Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[HandshakeLine]

Frankie Corrado is pretty much a modern defense equivalent of playing-era Mike Sullivan.

 

[Andy99]

Speaking of players who remind me of someone, Beauvillier is giving me major Dom Simon vibes this season…effective at many things but stone hands and the coach over loves him lol and won’t sit him…

 

[Pancakes]

He's the exact type of fringe NHLer that knows what it'd be like to be marginalized by Sullivan.

I'm not really seeing the problem with a fringe NHLer getting marginalized by a coach. Fringe nhlers stink....that's why they're in and out of the lineup.

It's true with all coaches, but I think there's a difference in how quickly someone earns/loses Sullivan's trust compared to most other coaches.

Look at Puljujarvi for instance. For all intents and purposes, he's performed arguably the best among our bottom six "fringe" guys. Yet he seems to have the least rope. Other coaches may have looked at him with "prove it to me first" eyes, but they likely saw enough of that during pre-season and limited minutes early on to believe in him. With Sullivan it's like Puljujarvi has to be perfect EVERY SHIFT or he's going to find a reason to demote/scratch him.

Sullivan takes the adage about young guys having to earn the trust of the coach to idiotic, ridiculous levels.

I dunno man I think every coach is like this and I'm not seeing Sullivan as uniquely bad at this. He's just bad at it....like everyone. They all do this. Look around at the boards of every fanbase on here that isn't in the midst of a full scale rebuild and you'll probably find many of the same complaints being levied at their coaches.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Beauvillier isn't even Simon. Dude's Fata. Sucks shit.

And Bunting's somehow even worse.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm not really seeing the problem with a fringe NHLer getting marginalized by a coach. Fringe nhlers stink....that's why they're in and out of the lineup.

I dunno man I think every coach is like this and I'm not seeing Sullivan as uniquely bad at this. He's just bad at it....like everyone. They all do this. Look around at the boards of every fanbase on here that isn't in the midst of a full scale rebuild and you'll probably find many of the same complaints being levied at their coaches.

It's a problem because it further reinforces the fact that Sullivan has very little rope for players that aren't playing a complete game, but he gives rope to players that "earn his trust".

He's got wildly diffferent expectations for his unit and it's why we fail.

 

[Pancakes]

Beauvillier isn't even Simon. Dude's Fata. Sucks shit.

And Bunting's somehow even worse.

I am surprised at how lifeless Bunting looks out there. Very little scrumming or battling. He was doing both so well when he first came over last season. I guess he was just exhibit 919293394 of players who have a brief post trade bump in play and then go right back to being turds once they get comfortable.

It's a problem because it further reinforces the fact that Sullivan has very little rope for players that aren't playing a complete game, but he gives rope to players that "earn his trust".

He's got wildly diffferent expectations for his unit and it's why we fail.

I agree that it's a problem I'm just not sure it'd be any less of a problem with a different coach. Not with the current expectations that are in place for the org.

Imo the only way our young and/or fringe players start getting more rope is if the Pens admit to themselves that they're rebuilding. As long as they keep pretending that they're a playoff team then Sullivan or whatever other moron is behind the bench will keep playing vets as much as they possibly can because they think the mandate is to get into the playoffs at all costs.

 

[Gurglesons]

I am surprised at how lifeless Bunting looks out there. Very little scrumming or battling. He was doing both so well when he first came over last season. I guess he was just exhibit 919293394 of players who have a brief post trade bump in play and then go right back to being turds once they get comfortable.


I agree that it's a problem I'm just not sure it'd be any less of a problem with a different coach. Not with the current expectations that are in place for the org.

Imo the only way our young and/or fringe players start getting more rope is if the Pens admit to themselves that they're rebuilding. As long as they keep pretending that they're a playoff team then Sullivan or whatever other moron is behind the bench will keep playing vets as much as they possibly can because they think the mandate is to get into the playoffs at all costs.

Boston - playing youth in Poitras
Philly - playing tons of youth
Toronto - playing youth in Knies
Montreal playing tons of youth
Canes - playing youth in blake
Tampa - playing youth in Geekie

I don't really feel like wasting my time further.

Sullivan is a dinosaur who sucks at player evaluation.

 

[Pancakes]

Boston - playing youth in Poitras
Philly - playing tons of youth
Toronto - playing youth in Knies
Montreal playing tons of youth
Canes - playing youth in blake
Tampa - playing youth in Geekie

I don't really feel like wasting my time further.

Sullivan is a dinosaur who sucks at player evaluation.

Montreal and Philly are blatantly rebuilding so of course they're playing youth.

Knies/Blake/Geekie are all better prospects than anybody we have with the possible exception of Mcgroarty and Mcgroarty is younger than all of them.

I'll give you Boston. Playing Poitras was a bold move by them.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I dunno, Bunting looks more like he's trying to play the way Sullivan wants us to play, and that's the opposite issue of "being comfortable", from where I sit.

 

[Gurglesons]

Montreal and Philly are blatantly rebuilding so of course they're playing youth.

Knies/Blake/Geekie are all better prospects than anybody we have with the possible exception of Mcgroarty and Mcgroarty is younger than all of them.

I'll give you Boston. Playing Poitras was a bold move by them.

Geekie was taken a few spots ahead of McG.

Blake and Knies are both later round picks from 2021 when McG was taken in 2022.

What exactly are we doing? Dubas said we were bringing in a youth movement.

Where is the youth?

You said all coaches have the issue. I give you examples of multiple coaches playing youth (for the record Knies was playing last season).

Now it’s moving the narrative. Let’s stop pretending Mike Sullivan isn’t predisposed to not play young players.

 

[Pancakes]

Now it’s moving the narrative. Let’s stop pretending Mike Sullivan isn’t predisposed to not play young players.

You're posting examples of players who are better than any prospects we have. The only example you posted of a team taking a leap of faith with a prospect was Poitras. The rest of those guys are/were very obviously better than any prospects we had even before they broke onto the NHL scene.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Sullivan-adjacent, that dude Friedman that Sully hated basically just got assassinated in an AHL game. I've never seen a nondescript guy consistently get so much on-ice hate as that dude.

-edit- Also he's apparently playing forward?

 

[AuroraBorealis]

3 more years of Josh Anderson at 5.5M
20 points last year in 78GP. But dat snarl tho.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Sullivan-adjacent, that dude Friedman that Sully hated basically just got assassinated in an AHL game. I've never seen a nondescript guy consistently get so much on-ice hate as that dude.

-edit- Also he's apparently playing forward?

I miss having an agitator on the squad, but man Sully hated him.

I think Friedman also played F briefly here, no?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I miss having an agitator on the squad, but man Sully hated him.

I think Friedman also played F briefly here, no?

Maybe? I can't remember tbh.

Yeah, in the battle between two dogshit blueliners, I always wanted Ruh over Friedman. At least Friedman was a little shit.

 

[Gurglesons]

You're posting examples of players who are better than any prospects we have. The only example you posted of a team taking a leap of faith with a prospect was Poitras. The rest of those guys are/were very obviously better than any prospects we had even before they broke onto the NHL scene.

Nobody views Jackson Blake or Matt Knies as a better prospect than McGroarty.

McGroarty's NCAA numbers blow Knies' out of the water.

He put up comparable numbers to Blake's last season as a 19 year old.

You don't know what you are talking about at this point.

Sullivan sucks at developing young talent and does not give players a chance to play and build their game.

Many other coaches do.

 

[Gurglesons]

Maybe? I can't remember tbh.

Yeah, in the battle between two dogshit blueliners, I always wanted Ruh over Friedman. At least Friedman was a little shit.

Also knew you were a Ruhwedel truther.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I dunno man I think every coach is like this and I'm not seeing Sullivan as uniquely bad at this. He's just bad at it....like everyone. They all do this. Look around at the boards of every fanbase on here that isn't in the midst of a full scale rebuild and you'll probably find many of the same complaints being levied at their coaches.

Matthew Knies for Toronto got regular minutes on the third line for like the first quarter of the season as a rookie. He then got bumped up to get occasional minutes next to Matthews and Marner over the next 20-30 games, then got regular minutes next to Matthews and Marner the final 20 games. He had flaws in his game, but he was never benched or demoted to the AHL immediately.

Now compare that usage and rope to pretty much any forward prospect we've had under Sullivan since around 2019. Every single one of our prospects either gets 10 minutes per night in defensive roles or gets a couple of games in the top six and then immediately falls out of favor the second they don't produce.

We're a shit team this year, for Christ's sake, and we STILL can't be bothered to play rookies/youngsters in our lineup. It's one thing if you're a stacked Cup contender, but it's another when you're literally one of the worst teams in the league and desperately in need of a youth infusion.

It just seems weird to insist that Sullivan's no different than other coaches when there's plenty of example of other coaches actually using rookies/youngsters in their lineup.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It's true with all coaches, but I think there's a difference in how quickly someone earns/loses Sullivan's trust compared to most other coaches.

Look at Puljujarvi for instance. For all intents and purposes, he's performed arguably the best among our bottom six "fringe" guys. Yet he seems to have the least rope. Other coaches may have looked at him with "prove it to me first" eyes, but they likely saw enough of that during pre-season and limited minutes early on to believe in him. With Sullivan it's like Puljujarvi has to be perfect EVERY SHIFT or he's going to find a reason to demote/scratch him.

Sullivan takes the adage about young guys having to earn the trust of the coach to idiotic, ridiculous levels.

Sullivan sucks more than others because for a coach to go over everyone's heads to go directly to ownership to extend his contract even more is one of those pure weasel moves.

And the whole Puljujarvi usage and the rest of the roster is just more proof he's a dipshit of the highest order. King of dipshits.

I miss having an agitator on the squad, but man Sully hated him.

I think Friedman also played F briefly here, no?

Friedman played rw on the 4th line during a game when there was an injury or something I think. I liked Friedman, if he got a many games as Ruhwedel he would have been just as good as a 7th. But Chud Turdwedel was a Sully fav.

 

[Pancakes]

Matthew Knies for Toronto got regular minutes on the third line for like the first quarter of the season as a rookie. He then got bumped up to get occasional minutes next to Matthews and Marner over the next 20-30 games, then got regular minutes next to Matthews and Marner the final 20 games. He had flaws in his game, but he was never benched or demoted to the AHL immediately.

Now compare that usage and rope to pretty much any forward prospect we've had under Sullivan since around 2019. Every single one of our prospects either gets 10 minutes per night in defensive roles or gets a couple of games in the top six and then immediately falls out of favor the second they don't produce.

We're a shit team this year, for Christ's sake, and we STILL can't be bothered to play rookies/youngsters in our lineup. It's one thing if you're a stacked Cup contender, but it's another when you're literally one of the worst teams in the league and desperately in need of a youth infusion.

It just seems weird to insist that Sullivan's no different than other coaches when there's plenty of example of other coaches actually using rookies/youngsters in their lineup.

I'm too liquor3d up to argue atm so ima like this post instead

 

[Freeptop]

Okay. Pascal Dupuis did it in 2018. Is that enough for you?

I'm trying to figure out how Pascal Dupuis gives extra weight to talking about how Sullivan treats younger players, given that Dupuis was 29 when he first came to Pittsburgh... and didn't play for Sullivan until 6 years after that.

I'll also point out that people said the exact same things about Bylsma, when he was head coach. I've definitely heard the same complaint from several other fanbases.

That said, the number of prospects who have gotten anything close to a shot under Sullivan has dwindled over time. I suspect at least some of Sullivan being unusual in this regard is related to how unusual it is to retain a head coach for this long.

 

[cygnus47]

The fact that we are aware of the concept of letting rookies play through mistakes is proof that it’s not a problem for every coach all the time.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm trying to figure out how Pascal Dupuis gives extra weight to talking about how Sullivan treats younger players, given that Dupuis was 29 when he first came to Pittsburgh... and didn't play for Sullivan until 6 years after that.

I'll also point out that people said the exact same things about Bylsma, when he was head coach. I've definitely heard the same complaint from several other fanbases.

That said, the number of prospects who have gotten anything close to a shot under Sullivan has dwindled over time. I suspect at least some of Sullivan being unusual in this regard is related to how unusual it is to retain a head coach for this long.

Dupuis provided details on how Malkin, Sullivan and Kessel were not all on the same page because Malkin and Kessel weren't committed to playing a complete game.

I made a comment about how Frankie Corrado also said the same thing.

Let's continue to whiteknight Sullivan though.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I'm too liquor3d up to argue atm so ima like this post instead

I find this is the only way to get through a season of watching a Sullivan coached team at this point. So drunk that everything just ends up being hilarious.

 

[Andy99]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1853087963992711334

https://x.com/i/web/status/1853090231026700327

lol…