Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[Gurglesons]

No he didn't. Matheson had 30 EVS points. Petry had 23. This team had an awful PP and Matheson 28pts would have help.

Also who cares if they are up this year. The point was to make the playoffs the last two years which both Hextall and Dubas failed.

Grandlund would have continued to be trash here because of the coach, which you can blame on Dubas but also on Hextall for acquiring a player the coach didnt want..

Also I am not trying to defend Dubas but but your continue defense of Hextall is weird. He was awful as well.

EVS and 5v5 are different.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The only way the Pens win that trade is if they win the Cup with EK here.
Otherwise the only purpose it served was to slow down progress of what's most important (the farm).

Since they won't win the Cup (or even a round) in his time here, it's an L. It's just wasted cap space.

We can like EK and still speak the truth at the same time. He's not worth 10M, and the Pens don't need him in the 11th hour of the Crosby era when they're already finished.
He can still command a good pick in return if they trade him, but the Pens will have to retain 50% to do that. Retention slots are precious for rebuilds.

Yeah I dunno, man. It doesn't have to be Cup or Bust for me 24/7. I'm fine watching for entertainment.

But this shit ain't entertaining. At all.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah he was great even if the number weren't overwhelming for the first like quarter season then Sullivan had that quote about coaching up Erik flippin' Karlsson (Mike Sullivan, by the way, never cracked double digit goals his whole career and broke 20 points once in 709 games) and the rest is history. I don't wanna be that guy that blames every single thing on the HC but I suspect that something was said to Malkin as well because he was on a heater to start as well and then suddenly started playing extremely conservatively and more than a little confused until right about after the TDL when it was clear shit didn't matter anymore.

I've said it repeatedly the last few years but I'd take a wide open style with complete disregard to defensive play, resulting in going 0-82 and losing every game 7-6 over whatever "student of the game", wannabe structured, play 'em to a draw bullshit they've been doing for years.

Wins and losses don't *really* f***ing matter when the team's window slammed shut years ago. Just go out and be fun to watch, that's all I've been asking for. Instead, we get to watch a team that's barely worthy of being background noise for the vast majority of the season, who's most entertaining when they're collapsing in utter fashion and pissing away leads late.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Yeah he was great even if the number weren't overwhelming for the first like quarter season then Sullivan had that quote about coaching up Erik flippin' Karlsson (Mike Sullivan, by the way, never cracked double digit goals his whole career and broke 20 points once in 709 games) and the rest is history. I don't wanna be that guy that blames every single thing on the HC but I suspect that something was said to Malkin as well because he was on a heater to start too and then suddenly started playing extremely conservatively and more than a little confused/indecisive until right about after the TDL when it was clear shit didn't matter anymore.

EDIT: Oh and also both guys suddenly found themselves off the top unit about the same time.

He's a 67 point defenseman over 82 games on average.
We got 56 out of him. Not that far off. We also got one of the best defensive years of his career, which pretty much mitigates that points disparity.

The problem wasn't EK, but rather people's ridiculous expectations after a massive outlier year.
People overestimated how much 1 player can help a sinking ship, and underestimated how much being on the modern Pens drags players down.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

He's a 67 point defenseman over 82 games on average.
We got 56 out of him. Not that far off. We also got one of the best defensive years of his career, which pretty much mitigates that points disparity.

The problem wasn't EK, but rather people's ridiculous expectations after a massive outlier year.
People overestimated how much 1 player can help a sinking ship, and underestimated how much being on the modern Pens drags players down.

I expected him to put up 60-70 and not play like morbid depression on skates. I don't think my expectations were out of whack at all. However I DID underestimate how badly this huckster coach and his stale-turd system can drag down even a talent like EK. Won't make that error again.

RIP to this idea that you can "increase offensive production from the backend" - at least on this team. I don't ever want to hear that logic again while Napoleon Beanpot is coach.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Yeah I dunno, man. It doesn't have to be Cup or Bust for me 24/7. I'm fine watching for entertainment.

But this shit ain't entertaining. At all.

I'm talking about what the objective of the team and sports should be, not what we want.
It wasn't a move conducive to winning it all. It was too late in the Crosby era for this. They needed to be contenders before his arrival for this to work, not require him to be amazing just to enter contender status.

Even if he's an 80 point guy, they're still gonna get bounced in R1 to some giant. It makes no difference.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm talking about what the objective of the team and sports should be, not what we want.
It wasn't a move conducive to winning it all. It was too late in the Crosby era for this. They needed to be contenders before his arrival for this to work, not require him to be amazing just to enter contender status.

Even if he's an 80 point guy, they're still gonna get bounced in R1 to some giant. It makes no difference.

I will agree that this team should have been trying a lot harder a lot sooner and that what goes on now is a little irrelevant. The time was like five seasons ago at the most to start making bold moves and truly reloading. But instead we got middling overpaid player after middling overpaid player. GMs just throwing around fliff on mediocrity... not even countin' it.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Napoleon Beanpot is a first ballot hall of fame nickname. Gahdamn.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I will agree that this team should have been trying a lot harder a lot sooner and that what goes on now is a little irrelevant. The time was like five seasons ago at the most to start making bold moves and truly reloading. But instead we got middling overpaid player after middling overpaid player. GMs just throwing around fliff on mediocrity... not even countin' it.

Right, it's the job of GMs to build winners. Dubas deluded himself into thinking this will make them legit threats. He was arrogant, and eager to make an impression on the hockey world with a big splash with his new team. He wanted to impress the fans and ownership.
He was talking about winning the division and all this bullshit.
Now he understands what the team is, and is adjusting the course.

I'll let a bad trade like this go if he makes up for it with others. He's already mostly done that. I like all the trades since. They make sense.
From this point on I'm more concerned that he'll make bad signings than trades.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Right, it's the job of GMs to build winners. Dubas deluded himself into thinking this will make them legit threats. He was arrogant, and eager to make an impression on the hockey world with a big splash with his new team. He wanted to impress the fans and ownership.
He was talking about winning the division and all this bullshit.
Now he understands what the team is, and is adjusting the course.

I'll let a bad trade like this go if he makes up for it with others. He's already mostly done that. I like all the trades since. They make sense.
From this point on I'm more concerned that he'll make bad signings than trades.

Dubas to me is a bit of a joke so long as Mike Sullivan remains employed.

Wanna talk about the job GMs are supposed to do... there is a prime example, right there. If he's not allowed then he's a joke AND pointless (and rich).

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I still can't believe that one to this day. It's like.. ya'll WEREN'T watching him get burned every night by this very team while he was in Columbus? Alright well if you insist I just... HOLY SHIT YOU'RE GONNA PAY HIM WHAT FOR HOW LONG?!?

“We know why he was scratched, and it wasn't because of his play” - Jim Rutherford

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Dubas to me is a bit of a joke so long as Mike Sullivan remains employed.

Wanna talk about the job GMs are supposed to do... there is a prime example, right there. If he's not allowed then he's a joke AND pointless (and rich).

FSG claimed he's allowed to do that, but they're known liars now.
I'm not sure what to believe. Dubas does seem pretty enthralled with Sully. If he's acting, he's very convincing at it.
The fact that Reirden kept his job that long tells me Sullivan has his claws in him pretty good.
To Dubas' credit though, he did man up and fire Reirden in the end. Reports were Sully was livid for that one and gave him a lot of heat for it.

That altercation also tells me how safe and powerful Sully feels he is here. It's sickening that this was allowed to happen. The organization has been corrupted.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

He was originally JR's pick, too. Even if JJ told him to go pound sand lol

I agree that there was an emotional component going on there, too. Possibly along with being Sid's friend (though I think the team just considered that a nice side "benefit" and didn't get any input from Crosby)

Super cool that the HC like... triple downed on playing him important minutes when it was well-established that he was garbo. But at least they vastly reduced his role and even scratched him when the games started to count in the playoffs.

Oh, Wait.

Not like they got swept by an inferior opponent that first year.

I nominate Napoleon Beanpot as the new HCMS moniker.

 

[Malkinstheman]

How nice of the NHL to give this geriatric team the least travel out of all 32 teams

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I will agree that this team should have been trying a lot harder a lot sooner and that what goes on now is a little irrelevant. The time was like five seasons ago at the most to start making bold moves and truly reloading. But instead we got middling overpaid player after middling overpaid player. GMs just throwing around fliff on mediocrity... not even countin' it.

I just wish they actually looked at the results and determined ok this team is in need of a new voice and really you can pick any of the years, I think at best they give him a pass for 2020-21 and 2021-22 and even the Habs series where I wanted him gone, its close enough to the 2 cups where I feel like ok fine, I can see why ownership gave him a pass.

But 2022-23 should have been when he was fired, then getting Karlsson, we might have seen better results just from a new voice behind the bench. But to expect changes with how they play when it's been the same shit without results since 2018, I don't get how they keep seeing that there hasn't been a mix of anyone that makes it work under Sullivan and even when they had Jake they missed and were going to miss before they dealt him, missed again in a year Sid scored 42 goals and both Sid, Geno and Letang all played 82 games which hasn't happened before.

Cooper, the coach that some cite as "well see if you keep the coach that's good for a while, they figure things out" well no not really. For one, Tampa heavily cheated the LTIR to win their back 2 backs and Cooper hasn't missed back 2 back playoffs as a coach in Tampa and the one year he did miss in a full season as a coach, he lost Stamkos for all but 17 games, so that was understandable.

 

[deakka]

I would also still do the EK trade.

I also see it as just sliding the 1st round pick. We gave it up this summer. But I'm pretty confident we will get a 1st for EK@ 50% (or equal value like 2nd+prospect) either in the summer before the last year of the deal or at the deadline.

So essentially just sliding the 1st a few seasons and get EK as a longer "rental" until then.

 

[Ugene Magic]

View attachment 908348
How nice of the NHL to give this geriatric team the least travel out of all 32 teams

I made a gif for this 2 months ago.

 

[eXile3]

McCann will always be my biggest slight against Hextall. The fact he chose Carter over him is ridiculous.

The fact he gave Carter that contract was ridiculous. Those two moves right there had a massive impact.

McCann went on to be the exact type of player we need and Carter would have one of the worst stretches of any Pens player ever after getting paid.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

McCann will always be my biggest slight against Hextall. The fact he chose Carter over him is ridiculous.

The fact he gave Carter that contract was ridiculous. Those two moves right there had a massive impact.

McCann went on to be the exact type of player we need and Carter would have one of the worst stretches of any Pens player ever after getting paid.

Your first mistake is assuming he would have ended up that way under Sullivan.

Which is a resounding no, he wouldn't have.

 

[Gurglesons]

McCann will always be my biggest slight against Hextall. The fact he chose Carter over him is ridiculous.

The fact he gave Carter that contract was ridiculous. Those two moves right there had a massive impact.

McCann went on to be the exact type of player we need and Carter would have one of the worst stretches of any Pens player ever after getting paid.

McCann was dealt because of Sullivan, not Hextall.

 

[eXile3]

Your first mistake is assuming he would have ended up that way under Sullivan.

Which is a resounding no, he wouldn't have.

It’s a piss poor excuse for giving a good player away.

 

[The Old Master]

It’s a piss poor excuse for giving a good player away.

and yet, here we are.

 

[SEALBound]

Your first mistake is assuming he would have ended up that way under Sullivan.

Which is a resounding no, he wouldn't have.

Maybe, maybe not. Who knows. A better GM would have done better than Hallander and a 7th though, especially last minute before the ED where you could have leveraged A LOT more out of Dubas. If you have him the next year and it's not working, you trade him out for similar value. McCann's value was higher than Hallander and a 7th. I don't really think that can be argued otherwise.

But it's more than that - Matheson to Petry, Marino for Smith and a 3rd, signs Rutta, resigns Carter, loses McCann and Tanev, not firing Sullivan. I mean, this entire roster took quite a dip with him and Dubas had a pay to fix it. Now, Dubas has made some blunders himself for sure but there was a lot of cleaning up to do. There's a reason Hextall got fired. He was bad at his job.

 

[Gurglesons]

Maybe, maybe not. Who knows. A better GM would have done better than Hallander and a 7th though, especially last minute before the ED where you could have leveraged A LOT more out of Dubas. If you have him the next year and it's not working, you trade him out for similar value. McCann's value was higher than Hallander and a 7th. I don't really think that can be argued otherwise.

But it's more than that - Matheson to Petry, Marino for Smith and a 3rd, signs Rutta, resigns Carter, loses McCann and Tanev, not firing Sullivan. I mean, this entire roster took quite a dip with him and Dubas had a pay to fix it. Now, Dubas has made some blunders himself for sure but there was a lot of cleaning up to do. There's a reason Hextall got fired. He was bad at his job.

Dubas paid Hallander and a 7th to give away Jared McCann for nothing.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm still disappointed that Hallander got pouty and took his ball home, just because the Penguins didn't guarantee him a roster spot at age 21. Hallander was another Ponomarev caliber guy and it did really stink to effectively lose him for nothing.