Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I can't really throw stones at Dubas for assets/drafting. Too early.

But I think it's funny that despite his very best efforts at torpedoing the roster they are still pushing for a playoff spot getting on to the halfway mark.

Kind of a weird spot to be in right now huh?

 

[IcedCapp]

I can't really throw stones at Dubas for assets/drafting. Too early.

But I think it's funny that despite his very best efforts at torpedoing the roster they are still pushing for a playoff spot getting on to the halfway mark.

Kind of a weird spot to be in right now huh?

this was always gonna be the problem when you kept Sid/Geno around. Not good enough to legit hard carry, but way way too good to bottom out

 

[Ryder71]

Sullivan and Dubas are operating on two different plains. Dubas wants to tear it down while Sullivan wants to cling to this exercise in futility and mediocrity. Hopefully Kyle tips the scales even further by trading off MP and Ricky Raks. MP will be gone, RR not so sure.

This is the internal battle we're all waiting to see. In the end I expect Dubas to win, but the core rallying here of late is making it very uncomfortable. At some point one would think the flaws and frailties of this team will overshadow anything else.

 

[Empoleon8771]

this was always gonna be the problem when you kept Sid/Geno around. Not good enough to legit hard carry, but way way too good to bottom out

Yeah which is also why I don't criticize Dubas for the state of the team, either.

The criticisms towards Dubas should be focused on the bad moves he has made. Dubas has done a poor job IMO but the state of the team today is likely what it would have been with any GM. Even without the mistakes Dubas has made, namely with UFA signings and the EK trade, this team is still likely in about the same spot.

So basically Dubas hasn't helped but the state of the team today was predetermined before Dubas even took over.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

this was always gonna be the problem when you kept Sid/Geno around. Not good enough to legit hard carry, but way way too good to bottom out

I dunno. When I had a look at what they were rolling with this year I figured even THESE guys couldn't carry that weight at near 40. They've got like 9+ million tied up in trash heap players that have done near nothing this year. That alone is like tying a giant bolder around the rest of the roster's neck.

It's pretty ugly. And now I feel like a direction is that much more conflicted.

If Sid and Malkin are still good enough to do that maybe they should have been given a little more time...

 

[Jag68Sid87]

That's all well and good, but he ultimately makes the decision as to who plays or not. To suggest he's gonna blindly defer to Quinn regarding the defense I'm not buying it.

With forwards it's quite simple really. He's risk averse and doesn't like guys who aren't disciplined or don't play with structure. Well, in his way of thinking. However if you have mad skill like Geno and EK for example he'll bend the rules a bit. Depth forwards not so much.

He bends the rules with Noel Acciari. He bent the rules with a washed-up Jeff Carter. It is nowhere near as simple as you suggest.

 

[IcedCapp]

I dunno. When I had a look at what they were rolling with this year I figured even THESE guys couldn't carry that weight at near 40. They've got like 9+ million tied up in trash heap players that have done near nothing this year. That alone is like tying a giant bolder around the rest of the roster's neck.

It's pretty ugly. And now I feel like a direction is that much more conflicted.

If Sid and Malkin are still good enough to do that maybe they should have been given a little more time...

I was pro keeping the core around simply because I thought, with the right amount of ... good (maybe they had to be perfect?) moves, they could still be a 5th-8th seed in the east. And once you're in, who knows what happens. I'm a Dubas fan, but I've hated almost every one of his signings. I feel like he fell into the same trap JR and Hextall did: he fixed mistakes (he got rid of all of our perceived "problem players" in the EK trade) and then re-made the same mistakes with different players, instead of just using the cap space (something like $20MM, right?) to make significant upgrades to positions of need, if the core was going to compete, and letting young players man the bottom-6. Instead we just used every single penny on bland bottom-6 guys. Just infuriating.

Yeah which is also why I don't criticize Dubas for the state of the team, either.

The criticisms towards Dubas should be focused on the bad moves he has made. Dubas has done a poor job IMO but the state of the team today is likely what it would have been with any GM. Even without the mistakes Dubas has made, namely with UFA signings and the EK trade, this team is still likely in about the same spot.

So basically Dubas hasn't helped but the state of the team today was predetermined before Dubas even took over.

I generally agree. I've disliked most of Dubas' signings, but I don't think I've had an issue with any of his trades. In fact, I think all of his trades have been really good. I guess the only 'nothing' trade is Eller, where you could probably convince me he was worth a little more if you held on until the deadline, and I hate helping the Caps, but even then, it was, by no means, a bad trade. And he's been stockpiling future assets, which I really like, since it's clear he doesn't need them right now if they aren't going to truly compete.


mid-posting edit: I guess people will have issues with the Guentzel trade. I still give it an incomplete. We have to see how the players pan out. But I don't really care that he missed out on a late 1st.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I was pro keeping the core around simply because I thought, with the right amount of ... good (maybe they had to be perfect?) moves, they could still be a 5th-8th seed in the east. And once you're in, who knows what happens. I'm a Dubas fan, but I've hated almost every one of his signings. I feel like he fell into the same trap JR and Hextall did: he fixed mistakes (he got rid of all of our perceived "problem players" in the EK trade) and then re-made the same mistakes with different players, instead of just using the cap space (something like $20MM, right?) to make significant upgrades to positions of need, if the core was going to compete, and letting young players man the bottom-6. Instead we just used every single penny on bland bottom-6 guys. Just infuriating.

I flipped on Dubas quick after the way he handled last year. It's one thing to let Sullivan keep his job forever (which is already ridiculous) but to allow the utterly moronic assistant coach heading up a historically awful powerplay all season long just... linger... was too much for me. Then to follow it up by kneecapping the roster with a bunch of trash and cap dumps was just... I dunno... a choice.

I will say that I think Mike Sullivan has a huge amount of latitude with the roster construction. More than many of his peers for sure. I hesitate to say he just makes a list, hands it to the GM and they go get what he wants. But I don't think it's too far off from that. I know I come off like I blame that guy for literally everything including the break room always being outta good coffee but I don't know that after all these years and his golden calf status if it's that much of a stretch.

 

[IcedCapp]

I flipped on Dubas quick after the way he handled last year. It's one thing to let Sullivan keep his job forever (which is already ridiculous) but to allow the utterly moronic assistant coach heading up a historically awful powerplay all season long just... linger... was too much for me. Then to follow it up by kneecapping the roster with a bunch of trash and cap dumps was just... I dunno... a choice.

I will say that I think Mike Sullivan has a huge amount of latitude with the roster construction. More than many of his peers for sure. I hesitate to say he just makes a list, hands it to the GM and they go get what he wants. But I don't think it's too far off from that. I know I come off like I blame that guy for literally everything including the break room always being outta good coffee but I don't know that after all these years and his golden calf status if it's that much of a stretch.

It seems pretty reasonable to blame him for as much as you want. The dude was defacto dictator after Hextall was fired. FSG is in love with him in an uncomfortable way.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I dunno. When I had a look at what they were rolling with this year I figured even THESE guys couldn't carry that weight at near 40. They've got like 9+ million tied up in trash heap players that have done near nothing this year. That alone is like tying a giant bolder around the rest of the roster's neck.

It's pretty ugly. And now I feel like a direction is that much more conflicted.

If Sid and Malkin are still good enough to do that maybe they should have been given a little more time...

There is no conflict. We are one point out of a playoff spot. Dubas is committed to keeping future assets and adding to it. But we have a flawed roster, made more so by a head coach more set in his ways than Archie Bunker.

We are in a playoff chase, but many here are still stuck on the draft lottery. Sad, really.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It seems pretty reasonable to blame him for as much as you want. The dude was defacto dictator after Hextall was fired. FSG is in love with him in an uncomfortable way.

I just figure people get sick of hearing about it and I get it. But yeah.

It's gotten so bad that I don't even think he ever really WAS a good coach. I think he... like those that came before him... rode the wave. His track record as a bench boss is f***ing miserable outside of those two (very very important) years.

That's probably a wrong take. But I'm just so sick of the guy that it has colored every opinion I ever held on him.

 

[IcedCapp]

I just figure people get sick of hearing about it and I get it. But yeah.

It's gotten so bad that I don't even think he ever really WAS a good coach. I think he... like those that came before him... rode the wave. His track record as a bench boss is f***ing miserable outside of those two (very very important) years.

That's probably a wrong take. But I'm just so sick of the guy that it has colored every opinion I ever held on him.

You have media outlets (ESPN) commenting on how weird it is he can't/won't be fired. You have a storied franchise being embarrassed in their last few trips to the playoffs and now being embarrassed by not even making the playoffs. You have two of the greatest players of all time, both playing at a good-enough level to win games, you have fans getting restless, and yet the question of his job security is not even broached locally.

I don't care about the criticisms of Sullivan, not because I think they're invalid or untrue or whatever, I just don't think they matter, because the Penguins are the f***ing twilight zone of coaching right now.

I'm not a Steelers fan, but I imagine it's similar to how you guys feel about Tomlin sometimes?

quick topic change: I mentioned this like a week or two ago - i know people like that the 1st line is scoring, but Crosby is a -10 right now, that would be the worst mark for his entire career if the season ended today. The 1st line is on the ice for so many goals. I know it's a 5-man effort to make that happen, and the blue line is dealing with injuries, etc... but I'd really like to see the 1st line tweaked in some way to get a little better 200ft play.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

You have media outlets (ESPN) commenting on how weird it is he can't/won't be fired. You have a storied franchise being embarrassed in their last few trips to the playoffs and now being embarrassed by not even making the playoffs. You have two of the greatest players of all time, both playing at a good-enough level to win games, you have fans getting restless, and yet the question of his job security is not even broached locally.

I don't care about the criticisms of Sullivan, not because I think they're invalid or untrue or whatever, I just don't think they matter, because the Penguins are the f***ing twilight zone of coaching right now.

I'm not a Steelers fan, but I imagine it's similar to how you guys feel about Tomlin sometimes?

I am an erstwhile Steelers fan at best but yes... only I think this is actually worse in some ways because there is like ZERO precedent for holding on to failure coaches like grim death in the NHL which makes the Penguins situation all the more confusing. At least at the NFL level where coaching is a completely different dynamic and leans far more heavily on assistants you could make a case for having a long-tenured head coach.

 

[Ryder71]

There is no conflict. We are one point out of a playoff spot. Dubas is committed to keeping future assets and adding to it. But we have a flawed roster, made more so by a head coach more set in his ways than Archie Bunker.

We are in a playoff chase, but many here are still stuck on the draft lottery. Sad, really.

If Dubas sincerely believes this is a playoff caliber team he'd buy,( but he won't). Sid and Geno have avoided injuries longer than anytime in their careers, that can't continue. If they weren't good enough two years ago to make the playoffs they aren't good enough now, - Jake, with a goalie who gives up a goal almost every single outing in his first five shots and has an abysmal goal differential. This run isn't sustainable.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah, Sullivan's job security in the face of this steep and steady decline is wild. I don't think I've ever seen anything like it tbh. Nearing on a decade of ever worsening results and yet it feels pointless to even wonder if he'll be fired or kick around ideas for his replacement. Spanning multiple FO regimes and ownership groups.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

quick topic change: I mentioned this like a week or two ago - i know people like that the 1st line is scoring, but Crosby is a -10 right now, that would be the worst mark for his entire career if the season ended today. The 1st line is on the ice for so many goals. I know it's a 5-man effort to make that happen, and the blue line is dealing with injuries, etc... but I'd really like to see the 1st line tweaked in some way to get a little better 200ft play.

I've been saying that for weeks but good luck with that one. You aren't wrong, though.

 

[Khelandros]

disappointing. Pulu is better than acciari and nieto by far. but the pk has been 'hot' and we've been winning so gotta stay status quo. even though nieto isn't gonna score a goal the entire season.

Friend,

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

Have fun with this one everyone.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

You have media outlets (ESPN) commenting on how weird it is he can't/won't be fired. You have a storied franchise being embarrassed in their last few trips to the playoffs and now being embarrassed by not even making the playoffs. You have two of the greatest players of all time, both playing at a good-enough level to win games, you have fans getting restless, and yet the question of his job security is not even broached locally.

Are you talking about the Penguins or Steelers?

Seriously though. f*** both of the Mikes in Pittsburgh...

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Have fun with this one everyone.

This is a man who knows there are no consequences and is basically just trolling, now.

 

[Ryder71]

Petts back tonight.

 

[Khelandros]

Have fun with this one everyone.

Why is Sullivan commenting on why players are being put on waivers? Unless.....

 

[IcedCapp]

Have fun with this one everyone.

"The player is gonna have a chance to play games," says man directly responsible for denying player the ability to play in games

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

"The kid deserves to play, he's a good hockey player. For us? Oh, god no." *bursts into laughter while walking away*

 

[IcedCapp]

"We're still trying to find the people responsible for denying this kid play time. We'll get to the bottom of this, trust us"