Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[Dipsy Doodle]

So, what then? Right wall Nichushkin, with Crosby on the left? When have they ever done this for more than a few games?
Net-front? Our net-fronts in recent years barely get puck touches, and Bunting is already doing a really good job there at a cheap cap hit.
Left wall as a left shot? Suboptimal. Makes it hard with one-timers and getting good angles to shoot.

You're also ignoring the rate at which his stats would decline here. He would no longer be among the tops in the league here, so it doesn't matter.
I'm not denying that he's an excellent PP player, but it needs to fit with everything else that's going on.

Why commit 6 years now, of all times, to an expensive winger? To accomplish what? It's illogical.
As much as I like the player's game, timing and contracts matter.

It would be net front, where he's much better than Bunting. In fact, he's arguably the best in the league there. The worst PP in the league isn't in a position to be turning its nose up at Nuke because it has Bunting, who had 7 PP goals last year.

Why commit to him for 6 years? He's 6'4, a great forechecker, great defensively, a PP cheat code, an absolute playoff beast, and on the right side of 30. You aren't getting anything close to that with any other potential acquisition for 6 mil per. He has everything we need in a winger.

PS: I love that Bunting's 4.5 mil per contract is considered "cheap", but Nichushkin's 6.125 mil per contract is "expensive". Do you understand the giant gap between these players in terms of performance, and the relatively tiny gap in terms of cap hit?

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

And PK. He was stingier there than all Forwards not named Smith. Small sample size, but I gotta give him credit there.
On a related note, this team should stop using Rust on the PK. No Forward got scored on more frequently there, relative to his minutes. And in 2022-23 he was 2nd worst, behind Carter.
I don't get what Sullivan sees in him there, but he's not Bergeron. Smith should eat his minutes there. He's like a 90 percentile PK'er.

Smith can eat something alright, it ain't minutes though.

 

[Darren McCord]

It would be net front, where he's much better than Bunting. In fact, he's arguably the best in the league there. The worst PP in the league isn't in a position to be turning its nose up at Nuke because it has Bunting, who had 7 PP goals last year.

Why commit to him for 6 years? He's 6'4, a great forechecker, great defensively, a PP cheat code, an absolute playoff beast, and on the right side of 30. You aren't getting anything close to that with any other potential acquisition for 6 mil per. He has everything we need in a winger.

PS: I love that Bunting's 4.5 mil per contract is considered "cheap", but Nichushkin's 6.125 mil per contract is "expensive". Do you understand the giant gap between these players in terms of performance, and the relatively tiny gap in terms of cap hit?

Again the East will be an even bigger dog fight next year if Michkov is coming. Missing out on 6-8 pts in October because you are leave 6 mill off the books could mean missing the playoffs.

It is not worth the cap penalty for a guy who will come back at game like 20. He isn't even going to be able to practice with the team until his suspension is up. Who knows then he would actually start playing.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Again the East will be an even bigger dog fight next year if Michkov is coming. Missing out on 6-8 pts in October because you are leave 6 mill off the books could mean missing the playoffs.

It is not worth the cap penalty for a guy who will come back at game like 20. He isn't even going to be able to practice with the team until his suspension is up. Who knows then he would actually start playing.

Do you have a better use for 6 mil per?

Who else would even come close to Nichushkin's impact at that price?

Let's hear it.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Teravainen wouldn't even be on the Penguins top PP unit, so I don't see what kind of relevance this has.

Teravainen has consistently not been a good 5v5 producer with Carolina in the past 3 years:

2023-2024: 25 5v5 points in 76 games
2022-2023: 20 5v5 points in 68 games
2021-2022: 23 5v5 points in 77 games

He's not putting up 31 PP points on the Penguins like he has been doing with the Canes, because he wouldn't get that kind of usage. He's a powerplay specialist that wouldn't be used on the powerplay, going with Robertson or O'Connor on Crosby's line would make far more sense.

He's in the same mold as Granlund and Kessel, in that he's an awful 5v5 player that just relies on huge minutes on the powerplay to get points. Frankly, the Granlund comparison seems especially accurate.

My general commentary (don't want to delve into specific players) is that this team needs PP specialists and the coach needs to deploy such specialists appropriately. A player like Sprong is exactly what this team needs: a guy who does nothing else but bolster the PP and is limited to 7 mins ES time per game. They do that, and they're easily in the playoffs

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

And PK. He was stingier there than all Forwards not named Smith. Small sample size, but I gotta give him credit there.
On a related note, this team should stop using Rust on the PK. No Forward got scored on more frequently there, relative to his minutes. And in 2022-23 he was 2nd worst, behind Carter.
I don't get what Sullivan sees in him there, but he's not Bergeron. Smith should eat his minutes there. He's like a 90 percentile PK'er.

Yea I'm glad that my eyes matched the stats about R Smith's PKing. Dude has a great hockey IQ. He's like Hags with less speed and better hands.

What is DOC's PK performance? My eyes said he's not really great at it.

Couple of questions:

1) Do you think Jarry is on the trade block? I know he's got some trade protection
2) What teams would see Jarry as an upgrade or change of scenery? Edm, Car, Toronto?

 

[Pens1566]

I'd go after Necas within reason.

 

[SEALBound]

So, this article says he'll be healthy allegedly by November.

"Nieto suffered setbacks during his recovery phase and eventually underwent a second surgery to start the offseason. His second surgery was on his left knee, however, and will keep him for six to seven months.

If everything clears and Nieto can hit the ice again, his earliest return would be early November, nearly a year since his last game action."

I'm not the one who said it and I'm not the one who wrote the article. I'm just pointing out where he heard it. I said the same thing as you.

I don't think this bodes well for Nieto. He has always been a 4th line player with his thing being speed and grit...but now he's 31 coming off major surgery. He'll miss camp when a bunch of young kids will be competing for those coveted last spots. When he's "healthy" and not having played for a year...how do you justify putting him in the lineup over a younger guy like Poulin? Either they have to really stink or there have to be injuries.

I honestly think the best route for him at the moment is to get waived and either get claimed or be sent to WBS where he can get his feet back under him. Best case scenario, he finds his play again in WBS and then gets the call at some point later in the year. That being in stark contrast to my hope that he never plays another game for us because I'd rather use that roster spot as a rotating door of young guys.

Not ideal for a guy whose only selling point was skating fast.

Nooooooooooooooope. His NHL future is certainly in jeopardy.

Yea I'm glad that my eyes matched the stats about R Smith's PKing. Dude has a great hockey IQ. He's like Hags with less speed and better hands.

What is DOC's PK performance? My eyes said he's not really great at it.

Couple of questions:

1) Do you think Jarry is on the trade block? I know he's got some trade protection
2) What teams would see Jarry as an upgrade or change of scenery? Edm, Car, Toronto?

I can see why Dubas wanted Smith. On paper, he really does seem like a great fit. Early in the year, he was dynamite with Geno and Raks. But then it was a slow decent into mediocrity. I still think he's a good player, maybe just not a good player here. Might be the next Dadonov for someone. Dads looks lethal with the Stars after being a dud in Montreal, Vegas, and Ottawa.

I think DOC is a capable PK'er. Uses his speed and stick well. I would be fine designating him as the PK guy in lieu of signing a PK specialist.

1. Yes.
2. Those teams plus LA with a few darkhorses.

 

[Empoleon8771]

My general commentary (don't want to delve into specific players) is that this team needs PP specialists and the coach needs to deploy such specialists appropriately. A player like Sprong is exactly what this team needs: a guy who does nothing else but bolster the PP and is limited to 7 mins ES time per game. They do that, and they're easily in the playoffs

I'd be fine with targeting Sprong or a Sprong type of player for exactly that role. But Teravainen isn't that, Teravainen is going to cost $6 million to come play on Crosby's wing and drag that line down. It's basically just bringing in another Granlund.

I'd argue that they may already have that PP specialist type of guy in Puustinen, so you'd probably have to be replacing him if they're bringing in that Sprong type of guy. But even then, I'm still fine with doing that. But that's way different than bringing in Granlund 2.0 on an expensive long-term deal.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'd be fine with targeting Sprong or a Sprong type of player for exactly that role. But Teravainen isn't that, Teravainen is going to cost $6 million to come play on Crosby's wing and drag that line down. It's basically just bringing in another Granlund.

I'd argue that they may already have that PP specialist type of guy in Puustinen, so you'd probably have to be replacing him if they're bringing in that Sprong type of guy. But even then, I'm still fine with doing that. But that's way different than bringing in Granlund 2.0 on an expensive long-term deal.

If Teravainen gets 6 million, I'll eat a sock.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If Teravainen gets 6 million, I'll eat a sock.

With the cap rising a lot and teams being stupid? I'd be surprised if he didn't get that or close to it.

 

[Gurglesons]

With the cap rising a lot and teams being stupid? I'd be surprised if he didn't get that or close to it.

I see him as the type of player that gets completely washed out in terms of his value. Similar to what you saw with Bunting and others last year.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Teuvo will get 6.0 and that's only a .600 bump from his current deal.

I only say Teuvo incase they don't want to do the 8.5/9.5 for Jake.

 

[Gurglesons]

Teuvo will get 6.0 and that's only a .600 bump from his current deal.

I only say Teuvo incase they don't want to do the 8.5/9.5 for Jake.

We just didn't see this type of pay for wingers that play the game like Tuevo last UFA.

I understand the cap went up, but I don't see the market for him getting 6 mil unless it's on a one year deal similar to Bertuzzi last season.

 

[SEALBound]

TT will absolutely get $6mil or more. Wouldn't shock me one iota to see $6mil x 4 years.

Same with Bertuzzi.

 

[Ugene Magic]

We just didn't see this type of pay for wingers that play the game like Tuevo last UFA.

I understand the cap went up, but I don't see the market for him getting 6 mil unless it's on a one year deal similar to Bertuzzi last season.

Oh, he's not getting term of 8 or 7 years with his raise, but I can see another 5 year deal or less. He's more than earned a slight bump in cap if he's giving up term.

 

[Gurglesons]

TT will absolutely get $6mil or more. Wouldn't shock me one iota to see $6mil x 4 years.

Same with Bertuzzi.

I don't think the league is valuing wingers that put up 40-60 pts the same way they have in past years.

We saw it at the deadline where multiple top end wingers had low end returns in Guentzel, Zucker, Toffoli, Duclair, Tarasenko, etc

We saw it last UFA too with Bertuzzi coming off a great playoffs getting a one year prove it deal. Zucker getting a one year deal after having a huge year. Etc.

 

[Empoleon8771]

TT will absolutely get $6mil or more. Wouldn't shock me one iota to see $6mil x 4 years.

Same with Bertuzzi.

Bertuzzi isn't getting that kind of money, he had 43 points last year.

Either way, I just really hope this team steers entirely clear of those UFAs if they're actually making that much. I'd rather have O'Connor on L1 than pay Teravainen $6 million, it's not even close.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I don't think the league is valuing wingers that put up 40-60 pts the same way they have in past years.

We saw it at the deadline where multiple top end wingers had low end returns in Guentzel, Zucker, Toffoli, Duclair, Tarasenko, etc

We saw it last UFA too with Bertuzzi coming off a great playoffs getting a one year prove it deal. Zucker getting a one year deal after having a huge year. Etc.

You are talking while the cap was stagnate. Players were also waiting to do bigger deals once the cap went back to normal circumstances.

 

[Gurglesons]

Bertuzzi isn't getting that kind of money, he had 43 points last year.

Either way, I just really hope this team steers entirely clear of those UFAs if they're actually making that much. I'd rather have O'Connor on L1 than pay Teravainen $6 million, it's not even close.

I feel like you could actually potentially get Teravainen IF you wait out the market on a pretty good deal.

Question is will Dubas do that. Last year was a perfect example of us filling holes to fill them immediately.

You are talking while the cap was stagnate. Players were also waiting to do bigger deals once the cap went back to normal circumstances.

No, I'm talking about the view point of the league.

We saw it last year in the 1st round with no teams moving their picks. We saw it this deadline with teams being reluctant to give up assets for older players.

The league has shifted. Teams are more focused on internal cap structure, young players, and locking up "their" players versus UFAs.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Teravainen sounds like a terrible idea.

What does he bring that we would need? Like we really need more small pass first players.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I feel like you could actually potentially get Teravainen IF you wait out the market on a pretty good deal.

Question is will Dubas do that. Last year was a perfect example of us filling holes to fill them immediately.

I have a hard time seeing anything above like $4 million for Teravainen as a "pretty good deal".

Like 2 years at $3.5 million? Sure, I think he'd be worth it at that point probably. But he also doesn't fit what I want out of a LW for Crosby whatsoever and they're probably better off looking for a righty PP specialist if they're going after a PP specialist.

 

[Gurglesons]

I have a hard time seeing anything above like $4 million for Teravainen as a "pretty good deal".

Like 2 years at $3.5 million? Sure, I think he'd be worth it at that point probably. But he also doesn't fit what I want out of a LW for Crosby whatsoever and they're probably better off looking for a righty PP specialist if they're going after a PP specialist.

Yeah that's what I'm thinking if he overplays his hand you probably can get him for 4 million on a one year deal.

 

[Gurglesons]

Teravainen sounds like a terrible idea.

What does he bring that we would need? Like we really need more small pass first players.

Wouldn't necessarily be my first choice. Although personally I think UFA this year is a wasteland if you want top six talent.

It's basically Guentzel and Bennett who I assume re-sign with Carolina and Florida and then you've got the elders like Stamkos, Marsh, Tarasenko and nothing else.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

No, I'm talking about the view point of the league.

We saw it last year in the 1st round with no teams moving their picks. We saw it this deadline with teams being reluctant to give up assets for older players.

The league has shifted. Teams are more focused on internal cap structure, young players, and locking up "their" players versus UFAs.

You're right- the league HAD finally shifted bc of the flat/falling cap. GM's were being smarter and more judicious with their signings, hardly any trades, etc.

But that landscape won't exist this offseason. Cap is going up and we'll see idiot GMs/Owners spending like a drunken sailor at port AGAIN. Hell I remember the Minnesota owner bellyaching about the state of the league merely months after signing Parise and Suter to massive deals. There's zero self awareness or reflection, as if the past 10 years hasn't existed. Teams will be idiots again and in about 2 or 3 years, will be looking to offload some of those same contracts.