Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "But if you don't get the President of the Pittsburgh Penguins on that phone, you know what's gonna happen to you?"

[Smasher]

I'll take this up and down start where we look good for long stretches over the start we had last season, where the team went on a 10-something game winning streak and looked suspect for most of it. It is early and the issues are fixable. Sully is probably going to Sully, but at least now we have a competent GM. Will be interesting to see.

 

[K Fleur]

I think DOC will break out soon.

We all just need to post about him maybe 10,00 more times, that should make it happen.

 

[eXile3]

I think DOC will break out soon.

We all just need to post about him maybe 10,00 more times, that should make it happen.

I think with the type of player DOC is he needs to play with some talent and we have zero of that in the bottom 6.

 

[pistolpete11]

He finally meshes with a winger and I'm sure Sullivan's itching like a tosser with full on crabs to f*** it up the moment Sid's line struggles for a couple of games.

If Smith looks this good with a bum like Malkin, just imagine what he'd look like next to Sid and Jake

 

[vodeni]

Back to back cups buys a long leash, especially when you maintain the respect of the core.

The coaches who have won multiple cups in the cap era are Sullivan, Jon Cooper, Joel Quenneville and Darryl Sutter.

Sutter outright missed the playoffs in two of the three years after winning his second cup with LA. Plus, his abrasive style has a shorter shelf life.

Quenneville lasted three seasons plus a couple months of a fourth after Chicago's last cup. He was largely fired as a scapegoat for Stan Bowman's mismanagement after the last cup. Plus, given all we know now about Chicago, the place was pretty dysfunctional around that time.

Cooper has the best job security in the league.

Bruce Cassidy made it twice and won once. He was fired in Boston because he lost the core. If David Krejci would rather leave the NHL than play for you, that's a problem.

Peter Laviolette won once and lost twice, but his Capitals tenure was roundly criticized by Kuzy and others.

So, there's a theme with those who have been fired after winning cups -- they lost the core of their respective teams.

I think it also helps Sullivan that there are plausible excuses for many of the Pens' end results of late. They clearly ran out of gas in 2018 vs the Caps. I think the sweep vs the Isles in 2019 should be a knock against Sullivan. I think the bubble in 2020 is viewed as a crapshoot (see Montreal's run). You have Jarry imploding with no legit back-up in 2021 vs the Isles and Dominique in 2022 vs the Rangers.

I blame last year on Hextall, but for arguments sake we can blame Sullivan.

That's really only two years that he should shoulder most of the blame - 2019 and 2023.

I cannot blame him for the goalie fiascos in 2021 and 2022. Dustin Tokarski wasn't going to do anything in 2021, and Louis Domingue realistically wasn't much of a better option in 2022. I know we saw Adin Hill elevate Vegas last year, but Hill is better than Domingue and Tokarski, and Vegas was better equipped to insulate him by being able to roll four lines and having a deeper defense group.

So, in context, I don't think Sullivan's longevity is all that wild.

he is in a good position to win this year again

 

[vodeni]

I'll take this up and down start where we look good for long stretches over the start we had last season, where the team went on a 10-something game winning streak and looked suspect for most of it. It is early and the issues are fixable. Sully is probably going to Sully, but at least now we have a competent GM. Will be interesting to see.

This is a little nugget that no one has brought up until now. I swear we looked way better last night in this loss to Wings than in 80% of those wins last year. EK is such a major difference here, as long as they don't succed in trying to put him in the "System" and as long s they see a little bit of desperation earlier in mixing up the lines I think they should be OK (Sid and Geno free of injuries notwithstanding)

 

[Andy99]

I think there is a belief among some NHL folks that the Penguins are damned if they do and damned if they don't because of the age of the core, and thus Sullivan shouldn't be faulted if they come up short.

I'm not sure if Dubas subscribes to that belief, but I do think he's pretty pragmatic while still believing the franchise should try whatever it can to win in the waning years of the core.

Agree with this belief but also think if the team REALLY wanted to put the team they have in the best position to make a run, Sullivan would be fired…because making Sid and the core comfortable appears to be the first priority to me…so that means they’ve given up…the team espouses the desire to win but I think it’s wink-wink because it comes with too many constrictions

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

It’s really getting old blaming every single wrong bounce on Sullivan, especially through 4 games. And I think he’s stale!

The problems are so fixable.

It would maybe be panic time through 4 games if 87 or 71 were looking like Ovi is; or if the new guys in Smith or EK looked like shit.

A lot harder to find top 6 players and top pairing D than bottom pair and bottom sixers. Malkin is rejuvenated. EK looks both ridiculously good and motivated. Letang has been a team guy and adjusted to a much different role super well- kudos to him. Rust (who needs to be good) is scoring so far. There’s a lot to like here and build off of.

 

[vodeni]

It’s really getting old blaming every single wrong bounce on Sullivan, especially through 4 games. And I think he’s stale!

The problems are so fixable.

It would maybe be panic time through 4 games if 87 or 71 were looking like Ovi is; or if the new guys in Smith or EK looked like shit.

A lot harder to find top 6 players and top pairing D than bottom pair and bottom sixers. Malkin is rejuvenated. EK looks both ridiculously good and motivated. Letang has been a team guy and adjusted to a much different role super well- kudos to him. Rust (who needs to be good) is scoring so far. There’s a lot to like here and build off of.

I agree. Have the same feeling. The only problem is I don't trust Sully to fix "fixable" things because of his ego and arrogance he developed. I mas be wrong, I hope I am wrong.

 

[Turin]

I would like to see Dubas take a page out of Shero’s book and simply waive Carter.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I would like to see Dubas take a page out of Shero’s book and simply waive Carter.

NMC- he can’t.

 

[Victor Z]

I wish we had a coach who had some job security and full overwhelming support from the ownership.

Then maybe that coach wouldn't be so timid about making necessary moves or even experimentally shaking things up and trying new things for more than about 30 seconds. Instead of being so afraid of change that he sticks endlessly with combinations (and players in the lineup) that are proven failures.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think the issue is if they flame out what else do you do?

Dubas can’t blame the goaltending. He gave Jarry the contract.

He won’t blame the vets. He’s double downed on them.

He gave Sullivan what Sullivan wanted and made the big trade.

Only one head to fall there especially with the trade protection that is so prevalent.

They can also do nothing. If this team doesn't lose to Chicago in regulation and end up squeaking into the playoffs, I'm not even sure Hextall is fired tbh.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

It'd be cool if this team could dangle more valuable pieces like Rust or Rakell, or if Carter didn't have an ironclad contract that prevents the team from doing anything with him.

I'm not sure what moving a guy like POJ is gonna do, and I think he's leaps and bounds more attractive an asset than somebody like DOC, or worse.

The effect Sullivan, JR, and Hextall had on this team since the back to backs has been pretty devastating and deflating.

Yea we stuck with contracts.

I would like to see Dubas take a page out of Shero’s book and simply waive Carter.

NMC. If we didn't have his contract I would take POJs brother from Ottawa for free. I'm not even talking about his 4 points in 4 games.

I am talking about his PK ability and 25 to 30 points in a bottom 6 role where he plays fast and hard.

 

[vodeni]

They can also do nothing. If this team doesn't lose to Chicago in regulation and end up squeaking into the playoffs, I'm not even sure Hextall is fired tbh.

good point...

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I wish we had a coach who had some job security and full overwhelming support from the ownership.

Then maybe that coach wouldn't be so timid about making necessary moves or even experimentally shaking things up and trying new things for more than about 30 seconds. Instead of being so afraid of change that he sticks endlessly with combinations (and players in the lineup) that are proven failures.

Needs another contract extension beyond the one that hasn't even started yet imo.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think with the type of player DOC is he needs to play with some talent and we have zero of that in the bottom 6.

O'Connor is playing himself to waivers more than he's playing himself into that kind of role.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The fascination with DOC that this place has is straight up bizarre. I love it. It's like a football team's fanbase being obsessed with a 2nd string punter.

 

[Gurglesons]

The fascination with DOC that this place has is straight up bizarre. I love it. It's like a football team's fanbase being obsessed with a 2nd string punter.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Ultimately, I think the only way you're solving the bottom-6 scoring issues is one of:

1. Sullivan simplifying his offensive system for the bottom-6 guys to be a more crash the net, cycling heavy style. The bottom-6 guys they have simply do not have the skill needed to produce in Sullivan's offensive system, they need to have a simpler offensive game.

2. Push at least one of the top-6 wingers to the 3rd line and just accept the unproductive 4th line. I actually think just having Smith on the 3rd line would be a gamechanger for that line, but he absolutely shouldn't be taken away from Malkin. O'Connor-Eller-Smith should be a terrific 3rd line if they ever ran with it, even with O'Connor's Casper impersonation.

3. Somehow trade for another Reilly Smith type of player to anchor the 3rd line, but I have no clue how they have either the assets or cap space for this.

Personally, I think #2 is the best way to fix the 3rd line but I hate the idea of splitting up Malkin and Smith. I don't think Rakell or Rust would have a large enough impact on the 3rd line to do what Smith could do in that role. I also have no clue who would step into their top-6 roles because they have no one who fits what those roles need.

If I had to make a choice though, I'd probably call up Puustinen and push Rakell to L3. Run with:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Smith-Malkin-Puustinen
O'Connor-Eller-Rakell

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

View attachment 754690

You're trying too hard.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Ultimately, I think the only way you're solving the bottom-6 scoring issues is one of:

1. Sullivan simplifying his offensive system for the bottom-6 guys to be a more crash the net, cycling heavy style. The bottom-6 guys they have simply do not have the skill needed to produce in Sullivan's offensive system, they need to have a simpler offensive game.

2. Push at least one of the top-6 wingers to the 3rd line and just accept the unproductive 4th line. I actually think just having Smith on the 3rd line would be a gamechanger for that line, but he absolutely shouldn't be taken away from Malkin. O'Connor-Eller-Smith should be a terrific 3rd line if they ever ran with it, even with O'Connor's Casper impersonation.

3. Somehow trade for another Reilly Smith type of player to anchor the 3rd line, but I have no clue how they have either the assets or cap space for this.

Personally, I think #2 is the best way to fix the 3rd line but I hate the idea of splitting up Malkin and Smith. I don't think Rakell or Rust would have a large enough impact on the 3rd line to do what Smith could do in that role. I also have no clue who would step into their top-6 roles because they have no one who fits what those roles need.

If I had to make a choice though, I'd probably call up Puustinen and push Rakell to L3. Run with:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Smith-Malkin-Puustinen
O'Connor-Eller-Rakell

I've been advocating for something like this since last year. Only I don't think the third line works until you get two of the existing top-six forwards on it. I like your second line. I also like Rust - Eller - Rakell for a third line. Rotate O'Connor/WBS callups on L1 to see if anything sticks. Having two callups on the top two lines may drag them down too much. If that's the case, abandon the idea. But I think it should be tried.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm not sure this team really has any guys to call up who stand to make a difference. Puustinen has two shots on goal, no points, and is a -2 through two games for WBS. Poulin's basically in the same boat.

I have no clue how Dubas manages it, but in order to sort things out, I can't see a way that doesn't include adding a Smith-or-better player to the top-6.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I think with the type of player DOC is he needs to play with some talent and we have zero of that in the bottom 6.

I think the issue with DOC is he doesn't think the game at the NHL level. He's got some physical tools to be effective now and then when his natural gifts take over, but I don't think he reads the play well enough to be consistently effective.

Maybe that comes with more experience, who knows. But right now, he just looks like he's all over the place with no clear cut idea of what he should be doing or where he should be on any given shift.

 

[Darren McCord]

Ultimately, I think the only way you're solving the bottom-6 scoring issues is one of:

1. Sullivan simplifying his offensive system for the bottom-6 guys to be a more crash the net, cycling heavy style. The bottom-6 guys they have simply do not have the skill needed to produce in Sullivan's offensive system, they need to have a simpler offensive game.

2. Push at least one of the top-6 wingers to the 3rd line and just accept the unproductive 4th line. I actually think just having Smith on the 3rd line would be a gamechanger for that line, but he absolutely shouldn't be taken away from Malkin. O'Connor-Eller-Smith should be a terrific 3rd line if they ever ran with it, even with O'Connor's Casper impersonation.

3. Somehow trade for another Reilly Smith type of player to anchor the 3rd line, but I have no clue how they have either the assets or cap space for this.

Personally, I think #2 is the best way to fix the 3rd line but I hate the idea of splitting up Malkin and Smith. I don't think Rakell or Rust would have a large enough impact on the 3rd line to do what Smith could do in that role. I also have no clue who would step into their top-6 roles because they have no one who fits what those roles need.

If I had to make a choice though, I'd probably call up Puustinen and push Rakell to L3. Run with:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Smith-Malkin-Puustinen
O'Connor-Eller-Rakell

I’ve been advocating this from the get go. This was my issue with them not trying puustinen in the top 6 at all in camp.

You knew what the top six was.