Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[Fordy]

Because Jakes team did want to negotiate. There’s never been any evidence otherwise other than speculation. Dubas wanted to see if the team was worth re-signing him or if they should rebuild.

And there is zero reason to hate Jake for getting market value. Why would you take a pay cut so Dubas can sign more players like Graves? Sid is a feakin saint for doing it.

i wasn’t even interested in having jake on this team any longer tbh

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Pfft, buzz kill.

It can easily be said that Jack Johnson was the worst signing because the team is STILL paying him.

I still can't believe that one to this day. It's like.. ya'll WEREN'T watching him get burned every night by this very team while he was in Columbus? Alright well if you insist I just... HOLY SHIT YOU'RE GONNA PAY HIM WHAT FOR HOW LONG?!?

I couldn’t legally drink in the U.S. when JR signed Jack Johnson…

I’ll be 29 when his cap hit comes off the books.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

It can easily be said that Jack Johnson was the worst signing because the team is STILL paying him.

Management decisions made from a place of emotions usually end that way.
I'm 90% sure he signed him to that deal because he drafted him and felt bad about his parents robbing him.

There was no justification for that deal at all. Just that prior season, he sucked in CBJ.
You don't throw 3.25M x 5 at #7 or #8 D-men unless you're doing it for other reasons then to win.

 

[eXile3]

i wasn’t even interested in having jake on this team any longer tbh

Because he was too good?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Management decisions made from a place of emotions usually end that way.
I'm 90% sure he signed him to that deal because he drafted him and felt bad about his parents robbing him.

There was no justification for that deal at all. Just that prior season, he sucked in CBJ.
You don't throw 3.25M x 5 at #7 or #8 D-men unless you're doing it for other reasons then to win.

He was originally JR's pick, too. Even if JJ told him to go pound sand lol

I agree that there was an emotional component going on there, too. Possibly along with being Sid's friend (though I think the team just considered that a nice side "benefit" and didn't get any input from Crosby)

Super cool that the HC like... triple downed on playing him important minutes when it was well-established that he was garbo. But at least they vastly reduced his role and even scratched him when the games started to count in the playoffs.

Oh, Wait.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Super cool that the HC like... triple downed on playing him important minutes when it was well-established that he was garbo.

He wouldn't have done that if he was European. No chance.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

He wouldn't have done that if he was European. No chance.

Well I'm not too sure. I will say that the Penguins have been very uh... Amero-centric if nothing else since the Shero era. And in general I think a lot of head coaches show favoritism towards NA guys.

But whatever was going on there was bizarre. I think there was pressure from JR too considering the crazy old bastard even went vehemently to bat for him and railed against Penguins fans for JJ's "treatment" while here even after he took his lolly and stomped off.

The team DID buck Graves down just last year after all. So it's not like they are totally blind to this sort of thing. It just seems often selective and somewhat random.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Because Jakes team did want to negotiate. There’s never been any evidence otherwise other than speculation. Dubas wanted to see if the team was worth re-signing him or if they should rebuild.

And there is zero reason to hate Jake for getting market value. Why would you take a pay cut so Dubas can sign more players like Graves? Sid is a feakin saint for doing it.

I don't hate Jake for getting market value, I think it made zero sense for this team to be paying Jake market value with the state of the team.

I'm not saying "I'm mad at Guentzel that he wouldn't take a pay cut", I'm saying "This team shouldn't have re-signed Guentzel unless it was coming in at an extremely team-friendly deal". I'm not villianizing Jake for wanting to get his retirement contract, I just hate the "poor old Guentzel!" schtick some people have done because the Penguins "wronged" him by not being willing to give him that deal.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The last three GMs have done bang-up jobs of freeing themselves from stupid mistakes only to burn the cap space on bullshit. I think it's fair to lampoon all of them.

It's actually an uncanny skill, if you think about it.

"Oh my God, they were able to move out that albatross Shitty Player X contract to free up cap space. This guy is a geniu ... ah nevermind he just signed Shitty Player Y with that cap space instead."

Rinse and repeat every single time.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It's actually an uncanny skill, if you think about it.

"Oh my God, they were able to move out that albatross Shitty Player X contract to free up cap space. This guy is a geniu ... ah nevermind he just signed Shitty Player Y with that cap space instead."

Rinse and repeat every single time.

Yeah it's funny to me that people are trying to paint one as any better than the other.

They're all goofs. After last season Dubas has a lot of work to do to pull himself out of "goof" territory.

 

[Empoleon8771]

On the blame game, I think last year can be attributed to Hextall but that excuse has completely dried up at this point. Hextall is no more responsible for the current state of the team than JR was, there is a bit there (simply because the draft picks JR and Hextall made should have been making the NHL now) but Dubas carries far more responsibility.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'll remember the roller coaster of emotions from the TDL that killed Hextall's career forever.

"Oh shit, he's finally dismantling this abysmal bottom-6, and he's not taking money back. Maybe he's freeing up space to bring in a bigger fish--Boeser, Chychrun?"

I also misread it as Garland, the other guy people kept bringing up when talking about the Vancouver-Pittsburgh rumors. Which I wasn't stoked with, but just kinda shrugged. Then it hit me that it was Mikael Granlund and I belly laughed.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah it's funny to me that people are trying to paint one as any better than the other.

They're all goofs. After last season Dubas has a lot of work to do to pull himself out of "goof" territory.

Dude, if EK didn't fall into Dubas' lap for basically just a 1st rounder, that first summer was f***ing dreadful.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'll remember the roller coaster of emotions from the TDL that killed Hextall's career forever.

"Oh shit, he's finally dismantling this abysmal bottom-6, and he's not taking money back. Maybe he's freeing up space to bring in a bigger fish--Boeser, Chychrun?"

I also misread it as Garland, the other guy people kept bringing up when talking about the Vancouver-Pittsburgh rumors. Which I wasn't stoked with, but just kinda shrugged. Then it hit me that it was Mikael Granlund and I belly laughed.

The Granlund addition sucked, but I'd honestly argue that we all pretty grossly overreacted to it. The Brassard trade JR made was miles worse than the Granlund trade Hextall made.

The trade was crap because Granlund was a bad player, but they also only traded a 2nd for him. It's not like the Brassard trade of Reaves, Cole, Gustavsson and a 1st for Brassard.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Dude, if EK didn't fall into Dubas' lap for basically just a 1st rounder, that first summer was f***ing dreadful.

At this point there is even a fairly convincing argument to be made that THAT was a moronic move.

I'm still fine with it because I love me some EK. But I'm just sayin'

 

[Gurglesons]

I'll remember the roller coaster of emotions from the TDL that killed Hextall's career forever.

"Oh shit, he's finally dismantling this abysmal bottom-6, and he's not taking money back. Maybe he's freeing up space to bring in a bigger fish--Boeser, Chychrun?"

I also misread it as Garland, the other guy people kept bringing up when talking about the Vancouver-Pittsburgh rumors. Which I wasn't stoked with, but just kinda shrugged. Then it hit me that it was Mikael Granlund and I belly laughed.

There is no end of hilarity that Granlund went on to put up 60 points after we moved him too.

And yeah "he played on a bad team".

Guess what guys. Also kinda funny that nobody sees the issue with us giving up a 1st and a 2nd to move those contracts and acquire a guy who put up 100 pts on that same bad team.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The Granlund addition sucked, but I'd honestly argue that we all pretty grossly overreacted to it. The Brassard trade JR made was miles worse than the Granlund trade Hextall made.

The trade was crap because Granlund was a bad player, but they also only traded a 2nd for him. It's not like the Brassard trade of Reaves, Cole, Gustavsson and a 1st for Brassard.

It's nearly impossible to match JR's psychosis, and yeah, they didn't pay much for Granlund--but adding what amounts to a $5M AAV paperweight who got like 40% of his production on the PP to be your shutdown 3C was an inspiring effort.

At this point there is even a fairly convincing argument to be made that THAT was a moronic move.

I'm still fine with it because I love me some EK. But I'm just sayin'

I'd do it again in a heartbeat, knowing how it turned out, because watching Granlund and Petry for another season would've been infinitely worse.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'd do it again in a heartbeat, knowing how it turned out, because watching Granlund and Petry for another season would've been infinitely worse.

I mean... maybe? At this point I just don't know. I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly and without hesitation this time last season but now it all seems utterly pointless. Even EK himself brings me no joy to watch as he's been largely cut off at the knees by a coach who thinks penalty killing is the top of the mountain.

I don't miss Petry, Granlund et al. But it didn't end up mattering one bit at all and in the meantime the team wasted more of those precious assets ya'll are suddenly yammering nonstop about. So that's bad, right?

 

[AuroraBorealis]

At this point there is even a fairly convincing argument to be made that THAT was a moronic move.

I'm still fine with it because I love me some EK. But I'm just sayin'

Yep. Dubas' worst decision so far.
If they kept everyone, they would have been free of all those contracts in summer 2025.
They woulda kept their 1st and not been paying a 7M value player 10M for 2 years beyond the other contracts.

Both scenarios would lead to no playoffs in both years. Nothing would have changed about the outcome.
So the Pens gained nothing through this course of action, other than hurting their prospect pool.

Well, scratch that. They gained ticket and jersey sales.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I mean... maybe? At this point I just don't know. I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly and without hesitation this time last season but now it all seems utterly pointless. Even EK himself brings me no joy to watch as he's been largely cut off at the knees by a coach who thinks penalty killing is the top of the mountain.

I don't miss Petry, Granlund et al. But it didn't end up mattering one bit at all and in the meantime the team wasted more of those precious assets ya'll are suddenly yammering nonstop about. So that's bad, right?

I was gonna say something to the effect of "It was a mid-1st and a 2nd rounder so you of all people shouldn't care" but I restrained myself.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yep. Dubas' worst decision so far.
If they kept everyone, they would have been free of all those contracts in summer 2025.
They woulda kept their 1st and not been paying a 7M value player 10M for 2 years beyond the other contracts.

Both scenarios would lead to no playoffs in both years. Nothing would have changed about the outcome.
So the Pens gained nothing through this course of action, other than hurting their prospect pool.

Well, scratch that. They gained ticket and jersey sales.

I mean... you know we disagree on a lot but it's getting tough to not see it this way. If EK can get back to being a dynamic player worth tuning in for every game next season then maybe I can feel a bit better about the whole thing but as it stands it's just kind of a big pointless boondoggle. Regardless I really, really WANT to be all about EK65 in a Pittsburgh sweater so I'm not prepared to like... utterly disavow it. It's just... sad.

I was gonna say something to the effect of "It was a mid-1st and a 2nd rounder so you of all people shouldn't care" but I restrained myself.

I might come off as grumpy but I don't ever want people to not make fun of me. Feel free.

 

[Darren McCord]

The roster that is currently made is on Dubas.

Hextall had very little impact on it.

We have Kevin Hayes and Ryan Graves as anchors instead of Granlund and Petry. Granlund put up 60 points on a bad team last year. He could've done that here since we have a bad team. Petry was a serviceable player in Detroit who outproduced Matheson at 5v5. Their contracts would also be up after this year giving us a ton of cap space to continue to acquire 2nd round picks.

No he didn't. Matheson had 30 EVS points. Petry had 23. This team had an awful PP and Matheson 28pts would have help.

Also who cares if they are up this year. The point was to make the playoffs the last two years which both Hextall and Dubas failed.

Grandlund would have continued to be trash here because of the coach, which you can blame on Dubas but also on Hextall for acquiring a player the coach didnt want..

Also I am not trying to defend Dubas but but your continue defense of Hextall is weird. He was awful as well.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I mean... you know we disagree on a lot but it's getting tough to not see it this way. If EK can get back to being a dynamic player worth tuning in for every game next season then maybe I can feel a bit better about the whole thing but as it stands it's just kind of a big pointless boondoggle. Regardless I really, really WANT to be all about EK65 in a Pittsburgh sweater so I'm not prepared to like... utterly disavow it. It's just... sad.



I might come off as grumpy but I don't ever want people to not make fun of me. Feel free.

I remember the GDTs of EK's first dozen games here. People were laughing that we as Pens fans ever held Letang up against EK because of how good he looked early on. The skating, transition work, finding guys with passes, etc. Then Sullivan's coaching got rooted in deep and that's that.

Much like every other issue affecting the team, the common denominator is the coach. It's f***ing insanity that this team (across multiple ownerships and FO regimes) is so steadfastly, head over heels in love with a guy who hasn't won a round in more than half a decade.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I mean... you know we disagree on a lot but it's getting tough to not see it this way. If EK can get back to being a dynamic player worth tuning in for every game next season then maybe I can feel a bit better about the whole thing but as it stands it's just kind of a big pointless boondoggle. Regardless I really, really WANT to be all about EK65 in a Pittsburgh sweater so I'm not prepared to like... utterly disavow it. It's just... sad.

The only way the Pens win that trade is if they win the Cup with EK here.
Otherwise the only purpose it served was to slow down progress of what's most important (the farm).

Since they won't win the Cup (or even a round) in his time here, it's an L. It's just wasted cap space.

We can like EK and still speak the truth at the same time. He's not worth 10M, and the Pens don't need him in the 11th hour of the Crosby era when they're already finished.
He can still command a good pick in return if they trade him, but the Pens will have to retain 50% to do that. Retention slots are precious for rebuilds.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I remember the GDTs of EK's first dozen games here. People were laughing that we as Pens fans ever held Letang up against EK because of how good he looked early on. The skating, transition work, finding guys with passes, etc. Then Sullivan's coaching got rooted in deep and that's that.

Much like every other issue affecting the team, the common denominator is the coach. It's f***ing insanity that this team (across multiple ownerships and FO regimes) is so steadfastly, head over heels in love with a guy who hasn't won a round in more than half a decade.

Yeah he was great even if the number weren't overwhelming for the first like quarter season then Sullivan had that quote about coaching up Erik flippin' Karlsson (Mike Sullivan, by the way, never cracked double digit goals his whole career and broke 20 points once in 709 games) and the rest is history. I don't wanna be that guy that blames every single thing on the HC but I suspect that something was said to Malkin as well because he was on a heater to start too and then suddenly started playing extremely conservatively and more than a little confused/indecisive until right about after the TDL when it was clear shit didn't matter anymore.

EDIT: Oh and also both guys suddenly found themselves off the top unit about the same time.