Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

This team spends like 80% of the game pushing the puck up and down the walls, chipping and chasing but not actually being able to do it, working the puck low to high only for their generally poor-shooting defensemen to take some unscreened prayer and acting like most of the middle parts of the ice are hot lava.

It's a wonder they score at all.

EDIT: Not to mention how unbelievably scripted everything is. Especially in the OZ and off faceoffs. This team is obsessed with faceoff set plays. And I mean... if I know that every other team in the league knows that.

 

[Andy99]

Here’s Farkas on the subject…of course, he’s a scout so he’ll look at players first but he’s not wrong…

 

[BusinessGoose]

I figured throughout the summer there would be odd rabbit hole discussions about odd trade proposals or signings. I did NOT see, of all people, PLD becoming a hot topic that dominates discussion here. Woof. Is it October yet?

Dudes name was on the forum around the TDL

i think @Gurglesons has been the driver of it?

 

[Andy99]

Another fun one, people…it’s been awhile since I heard accountability and Penguins in the same sentence lol

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/joe-starkey/2024/05/02/kyle-dubas-mike-sullivan-devils-sidney-crosby-evgeni-malkin-nhl-offseason/stories/202404290121

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

Why is bald Todd still here? I do not like bald Todd, I have spoken.

 

[SEALBound]

This team spends like 80% of the game pushing the puck up and down the walls, chipping and chasing but not actually being able to do it, working the puck low to high only for their generally poor-shooting defensemen to take some unscreened prayer and acting like most of the middle parts of the ice are hot lava.

It's a wonder they score at all.

EDIT: Not to mention how unbelievably scripted everything is. Especially in the OZ and off faceoffs. This team is obsessed with faceoff set plays. And I mean... if I know that every other team in the league knows that.

In juniors one year, I got yelled at for "breaking the cycle". I sent it down the boards and instead of recycling back down low to, again, cycle the puck, I bumped out to the slot looking for the shot from either of the other two. When the coach yelled at me I said, "Hey, the cycle has to have an end game...that should be a shot on net. If all we do it cycle...then all we will do is cycle". Not saying that ended my career but the coach didn't like it. Next year, I elected to do other things with my life.

I feel like our perimeter and down-low game's entire goal is to "cycle, move the puck down low, get it to the points, cycle, then move it low, then back to the point...". Very rarely do I see them orchestrate any slot presence from the cycle to get a high-danger chance. More often than not, our entire cycle game is funneled to "get the puck to the point and let them shoot". If you have 6 Karlssons, that may be fine, but more often than not, we funnel shooting opportunities to guys who shouldn't be shooting option #1. Again, this is a coaching and roster construction issue.

Here’s Farkas on the subject…of course, he’s a scout so he’ll look at players first but he’s not wrong…

They traded away Kessel, then Sprong, now Jake...I mean, he's spot on. With the exception of Sid, there's no one on this squad that is an exceptional shooter. This is why I want them to cultivate young Yager soooooo much on that front. I'd be telling that kid to let loose at any and all opportunities on whichever team he's on.

 

[66-30-33]

Why is bald Todd still here? I do not like bald Todd, I have spoken.

Because Sullivan wants to keep him OR ELSE!!!

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

In juniors one year, I got yelled at for "breaking the cycle". I sent it down the boards and instead of recycling back down low to, again, cycle the puck, I bumped out to the slot looking for the shot from either of the other two. When the coach yelled at me I said, "Hey, the cycle has to have an end game...that should be a shot on net. If all we do it cycle...then all we will do is cycle". Not saying that ended my career but the coach didn't like it. Next year, I elected to do other things with my life.

I feel like our perimeter and down-low game's entire goal is to "cycle, move the puck down low, get it to the points, cycle, then move it low, then back to the point...". Very rarely do I see them orchestrate any slot presence from the cycle to get a high-danger chance. More often than not, our entire cycle game is funneled to "get the puck to the point and let them shoot". If you have 6 Karlssons, that may be fine, but more often than not, we funnel shooting opportunities to guys who shouldn't be shooting option #1. Again, this is a coaching and roster construction issue.

Absolutely 100% spot on.

And I used to get yelled at for the same thing lol... I imagine part of the reason I kinda despise coaching in this league is I see the same pointless Neanderthal shit at the highest levels that I did in like high school. Stupid then... stupid now.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

Because Sullivan wants to keep him OR ELSE!!!

 

[The Old Master]

The deeper issue there is coaching and to a slightly lesser extent, the roster make up. If you keep giving Sid and Geno the players that make them comfy in playing the style they've played for the last 15 years, don't be surprised when we see a lot of "comfy" plays. Double that with building a bottom 6 that has no offensive IQ, again it's not hard to arrive to these conclusions.

I agree with Jesse that, quite actually, the adv stats DID meet the eye test. You just can't have a Ryan Wilson level of understanding about it for it to make sense.

everything you listed is a coaching problem. even the roster makeup. if any player doesn't know what or how to do something it's up to the coach to teach them. now if they simply lack the ability, then you can look at the gm.

Here’s Farkas on the subject…of course, he’s a scout so he’ll look at players first but he’s not wrong…

still sounds a lot like a coaching problem to me

 

[molon labe]

In juniors one year, I got yelled at for "breaking the cycle". I sent it down the boards and instead of recycling back down low to, again, cycle the puck, I bumped out to the slot looking for the shot from either of the other two. When the coach yelled at me I said, "Hey, the cycle has to have an end game...that should be a shot on net. If all we do it cycle...then all we will do is cycle". Not saying that ended my career but the coach didn't like it. Next year, I elected to do other things with my life.

I feel like our perimeter and down-low game's entire goal is to "cycle, move the puck down low, get it to the points, cycle, then move it low, then back to the point...". Very rarely do I see them orchestrate any slot presence from the cycle to get a high-danger chance. More often than not, our entire cycle game is funneled to "get the puck to the point and let them shoot". If you have 6 Karlssons, that may be fine, but more often than not, we funnel shooting opportunities to guys who shouldn't be shooting option #1. Again, this is a coaching and roster construction issue.

They traded away Kessel, then Sprong, now Jake...I mean, he's spot on. With the exception of Sid, there's no one on this squad that is an exceptional shooter. This is why I want them to cultivate young Yager soooooo much on that front. I'd be telling that kid to let loose at any and all opportunities on whichever team he's on.

Our game can pretty much boil down to the last 10 posts:

- Faceoff set plays (lol)
- Perimeter shooting, mostly from the open guy (lol, since the open guy is the shit shooter - Petts)
- Monkeys in the corner "on the yellow", as Sully would say. Where zero offense comes from

You don't have shooters, you don't have net front, you have a bunch of old men playing basketball at the Y - sitting on the perimeter.

Big reason I keep pushing for top 6 talent AND mucker uppers. We need goals from both of those types of players. We don't want to be an Isles team that has one-dimensional offense (Barzal) nor a team full of mids. What went wrong in the minds of this front office that they looked at all the unique players we had in 2016 and just went completely away from that?

Oh that's right, Sullivan took over.

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

They traded away Kessel, then Sprong, now Jake...I mean, he's spot on. With the exception of Sid, there's no one on this squad that is an exceptional shooter. This is why I want them to cultivate young Yager soooooo much on that front. I'd be telling that kid to let loose at any and all opportunities on whichever team he's on.

I remember when we first drafted Yager, there was a story that he fell a little bit because he wasn’t shooting as much and trying to round out his game. Since being drafted, he’s apparently gone back to shooting it at will. Which is good because I agree, this franchise needs a prospect/player like that.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

Another fun one, people…it’s been awhile since I heard accountability and Penguins in the same sentence lol

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/joe-starkey/2024/05/02/kyle-dubas-mike-sullivan-devils-sidney-crosby-evgeni-malkin-nhl-offseason/stories/202404290121

Welcome to 2021, Joe.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Welcome to 2021, Joe.

Yeah.

When Joe Starkey is the one finally bringing even a little bit of fire and brimstone you know your local coverage of the team is pretty pathetic and... um... subservient.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

I love the mentions of a "power struggle" between Dubas and Sullivan.

Wasn't there a "power struggle" between Hextall and Sullivan?

Sounds like one person has a problem with change, and he's on his third GM since he was hired.

 

[The Old Master]

I remember when we first drafted Yager, there was a story that he fell a little bit because he wasn’t shooting as much and trying to round out his game. Since being drafted, he’s apparently gone back to shooting it at will. Which is good because I agree, this franchise needs a prospect/player like that.

no, he has rounded out his game and can now add shooting.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I love the mentions of a "power struggle" between Dubas and Sullivan.

Wasn't there a "power struggle" between Hextall and Sullivan?

Sounds like one person has a problem with change, and he's on his third GM since he was hired.

Hey what happened to all the people running around less than a year ago shouting to the mountaintops that poor wittle victimized Mike Sullivan FINALLY had a GM he was on the same page with and THIS time it was gonna be different?

 

[HandshakeLine]

A recovery project in PLD is risky at best. Besides, LA isn't going to cap dump him, instead they wil llikely try to figure out what ails him and build around him to fix it.

Well, the safe moves have been just dandy so far.

 

[SEALBound]

I remember when we first drafted Yager, there was a story that he fell a little bit because he wasn’t shooting as much and trying to round out his game. Since being drafted, he’s apparently gone back to shooting it at will. Which is good because I agree, this franchise needs a prospect/player like that.

I think this is getting more and more common. You hear about creativity starting to go down and it's because really good young players get into these development programs that preach systematic play and well-roundedness which destroys creativity in some kids. They are more focused on being a good robot because that more than likely gives them a better chance to move up and make it.

I would much rather we tell Yager to shoot his heart out, and we can work on rounding out his game later. I don't give a shit about his faceoffs or PK ability at the moment. I want him to fire the f***ing puck into the fuking net.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think this is getting more and more common. You hear about creativity starting to go down and it's because really good young players get into these development programs that preach systematic play and well-roundedness which destroys creativity in some kids. They are more focused on being a good robot because that more than likely gives them a better chance to move up and make it.

I would much rather we tell Yager to shoot his heart out, and we can work on rounding out his game later. I don't give a shit about his faceoffs or PK ability at the moment. I want him to fire the f***ing puck into the fuking net.

Today's chucklehead coaches get so worked up over PK specialists, limiting turnovers, working the walls and the importance of role players grinding out shifts that they have forgotten that the point is to f***ing score.

 

[SEALBound]

Today's chucklehead coaches get so worked up over PK specialists, limiting turnovers, working the walls and the importance of role players grinding out shifts that they have forgotten that the point is to f***ing score.

Indeed. I get being defensively responsible but I'd rather see high peaks and low lows rather than mediocrity throughout.

That also drives home "three scoring lines and one defensive line" model being preferable over "2 offense, 2 defense" lines.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Indeed. I get being defensively responsible but I'd rather see high peaks and low lows rather than mediocrity throughout.

That also drives home "three scoring lines and one defensive line" model being preferable over "2 offense, 2 defense" lines.

I mean you don't want flat-out liabilities out there but realistically how many of those even EXIST in this league? I want players who can either put the puck in the net or do the work required to help another guy put the puck in the net. I want guys with some special skillsets in their game. Anyone can PK. Anyone can "grind bitches down." I'm not saying there is no value in some edge... some sandpaper. Always has been and always will be. But this idea of trying to automaton your way to success is the dumbest shit ever and hardly ever works, anyway. TALENT wins.

Attempting to script the whole game from the bench isn't just stupid and unrealistic... it's the mark of individuals just drowning in their own ego.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Lindholm's someone I would target for sure. You can rely on professionalism from Swedes. He can still give 5 good years probably, with the way players are doing more and more into late ages.
Then with whatever remainder you have compared to PLD's 8.5M AAV, use it to shore up something else. Like backup goaltending for instance, or 3rd line scoring winger depth.
I just don't think PLD's worth 8.5M to begin with, even putting the most recent season aside.

Duchene's someone I would also look at, on a short team deal.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean you don't want flat-out liabilities out there but realistically how many of those even EXIST in this league? I want players who can either put the puck in the net or do the work required to help another guy put the puck in the net. I want guys with some special skillsets in their game. Anyone can PK. Anyone can "grind bitches down." I'm not saying there is no value in some edge... some sandpaper. Always has been and always will be. But this idea of trying to automaton your way to success is the dumbest shit ever and hardly ever works, anyway.

Attempting to script the whole game from the bench isn't just stupid and unrealistic... it's the mark of individuals just drowning in their own ego.

The problem is we are stocked with guys who try really hard and do absolutely nothing else. f*** that shit. Goon it up. Get some talent. Get something else other than completely awful underperforming hard working Phil Bourque clones.

I do not give any sort of shit if a guy “works hard”. f*** his hard work and every single one of his 8-10 goals.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Another fun one, people…it’s been awhile since I heard accountability and Penguins in the same sentence lol

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/joe-starkey/2024/05/02/kyle-dubas-mike-sullivan-devils-sidney-crosby-evgeni-malkin-nhl-offseason/stories/202404290121

Damn, somebody is actually bringing the fire in the media. I never thought I'd see the day.