Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[Empoleon8771]

It’s just crazy the lengths people go to attack Dubas. I get it with Sullivan, he has a long established track record. Dubas hasn’t even been here for two years, and we are starting to see the prospect pipeline rebuild, along with swapping the cap space taken up by several inconsequential players to get Erik Karlsson.

Dubas hasn't done enough to get good will from Penguins fans here.

Even a polite interpretation of his job so far would be "poor".

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Out of curiosity, who is stat padding? Sid’s getting nothing and Geno’s production has fallen off since the hot start.

That's the point. Put them together on a line, hope they score a bunch. Who gives a shit about depth when this has been a one line team pretty much nonstop since the second Kessel was traded.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I don't think anyone is predisposed to disliking Dubas. Most seemed very excited he was hired.

But uh... what exactly has he done thus far that engenders confidence in his ability?

Is it the glasses? It's the glasses, isn't it?

 

[Andy99]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1850928561462333449

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm starting to think that trading for Karlsson and hoping he can be competent defensively on a team with a bad defensive structure was a mistake.

I absolutely think Karlsson can be a useful player on a contender, but he's much more of a sheltered 2nd pair OFD/PPQB at this point. Which is pretty disgusting to be paying $10 million a year for. He's another Kevin Shattenkirk type of player at this point in his career.

 

[SEALBound]

A GM's job isn't only to just "Build up the prospect pipeline". He also has to sign players, manage the cap, etc.

The players he's signed (or re-signed) have not been great. Eller is probably the only person you can say "oh he's been good here"

The rest have been absolute anchors (Jarry) or extremely bad players (Harkins).

Hindsight is always 20/20 and I hate that Sullivan had as much input last year as he did. As stated, he wanted to build 2 offensive lines and 2 defensive lines. Problems arise when your offensive lines are crappy at defense and your defense is offensively anemic.

There are a couple of guys that I really wish they would have got:
1. Morgan Geekie. I feel like he and Glass are in a similar position but he ended up rebounding well in Boston.
2. Daniel Sprong. Much to the chagrin of Sullivan, I'm sure, but we sorely lack shooting ability that he would have been a solid pickup.

I would rather have made a 3rd line of DOC-Geekie-Sprong than whatever our opening night line was.

 

[Andy99]

The smiling MAF love fest is already getting nauseating…we better beat his ass badly tomorrow for my birthday! lol

https://x.com/i/web/status/1850970366237409771

 

[SEALBound]

The smiling MAF love fest is already getting nauseating…we better beat his ass badly tomorrow for my birthday! lol

https://x.com/i/web/status/1850970366237409771

PPG arena is going to cheer harder for MAF on the Wild than their own team tomorrow.

The best highlight will be a behind the scenes look at what prank was pulled.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I basically don't give a shit about the here and now with this team to be brutally honest, so I'm not too torn up about the Graves, the Jarry, the EK, etc. They suck, they're annoying, they were mistakes, but they're not stopping a legitimate team from competing or anything. At worst, I'm bummed a team in this position took a homerun swing on adding EK when they really should've just held on to the picks to keep playing the lotto until they start getting the important, top-5 picks rolling in.

More or less, the only things I'm really concerned about with Dubas are; does he have the spine to fire Sullivan after the season? Does he get value for Petts at the TDL? And does he trade Rust next summer when his NTC drops?

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I don't think anyone is predisposed to disliking Dubas. Most seemed very excited he was hired.

But uh... what exactly has he done thus far that engenders confidence in his ability?

Is it the glasses? It's the glasses, isn't it?

The most concerning thing for me regarding Dubas? He has a track record of not identifying the correct value for goalies. Major blind spot in Toronto and it's rearing it's head in Pittsburgh too.

You just do not commit to goalies long term. I could have stomached Jarry for 2-3 years at his price. But for 5 years? That's bonkers and idiotic.

 

[Gurglesons]

None of those 4 are returning anything more or less than Acciari, Beau, or Hayes.

Someone could have just had Poulin for free.

If you gave them time and got them to produce they would potentially have way more value given their cap hit, age and contracts.

I don't think anyone is predisposed to disliking Dubas. Most seemed very excited he was hired.

But uh... what exactly has he done thus far that engenders confidence in his ability?

Is it the glasses? It's the glasses, isn't it?

I was not a fan of Dubas coming here outside of the fact that we finally had someone who could probably choose any organization choose us.

Now I'm starting to think he took advantage of an uneducated ownership..

 

[Khelandros]

Hindsight is always 20/20 and I hate that Sullivan had as much input last year as he did. As stated, he wanted to build 2 offensive lines and 2 defensive lines. Problems arise when your offensive lines are crappy at defense and your defense is offensively anemic.

There are a couple of guys that I really wish they would have got:
1. Morgan Geekie. I feel like he and Glass are in a similar position but he ended up rebounding well in Boston.
2. Daniel Sprong. Much to the chagrin of Sullivan, I'm sure, but we sorely lack shooting ability that he would have been a solid pickup.

I would rather have made a 3rd line of DOC-Geekie-Sprong than whatever our opening night line was.

Points 1 and 2 didn't happen because of line 1.

 

[BusinessGoose]

I'm starting to think that trading for Karlsson and hoping he can be competent defensively on a team with a bad defensive structure was a mistake.

I absolutely think Karlsson can be a useful player on a contender, but he's much more of a sheltered 2nd pair OFD/PPQB at this point. Which is pretty disgusting to be paying $10 million a year for. He's another Kevin Shattenkirk type of player at this point in his career.

You get an offensive man because you want an offensive dman

Why we got EK to make him into a something else is insanity



It's like buying a brand new car and driving it into a lake to make it a submarine instead then going into the media to say youre disappointed it isn't coming back to the surface

I would be pissed if I were EK here

 

[Gurglesons]

The most concerning thing for me regarding Dubas? He has a track record of not identifying the correct value for goalies. Major blind spot in Toronto and it's rearing it's head in Pittsburgh too.

You just do not commit to goalies long term. I could have stomached Jarry for 2-3 years at his price. But for 5 years? That's bonkers and idiotic.

I think the most concerning thing for me regarding Dubas is he turned Matthews, Marner, Tavares, and Nylander into one playoff win because of mismanagement of assets, bad contracts, and just general lack of creativity and forward thinking.

I'm starting to think that trading for Karlsson and hoping he can be competent defensively on a team with a bad defensive structure was a mistake.

I absolutely think Karlsson can be a useful player on a contender, but he's much more of a sheltered 2nd pair OFD/PPQB at this point. Which is pretty disgusting to be paying $10 million a year for. He's another Kevin Shattenkirk type of player at this point in his career.

Eh. Shattenkirk was never much of a 5v5 driver.

EK65 for all his flaws is still generating offense at 5v5.

 

[SEALBound]

Points 1 and 2 didn't happen because of line 1.

Yeah, that was my point. I mean, those guys are pretty mid to begin with but both were capable of scoring better than Harkins, Eller, Acciari, and whoever else we put there.

If you gave them time and got them to produce they would potentially have way more value given their cap hit, age and contracts.

So if these kids in their mid-20s get the time and produce well, why would we trade them? Not like we have a plethora of young talent to replace them. If we go to FA to do it, everyone is 28yo+ and will come at a premium. So why? Why trade Puustinen? Poulin? DOC? MAYBE Puljujarvi if he's not interested in resigning at a reasonable rate.

This seems incredibly counterintuitive and the opposite of some of the things you say. Instead, they should continue to give a like Eller the best possible linemates and extra time. At his rate, he's looking like he could maybe pull a 2nd at the TDL. Trading out Eller, Acciari, and Hayes to make room for Puustinen, Poulin, and Puljujarvi would be sensible. If you said that, I'm sure everyone would agree.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The smiling MAF love fest is already getting nauseating…we better beat his ass badly tomorrow for my birthday! lol

https://x.com/i/web/status/1850970366237409771

They tend to overdo it but Fleury's more likable and has more personality than anyone this team's had since Phil, Sid and Geno aside. And with Sid, he's a "dude's a boring robot but he's a top-5 player all time and by all accounts is a super good person" likable.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You get an offensive man because you want an offensive dman

Why we got EK to make him into a something else is insanity



It's like buying a brand new car and driving it into a lake to make it a submarine instead then going into the media to say youre disappointed it isn't coming back to the surface

I would be pissed if I were EK here

What did they try to make EK into? EK just being a rover that puts up a billion points isn't viable for a team trying to be good. That's what he does on dogshit teams.

If Karlsson wants to ever be able to play on a contending team again, he needs to be an OFD that can play within a team's structure. He has had issues with that in both this year and last year, with this year being especially bad. Karlsson can't play like he did in San Jose on a good team, he needs to be able to be a play driving OFD with structure.

Sullivan doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt due to how many guys are brought in and just don't fit on the team, but I genuinely think Karlsson's issues here are because of Karlsson, not Sullivan.

 

[SomeDude]

PPG arena is going to cheer harder for MAF on the Wild than their own team tomorrow.

If the home team would give any reason to cheer for them it would help.

 

[Andy99]

Jesse on Locked On Penguins podcast today says the “soup’s gone bad,” by way of explanation for the current team woes lol…says they’re playing the same system Sullivan had in place 8 years ago— aggressive with two forecheckers back trying to break out pucks and because it’s stale and they’re older, it’s not working…thinks the players looking like a beer league team haven’t given up on Sullivan regardless of what it looks like…says they’re trying to play the system as implemented and just can’t lol…really damning towards the coach…again, why hasn’t he been fired yet? Also notes that teams have adjusted to Sullivan’s puck overload D system by throwing the puck to the other part of the ice and the players can’t adjust..why not try something else? lol

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah, that was my point. I mean, those guys are pretty mid to begin with but both were capable of scoring better than Harkins, Eller, Acciari, and whoever else we put there.


So if these kids in their mid-20s get the time and produce well, why would we trade them? Not like we have a plethora of young talent to replace them. If we go to FA to do it, everyone is 28yo+ and will come at a premium. So why? Why trade Puustinen? Poulin? DOC? MAYBE Puljujarvi if he's not interested in resigning at a reasonable rate.

This seems incredibly counterintuitive and the opposite of some of the things you say. Instead, they should continue to give a like Eller the best possible linemates and extra time. At his rate, he's looking like he could maybe pull a 2nd at the TDL. Trading out Eller, Acciari, and Hayes to make room for Puustinen, Poulin, and Puljujarvi would be sensible. If you said that, I'm sure everyone would agree.

Because our contention window is likely 5 years away at minimum. At the time DOC, Pulju and Puustinen will be in their 30s.

Same reason Jersey moved Coleman and Chicago moved Hagel.

 

[SEALBound]

Because our contention window is likely 5 years away at minimum. At the time DOC, Pulju and Puustinen will be in their 30s.

Same reason Jersey moved Coleman and Chicago moved Hagel.

So? NJ got a 1st + quality prospect. Chicago got 2 1sts. We ain't getting that for any of those guys.

 

[Gurglesons]

So? NJ got a 1st + quality prospect. Chicago got 2 1sts. We ain't getting that for any of those guys.

Try to follow along SEALBound. I know it's hard when you are just trying to read my posts to poke holes in the argument.

# 1. Stop playing useless players like Beauvillier in the top nine because nobody will give you shit for a player like Beauvillier as evidence by him being traded multiple times for nothing in recent years.

# 2. Play cheap younger players in the top nine who can potentially up their value. See Drew O'Connor on Crosby's wing. Pump up their production.

# 3. Trade players that are cheap and young for additional draft picks. Draft players and then utilize them in a similar way or have them be in the age group of the new "core".

 

[vodeni]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1850928561462333449

Love Jesse, but now Sid and Rust stinking up the joint is also Karlsson’s fault, maybe it’s other way around

 

[deakka]

So? NJ got a 1st + quality prospect. Chicago got 2 1sts. We ain't getting that for any of those guys.

No we won't. But what's the point of signing DOC to some 5 year contract? With lottery luck we MIGHT be able to contend about the tome his contract is up. Rather just trade him for what we can, be it a 3rd or whatver.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Jesse on Locked On Penguins podcast today says the “soup’s gone bad,” by way of explanation for the current team woes lol…says they’re playing the same system Sullivan had in place 8 years ago— aggressive with two forecheckers back trying to break out pucks and because it’s stale and they’re older, it’s not working…thinks the players looking like a beer league team haven’t given up on Sullivan regardless of what it looks like…says they’re trying to play the system as implemented and just can’t lol…really damning towards the coach…again, why hasn’t he been fired yet? Also notes that teams have adjusted to Sullivan’s puck overload D system by throwing the puck to the other part of the ice and the players can’t adjust..why not try something else? lol

Yeah, I mean, no shit. This coach is trash and the roster has like 4 good players on it total.