Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[Andy99]

Outside of game one against the Oilers where he had 3 shots on goal and an actual goal, PLD in the four games since was a -1 overall with ZERO SOG and ZERO points…in a playoff series…that should lead to ZERO interest in him at $8.5M regardless of the waste we have on this roster lol

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Outside of game one against the Oilers where he had 3 shots on goal and an actual goal, PLD in the four games since was a -1 overall with ZERO SOG and ZERO points…in a playoff series…that should lead to ZERO interest in him at $8.5M regardless of the waste we have on this roster lol

Have you ever heard the phrase "buying low"?

He had 17 points in his previous 22 playoff games.

 

[Andy99]

Have you ever heard the phrase "buying low"?

He had 17 points in his previous 22 playoff games.

He’s still only a 3C at best…if the Kings want to retain a bunch on him, sure it’s worth talking about…but I happen to think we can get out Jarry’s contract and Graves, though maybe not next season and maybe he improves…but if we wanted to send out Jarry or Graves for PLD with $3.5M retained, I’d take him…it’s not happening with the length of his contract but if folks here want to discuss unrealistic trades then fine lol

 

[Deport Ogie]

Discussing unrealistic trades is like, 70% of this forum's traffic.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

He’s still only a 3C at best…if the Kings want to retain a bunch on him, sure it’s worth talking about…but I happen to think we can get out Jarry’s contract and Graves, though maybe not next season and maybe he improves…but if we wanted to send out Jarry or Graves for PLD with $3.5M retained, I’d take him…it’s not happening with the length of his contract but if folks here want to discuss unrealistic trades then fine lol

No part of that is right.

He doesn't have the defensive skillset to be a 3C - he's a scoring line player, at LW or C.

Also consider that our current best winger - Rust - has 14 points in his last 21 playoff games playing beside a legend.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Have you ever heard the phrase "buying low"?

He had 17 points in his previous 22 playoff games.

And, at least he was in the playoffs. Sid hasn’t had a playoff point in 3 years.

 

[SEALBound]

I figured throughout the summer there would be odd rabbit hole discussions about odd trade proposals or signings. I did NOT see, of all people, PLD becoming a hot topic that dominates discussion here. Woof. Is it October yet?

 

[HandshakeLine]

I figured throughout the summer there would be odd rabbit hole discussions about odd trade proposals or signings. I did NOT see, of all people, PLD becoming a hot topic that dominates discussion here. Woof. Is it October yet?

Get back to work, Dubas.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I figured throughout the summer there would be odd rabbit hole discussions about odd trade proposals or signings. I did NOT see, of all people, PLD becoming a hot topic that dominates discussion here. Woof. Is it October yet?

Until the NMC activates he's free game go discuss haha.

I imagine it doesnt happen because sunk cost fallacy the LA Kings have paid a pretty penny for him.

 

[Pens x]

Get back to work, Dubas.

Not if his work continues to suck.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Not if his work continues to suck.

Dude is taking the SATs and he’s sweating bullets at the first question.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

A recovery project in PLD is risky at best. Besides, LA isn't going to cap dump him, instead they wil llikely try to figure out what ails him and build around him to fix it.

 

[Gurglesons]

I figured throughout the summer there would be odd rabbit hole discussions about odd trade proposals or signings. I did NOT see, of all people, PLD becoming a hot topic that dominates discussion here. Woof. Is it October yet?

Dude has been posting about acquiring Huberdeau for months, but PLD is a bridge too far…

 

[PensFutures]

"Hey Sid, its Kyle. Wanted to talk about that extension, also let you know we are about to acquire PLD for your LW. Hello....Sid? You there?"

 

[SEALBound]

Until the NMC activates he's free game go discuss haha.

I imagine it doesnt happen because sunk cost fallacy the LA Kings have paid a pretty penny for him.

The best option is to give PLD more time in LA. Maybe not unlike us with Graves. Give him a good long offseason to reboot a bit and come back stronger.

Dude has been posting about acquiring Huberdeau for months, but PLD is a bridge too far…

Huberdeau would be a trade similar to Kessel. Huberdeau didn't magically forget how to play hockey, he's largely struggling due to the trade and team structure.

PLD would be akin to adding...well...PLD knowing full well each team he's been with has the EXACT same issues with him.

Huberdeau would be a worthwhile risk if you really wanted to make a high-risk trade for a high-end talent. A much better risk than the half-assed effort, anchor contract of PLD. If you seriously can't see why they are different, you are further gone than we all thought.

 

[molon labe]

I figured throughout the summer there would be odd rabbit hole discussions about odd trade proposals or signings. I did NOT see, of all people, PLD becoming a hot topic that dominates discussion here. Woof. Is it October yet?

At least he's interesting.

Usually by June it's all delved into pathetic expectations where half the board are posting 40x daily about utter trash bottom 6 players because "that's what they see the Penguins FO really accomplishing this Summer." This guys 6 career goals are better than this other guys ECHL upside. That's all 40 year old Sid and Geno need!

Because if that's the talk we're gonna have it doesn't even matter now does it? PLD is not my first choice, mind you. I think we all just think our players are dogshit and need to trade them for equal dogshit. I think we can do a things a bit more slyly but then again I don't share the braindead vision the front office does.

 

[The Old Master]

A recovery project in PLD is risky at best. Besides, LA isn't going to cap dump him, instead they wil llikely try to figure out what ails him and build around him to fix it.

you can do that!

 

[SEALBound]

At least he's interesting.

Usually by June it's all delved into pathetic expectations where half the board are posting 40x daily about utter trash bottom 6 players because "that's what they see the Penguins FO really accomplishing this Summer." This guys 6 career goals are better than this other guys ECHL upside. That's all 40 year old Sid and Geno need!

Because if that's the talk we're gonna have it doesn't even matter now does it? PLD is not my first choice, mind you. I think we all just think our players are dogshit and need to trade them for equal dogshit. I think we can do a things a bit more slyly but then again I don't share the braindead vision the front office does.

I'd rather be telling the board for the umpteenth time why I think Mike Sullivan should be fired.

Problem with PLD is...effort. The biggest knock on the guy from every fan base that he's played with, is effort. Dude plays like he doesn't give a shit. I will hand it to him, I do think the ability is there to be that 60-70pt player that was drafted 3ov but he doesn't seem to have the attitude needed to get there. Paying $8.5mil for a guy you have to HOPE shows up and tries every single game, is not the direction we should be going in. Alternatively, I think we saw the benefits of what a guy like Bunting brings (which is the exact opposite of PLD) - that energetic, get dirty, play hard mentality. It's why guys like Hagelin and Hornqvist helped us so much when they were brought in.

If we want to talk expensive contracts, that's fine. But for the love of god, let's get someone the team needs that will fit if we're going to pay that much.

 

[molon labe]

I'd rather be telling the board for the umpteenth time why I think Mike Sullivan should be fired.

Problem with PLD is...effort. The biggest knock on the guy from every fan base that he's played with, is effort. Dude plays like he doesn't give a shit. I will hand it to him, I do think the ability is there to be that 60-70pt player that was drafted 3ov but he doesn't seem to have the attitude needed to get there. Paying $8.5mil for a guy you have to HOPE shows up and tries every single game, is not the direction we should be going in. Alternatively, I think we saw the benefits of what a guy like Bunting brings (which is the exact opposite of PLD) - that energetic, get dirty, play hard mentality. It's why guys like Hagelin and Hornqvist helped us so much when they were brought in.

If we want to talk expensive contracts, that's fine. But for the love of god, let's get someone the team needs that will fit if we're going to pay that much.

I'm there.

I'm also there to the point where I don't really care who we bring in at this point so long as there's change. Running it back for a 7th year with a carbon copy roster and carbon copy coach is stupidity.

My first picks? Yeah, entire new coaching staff - every.single.one. Especially whomever recommended Jarry - get that person the F outta town. From there, get absolutely out from under the whole nice guy roster bull crap. Part of me thinks this is some Sid special - Sullivan/Johnson/DOC in the top 6 etc etc. and that part of me wants someone with balls to tell Sid that he needs to just focus on himself and let the grown ups build the team. But the other part thinks it's this deep rooted mind virus as part of this 'right way' crap Sullivan is obsessed with. The right way isn't losing, that's for sure. And this roster is fully rotten of losers, sorry. I don't hate the players, I hate them on this team. Get bangers, get grit, get personality...but above all else get something DIFFERENT. Clearly whatever the hell this shit is doesn't work so try literally anything else..

With regard to PLD - I just flat out don't believe 1% that Geno has another season as a 2C in him. I just don't. I want Kadri or someone similar and younger. But I'd take almost anyone pushing the 2C spot at this point. Maybe that's two second lines where the next guy pushes Eller to 4C (where he belongs)...idk. But this stufff..again....it sucks. (Clearly)

 

[chethejet]

Trading for a 3rd line center with that cap hit is incredibly stupid. Now Pens with Bunting and a healthy Rakell was playing well down the road with Geno. Yes Geno is declining but he is still a center that is not a plug here. Plus Dubas is going to remake the bottom 6 with Eller, Acciari, Poulin, maybe DOC, Ponomarev for starters.

 

[SEALBound]

I'm there.

I'm also there to the point where I don't really care who we bring in at this point so long as there's change. Running it back for a 7th year with a carbon copy roster and carbon copy coach is stupidity.

My first picks? Yeah, entire new coaching staff - every.single.one. Especially whomever recommended Jarry - get that person the F outta town. From there, get absolutely out from under the whole nice guy roster bull crap. Part of me thinks this is some Sid special - Sullivan/Johnson/DOC in the top 6 etc etc. and that part of me wants someone with balls to tell Sid that he needs to just focus on himself and let the grown ups build the team. But the other part thinks it's this deep rooted mind virus as part of this 'right way' crap Sullivan is obsessed with. The right way isn't losing, that's for sure. And this roster is fully rotten of losers, sorry. I don't hate the players, I hate them on this team. Get bangers, get grit, get personality...but above all else get something DIFFERENT. Clearly whatever the hell this shit is doesn't work so try literally anything else..

With regard to PLD - I just flat out don't believe 1% that Geno has another season as a 2C in him. I just don't. I want Kadri or someone similar and younger. But I'd take almost anyone pushing the 2C spot at this point. Maybe that's two second lines where the next guy pushes Eller to 4C (where he belongs)...idk. But this stufff..again....it sucks. (Clearly)

The change needs to start with the coaching staff. If it's Sully and Co back in action next year, I don't think there are any roster changes that will matter short of getting McDavid or Matthews.

I agree on the current roster - we have a lot of passengers. I think our Top 6 is okay. If we came back with DOC-Sid-Rust, Bunt-Geno-Raks, I think I would be okay with that. I think DOC is primed to break out and the rest have proven to be capable. That said, I would not balk one iota at bringing in another top 6 player to bolster the lineup. I think you're spot on with the "I don't hate the players, I hate them on this team". Guys like Smith, Nieto, Acciari, Bemstrom, Harkins, Graves, and to a very slight extent Eller should be sent out. I want Eller to be the 4C while the 4th line is a heavy defensive line. I don't know if he provides enough of what the third line needs to be. Good part, he's got this year and then is a UFA. If he struggles, I have no doubt we could trade him out given the limited market on centers. The rest of those guys need to go so that we can open up slots for others - whether they be prospects of ours or signings. Guys like Pono, Poulin, Puljujarvi, Yager, Koivunen, and Gruden should be given full opportunity to make the roster over guys like Acciari, Nieto, waiver wire fodder, etc. I think that more than anything will boost the team.

I don't know about Geno. I think if he was given Bunting and Rakell all season, it would be fine. I would also support bringing in a younger 2C and shifting Malkin to wing to ease the workload on him but that also has to come with a coach that is willing to implement a system that isn't so dependent on wing speed. I jut don't think the correct use of money on that front is f***ing PLD. I would rather roll the dice with guys like Wennberg, Roslovic, oe Stephenson if going the UFA route. Or see if you can make a trade for a guy like Barrett Hayton or Jack Drury. Honestly, if Carolina makes the SCF, offering them their first back for Drury wouldn't be the worst thing, especially if they need cap space to resign Guentzel. Dare I say I might consider KK from Carolina over PLD. But a line up of:

DOC-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Drury-Malkin
Rakell-Wennberg-Yager/Pono/Koivunen/Puusty/etc
Poulin-Eller-Puljujarvi

would be nice assuming they elect to keep that top line together. If not:

DeBrusk-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Drury-Malkin
DOC-Wennberg-Rakell
Poulin-Eller-Puljujarvi

would be equally as nice.

 

[Malkinstheman]

My logic with PLD basically boils down to this:

Without PLD: Team sucks

PLD sucks: Team sucks

PLD plays well: You got a big, physical 2C for free

The team needs a hail mary at this point. I'd be all for acquiring guys like Gaudreau, Huberdeau, PLD etc

 

[Andy99]

Lol…you go, Jesse…



#1 reason is the coach as that’s the only constant…well that and aging star players who can still put up goals…

 

[Deport Ogie]

I certainly don't have the answers or I'd be living in a much nicer house. But it still feels like the Pens remain a perimeter team who lack willingness to go to the dirty areas. They also handicap half their team through the type of player and type of deployment the bottom six get. It's an outdated philosophy.

One thing I do know however, is that there has been zero attempt at making any change. Whatever they are doing isn't working and yet we continue to pound that square peg and drop platitudes like "oh they worked hard but didn't get the bounces" or "the puck didn't go our way tonight."

 

[SEALBound]

Atta boy @Jesse!

I think you're right about there being deeper issues with the finishing. Some off the top of my head considerations include:
1. General offensive zone tendencies like Sid pulling up at the top of the circle and giving the pass to Pettersson who puts a wet noodle shot into the chest of the goalie with no traffic in front. Combine that with them being largely a perimeter team who works well down low, it's not hard see that as a significant issue.
2. Overpassing on countless occasions. They want the "pretty" or "easy" goal and often times are willing to sacrifice a quality-mid to high danger shot attempt in favor of the low-percentage play for the "easy or pretty" goal.
3. Players simply not hitting the net or "not scoring". Several times we seen players take the shot that SHOULD be a surething only for the goalie to make a miraculous save. You put the puck 6in higher, it goes in. While there's nothing that quantifies this, it's just something players have to do. You wanna be a goal scorer, you better score goals. Goal scorers find the way to score the goals.
4. Lack of net front presence. Once Bunting got here, we saw an uptick in goals due to traffic in front. We aren't good at taking the goalie's eyes away from him. Not hard to watch a random Pens game and at the end look and say "...they had 45 shots? f***ing what?" because the majority are not high-danger changes where goalies have to make difficult saves. I think teams are getting good at just letting the Penguins come in and do their thing knowing full well they will revert to a style of play that is hardly threatening.

The deeper issue there is coaching and to a slightly lesser extent, the roster make up. If you keep giving Sid and Geno the players that make them comfy in playing the style they've played for the last 15 years, don't be surprised when we see a lot of "comfy" plays. Double that with building a bottom 6 that has no offensive IQ, again it's not hard to arrive to these conclusions.

I agree with Jesse that, quite actually, the adv stats DID meet the eye test. You just can't have a Ryan Wilson level of understanding about it for it to make sense.