever backup. Hayes and Glass were moves teams make when they've thrown in the towel. Acciari and Grz (and Beau) are waiver wire fodder but cheap and no term commitment. Bunting was a dumb add in to the Jake deal. Jarry and Graves were big f*** ups but in the grand scheme of things don't really matter anymore cuz this team's f***ing cooked. Keeping Sully, combined with Jarry+Graves+EK put the final shovelfuls of dirt on the grave tbh. They were already dead and buried from years of JR and Hextall, but that combination of things by Dubas sealed the deal for the era.

I don't think they've committed fully to a rebuild yet but the approach definitely (imo) shifted when talks died re: Jake's extension and he made it known he was going to FA, forcing the team to trade him. Nobody was brought on with any significant AAV or term since. There's been no attempt to part with significant assets to add to the roster. They've taken on bad players in exchange for draft capital. By the time October rolls around, there's a decent-to-good chance this team doesn't have some combination of Petts, DOC, Puljujarvi, Rakell, Rust, and EK on it.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Saw this on the trade board, all Dubas moves. When put like this it's hard to defend Dubas so far. Worst of all keeping Sullivan of course.

2.5M- Alex Nedeljkovic
5.3M- Tristan Jarry
3.5M- Kevin Hayes
10M - Erik Karlsson
2.5M - Cody Glass
2M- Noel Acciari
4.5M - Ryan Graves
4.5M - Michael Bunting
2.75M - Matt Grzelcyk

There's a lot more to some of those deals though, I think the ones he made in his first month are tough to go by, because he signed on to be Director of Hockey Operations, he didn't take the GM role fully until 2 months in and was just temporary GM, so the way I read it was Sullivan had the hammer from FSG and he talked about going through a list of what needed to be done, to me that all felt like he went with the mandates he was told to take care of before he found a GM but didn't. If you recall, the Penguins new ownership had a hard on for Dubas, they sought him out as the best GM candidate while interviewing 2nd rounds with Tulsky, Darche, and Botterill. Toronto had a falling out with Dubas, he becomes avialable, Pens hire him but he only wanted the vacant Hockey Ops role, FSG REALLY wanted him to be the GM, he only takes the GM role later which again - seems very odd, because if Tulsky backed out then why isn't Darche or Botterill even a candidate to be the GM? It's not like they suddenly didn't have these options, Tulsky didn't even take the GM job in Carolina until this year, its likely Tulsky leveraged the interviews for a succession plan in Carolina, but the other two? Botterill has been in a succession plan for Seattle for a couple of years now, that leaves Darche who has very little experience but is more of a Hockey Ops type of hire that understands development - would have been ok for a rebuilding team.

Except Henry went out of his way to say this off season that he wanted to get back to the playoffs and be a contender with Crosby, so what is exactly the plan? Werner talked about buying into Dubas' plan for the team to get younger and back to winning, but you can't do that with this coach who refuses to use youth. So these moves, I would say a ton are heavily influenced by Sullivan and then a few that Dubas likely pushed through - like the AHL depth signings, Acciari (he traded for him in Toronto), etc. Even Yager, to me it didn't seem like Yager was Dubas' choice at the draft, that was likely the scouts having their list after Hextall and Burke were fired and sat down with Sullivan to figure out things before Dubas was brought on, with 3 weeks to prep for the draft, Dubas has his list from Toronto but also has to respect the Penguins choices.

• 2.5M- Alex Nedeljkovic - Ned likely didn't have suitors if we're honest, most other Gm's likely dug into his numbers like I kept showing to show he wasn't much better than Jarry last year and is worse in a lot of ways than Jarry. No one thought it was weird that he didn't sign anywhere else? Really? He could see the team was shit and he stayed, why? They just dumped Jake, it's likely the Pens were the only one to offer him a contract, this one I definitely say Dubas was an idiot for doing - 100% Dubas f*** up.
• 5.3M- Tristan Jarry - He was good and then he was bad, the story of Jarry. Jarry is a Sullivan fave from his time in WBS, as weird as that is to admit, I am willing to let this one slide as Dubasshole was new and he asked two idiots about Jarry and they sold him on Jarry, Dubasshole should have known better, he was shrewd in Toronto with goalies, he likely regrets listening to them now. I am gonna say this one was more 75/25 Sully/Dubas f***-up.
• 3.5M- Kevin Hayes - To take on Hayes, the Penguins also got a 2nd round pick. Weaponized salary cap for picks, a smart Dubas move.
• 10M - Erik Karlsson - Moved a 1st and 2nd as well as DeSmith, Petry, Granlund, Rutta, and Legare and got back some nobodies with Karlsson and a 3rd. Pens retained on Petry and Sharks retained on Karlsson.
• 2.5M - Cody Glass - Weaponized cap space again and got a young player that would succeed if he wasn't Sullied + 3rd and 6th round pick and dumped Frasca. A smart Dubas move.
• 2M- Noel Acciari - He traded for him in Toronto, he has some weird love for Acciari and Sullivan has an even bigger hard on for him, 100% on Dubas.
• 4.5M - Ryan Graves - He was signed quickly when he joined the Pens, I wonder how much of it is Dubas and how much was Sullivan and his list of players he wanted that were free agents, I am going to give this a 50/50 Sully-Dubas blunder.
• 4.5M - Michael Bunting - This one is likely a cap dump but also a cap dump Dubas chose, so really Bunting is inconsequential in this one because this is a Jake Guentzel deal - They also got Koivunen, Ponomarev, Cruz, and 2 picks that had conditions on it. Pens retained 25% of Guentzel's final year which made it a wash for what Bunting was so who gives a shit about Bunting? One of the picks they got also ended up being Harrison Brunicke, that 5th didn't convert I think unless I missed it. So it was Jake 25% retained + Smith for Bunting, Koivunen, Ponomarev, Cruz, and Brunicke - WHO GIVES A f*** ABOUT BUNTING? He isn't even a bad player to be honest, he's being used like shit. He still isn't used on Sid's wing, they literally used two right wingers with Sid instead, smooth brain Sullivan.
• 2.75M - Matt Grzelcyk - Who in their right mind things this one is Dubas' move? This is 100% Sullivan. He played with Sully's son in law, he's got ties to both Sullivan and Quinn, I mean we all know Sullivan has a lot of say for the roster make up, like shit like this, but we ignore a lot of other stuff? Quinn coached him in College, Sullivan knows him through his son in law, you lot aren't that stupid are you?
• 2.45M Lars Eller - Let's not forget this one, we wanted him dealt last TDL, but Dubas had a value set for him I guess and the Caps met it this year, but he was just taking up cap space, no trade for him, but brought back a 3rd and a 5th, I call that a Dubas win.

The issue with this team is, how much better could it have been if Sullivan wasn't dictating moves? A lot of players are heavily influenced by Mike Sullivan and this year to a lesser extent, David Quinn. So you have to wonder, if Dubas had the balls to fire Sullivan this past summer, how much of this roster would Dubas have really overhauled?

He likely wouldn't have kept Nedeljkovic, wouldn't have signed Grzelcyk, maybe he doesn't even trade for Hayes and uses that cap space for another similar move? The Acciari thing wasn't even as bad at first but Sullivan kept using him more and more and then it became this typical Sullivan type of usage for the player, I hate Dubas for putting him on the roster to be over used by Sullivan if anything.

But the Bunting gripe? Yeah no that's bullshit, Bunting has not been tried with Sid for a game, he's either on the 3rd line or with Malkin, that isn't weird to anyone? I joked Sullivan would put Raks on the LW and Rust up with Sid instead of trying Bunting and holy shit, guess what...he did just that.

They moved Jake who wanted this massive pay day, retained 25% and dumped Ty Smith and got back a decent haul and a top 9 winger that before Sullivan "adjusted his game" was a fantastic winger in the final 20 games last year, then a haul of prospects. I personally like Yager and didn't see the need to move him for McGroarty, the more I read about Rutger I liked him but his skating was always something continuously brought up and you can definitely see why, but again, is that a move Dubas would have made if he wasn't making other moves for Sullivan and decided ok we need a winger closer to being ready? Yager could have been that too, not sure what happened with their scouting on him that suddenly made them focus on Rutger.

I know last year when I heard the Flyers had issues with Cutter, back of my mind, I wanted the Pens to find a 3rd party to get him for Yager, that was maybe the only time I was open to moving Yager, but that one is a time will tell.


The Players Dubas Brought in or Traded:

• Acciari - signed
• Bunting - Traded for in Jake deal
• Jarry - re-signed
• Nedeljkovic - signed
• Karlsson - Traded, shed a lot of cap and dead weight but also didn't realize Sullivan was going to royally f*** this.
• Grzelcyk - It's like he didn't learn from Graves being a Sully pick, be smarter Kyle Dipshit
• Eller - signed, then traded
• Hayes - traded for to utilize cap space to get picks
• Glass - traded for to utilize cap space to get picks
• Graves - signed
• Nieto - signed
• Yager - traded
• Lizotte - signed, wasn't needed in addition to Acciari, Nieto, Glass, and Hayes, blocked youth
• Beauvillier - signed, wasn't needed, blocked youth and f***s over Doc who has really stunk this year in his usage
• Aho - signed, depth
• Clurman - signed, depth
• Hollowell - Soo reject, signed, depth

Here's the extra's that came with them:

• Bunting
• Brunicke
• Ponomarev
• Koivunen
• Cruz
• McGroarty
• 2nd round pick 2026
• 3rd round pick 2026
• 6th round pick 2026
• 3rd round pick 2025
• 3rd round pick 2027
• 5th round pick 2025 (Hawks pick from Caps, so a late 4th I guess)

Then there's his draft picks that we will have to wait on from 2023 and 2024, he already dealt Yager who he drafted but I get the sense he was ok moving him because he wasn't someone he likely had on his list and went off the Penguins list. Because that 2023 Draft looked a lot like a typical Penguins draft. 2024 looked closer to what Dubas went for in Toronto. Just my take on that.

 

[DearDiary]

Sullivan should have been fired and the team retooled after the Montreal playoff series, but management kept pushing on. Even after the team clearly gave up on their coach 2 years ago when they needed 1 win against the 2 worst teams in the league, the Jackets and Hawks.

7 straight seasons with no series wins, 3 no playoffs at all. I'm absolutely disgusted that Sullivan is still behind the bench and the players defending him, when we see him getting schooled by other coach's like Brindamour.

What a pathetic franchise with rock bottom standards. Easily the lowest standards of compete and class in the league.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

If it hasn't happened now, I sadly just can't imagine it happening this season.....

I mean come on, just do it and say it lets him focus more on the four nations or some shit.

The Blues who had Monty as an Assistant when he was back from his substance abuse stint, saw their chance and fired Bannister, which was the right call. Bannister was in over his head, so many players were struggling and looked terrible under his coaching, he was going to get fired at the end of the season if Montgomery wasn't suddenly available.

But the Penguins had their chance to hire a fantastic coach and missed the opportunity again, so now they get to boast the "well there's no one available" bullshit, but really if this team is rebuilding/retooling, then there's a f*** ton of options out there. If they think they're still a contender, then again, they missed out on Montgomery and kept a coach that in his 8 seasons after the cup, not being on the hot seat for the results in those past 8 seasons is probably one of the most bizarre things in the NHL for coaches that should be fired but aren't.

No other coach in this league has kept his job for:

• Winning 1 round of playoffs
• 3 First round exits
• Out in the play in round - Technically out of the playoffs
• Missed the playoffs 2 seasons in a row
• Currently about to miss their 3rd playoff in a row.

Show me another coach since 2005-06 that has that kind of track record and has kept their job and not once been on the hot seat. Most coaches that are out in the first round 3x in a row are fired, missing a playoffs will get them fired, missing two in a row if they're lucky? Fired. Missing 3 in a row and still not on the hot seat? Only a rebuilding team will hang on to the coach while missing the playoffs and even then, they HIRE that coach after firing the previous one and head into the rebuild with the coach that they're ok seeing no playoffs while they rebuild.

Blashill is the one that comes to mind, but he was a tank coach, he was there to grow with the team but was absolute shit as a coach, 6 straight misses and 1 first round exit, only .500 once in his entire 7yrs with Detroit.

Sullivan should have been fired and the team retooled after the Montreal playoff series, but management kept pushing on. Even after the team clearly gave up on their coach 2 years ago when they needed 1 win against the 2 worst teams in the league, the Jackets and Hawks.

7 straight seasons with no series wins, 3 no playoffs at all. I'm absolutely disgusted that Sullivan is still behind the bench and the players defending him, when we see him getting schooled by other coach's like Brindamour.

What a pathetic franchise with rock bottom standards. Easily the lowest standards of compete and class in the league.

Crosby would defend him tooth and nail, why wouldn't he.

He gets the ice time he wants. The usage he wants. He gets the best wingers available, he gets everything he wants and even when he sucks and boy has he sucked this year, he gets to whine and throw a hissy fit fight and be called an emotional leader. When your Captain is happy and ignorant to the issues, nothing is going to change. Even when Malkin was clearly out playing his ass, Sullivan still kept f***ing his line up to make Sid's line better. That wasn't the case last season when Geno was struggling and they kept force feeding Reilly Smith down his throat.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Am I starting to see things or is the resemblance not uncanny

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Am I starting to see things or is the resemblance not uncanny
View attachment 935250

I swapped Sully's face in this and you can barely tell lol

 

[Empoleon8771]

Saw this on the trade board, all Dubas moves. When put like this it's hard to defend Dubas so far. Worst of all keeping Sullivan of course.

2.5M- Alex Nedeljkovic
5.3M- Tristan Jarry
3.5M- Kevin Hayes
10M - Erik Karlsson
2.5M - Cody Glass
2M- Noel Acciari
4.5M - Ryan Graves
4.5M - Michael Bunting
2.75M - Matt Grzelcyk

Over half of those guys just don't even matter.

It's Jarry, Graves and Karlsson that are the issues. And Karlsson likely gets traded with retention for value sometime in the next year and a half anyway.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Karlsson absolutely doesn't have this kind of value, but I'm wondering how much the Penguins would have to add on top of him in a deal around this basis:

Penguins trade Karlsson at $5 million+
Senators trade Zub and Pinto

Ottawa is struggling just as much as the Penguins, and it sounds like they may be making a trade with their core. Zub (-7 in 11 games) and Pinto (3 points and -7 in 12 games) are also both having bad starts to the year. Zub makes $4.6 million a year for 3 years and Pinto makes $3.75 million a year for 2 years, so neither are particularly cheap either. Pinto just turned 24 though, so that makes me strongly doubt they'd trade him for Karlsson even at $5 million.

I am very skeptical the Penguins have the + there to make this deal work, but it would be a nice chance at getting a quality young guy if they could pull it off.

Edit: or maybe the Senators would prefer to move Jensen since he's older than Zub. Jensen and Pinto for Karlsson at $5 million seems....doable? Maybe?

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Over half of those guys just don't even matter.

It's Jarry, Graves and Karlsson that are the issues. And Karlsson likely gets traded with retention for value sometime in the next year and a half anyway.

I agree 100% with the 3 players mentioned, especially EK

We could have had a nice prospect like Dickinson, Helenius, Eiserman who knows and also would have been moving Granlund this year at the deadline. Top that with sending our 2nd this year to Montreal in that EK deal as well, just terrible..

Graves was just as dumb. There was really no need for him here

Jarry I'm not defending but at the same time he didn't have a choice at the time with no better options on the market. Maybe he could have went 4 years instead of 5 but who knows!

Glass, Hayes we got picks for...