Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[Pancakes]

Some of you guys are just obsessed with change for changes sake. I totally get that after two years in a row of garbage but I'm here to tell you that it's OK to keep some of our good players. We don't need to trade every last one in the name of change.

Fire Sully and it'll all come together anyways

 

[MrBrightside]

Some of you guys are just obsessed with change for changes sake. I totally get that after two years in a row of garbage but I'm here to tell you that it's OK to keep some of our good players. We don't need to trade every last one in the name of change.

Fire Sully and it'll all come together anyways

And assuming that anyone who is a Sullivan favorite ergo must suck.

 

[Deport Ogie]

Well that's the crux. Right now they have a coach that insists on playing a system that does not fit the players. Pretty cut and dry.

So you either have to get rid of the coach and bring in someone who can design a system for the players you have. Or if you are stapled to the coach for whatever dumb reason, you better find some players who fit the system he stubbornly adheres to.

The Penguins have done an amazingly obtuse job at failing to recognize this and attempt to half-ass both sides of it. In this case however, the math does not equate. Half assing two things does not, in fact, come out to one entire ass.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Not sure that Carolina can pull off keeping him given their other contract situations but he seems 100x more likely to be there than here next year. Most likely scenario is somewhere else like Detroit or Buffalo or Utah, but the ship here really seems to have sailed. And really, that's fine.

Yeah, I'm not whinging about Jake being gone. Just something watch out for going forward.

Well that's the crux. Right now they have a coach that insists on playing a system that does not fit the players. Pretty cut and dry.

So you either have to get rid of the coach and bring in someone who can design a system for the players you have. Or if you are stapled to the coach for whatever dumb reason, you better find some players who fit the system he stubbornly adheres to.

The Penguins have done an amazingly obtuse job at failing to recognize this and attempt to half-ass both sides of it. In this case however, the math does not equate. Half assing two things does not, in fact, come out to one entire ass.

Yeah, I think the main problem which is so elemental and fundamental with this team is they don't have have any idea what they have on the roster, what we can play, and what the core can handle. On some level it doesn't even matter if it's Sullivan's system or not; the team is just so in denial about what it is that no move is gonna make a whole lot of sense until they sort that out.

 

[Gurglesons]

What you're saying is "if obviously-tanking San Jose could get bent over the table dry for Hertl, apparently-attempting-to-still-compete Pittsburgh could have gotten bent over the table dry for Rust and Smith." In that case yes, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

I'm not making excuses for Dubas. I'm evaluating reality. They could have traded both of them but likely not for a good return. So what! you exclaim...they should be rebuilding! Maybe, but you explain that to 87 then. Again, reality. Not a video game.

No, what I'm saying is our GM has come out and referenced NY and LA as an example of how he wants to reload this team, but his actions tell a completely different story.

I don't even want to move Bryan Rust. But, don't sit there and say you're going full retool and then you are hanging onto 32 year old 5 million dollar RWs.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I mean, by and large I think Shero was a f***ing fraud, but his whole thing about "non-core guys don't get long term deals" was gold imo.

Rust is fine, nobody's saying he sucks, but he should by no means be considered a core, or even untouchable player. He's a 30+ year old dude that's very likely a product of his opportunities and linemates. He's also plagued by injury pretty often. This team has long had issues with being able to reasonably evaluate players with an emotional detachment.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

Yeah but it was "per league sources."

That's some ironclad shit, buddy.

He didn't specify which league.

It's probably people he overhears at the local bowling league.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The hate Rust gets on this site is absolutely insane to me. The dude was a PPG player again this year yet more people are mad that he won't be traded than happy he's still on the team.

Rust has always been disrespected on this site and I genuinely do not understand why.

 

[BusinessGoose]

The Penguins have done an amazingly obtuse job at failing to recognize this and attempt to half-ass both sides of it. In this case however, the math does not equate. Half assing two things does not, in fact, come out to one entire ass.

The hate Rust gets on this site is absolutely insane to me. The dude was a PPG player again this year yet more people are mad that he won't be traded than happy he's still on the team.

Rust has always been disrespected on this site and I genuinely do not understand why.

I don't know if i hate him anymore

I just think he is one of the few non prospects we could get value for.. But NMC

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean, by and large I think Shero was a f***ing fraud, but his whole thing about "non-core guys don't get long term deals" was gold imo.

Rust is fine, nobody's saying he sucks, but he should by no means be considered a core, or even untouchable player. He's a 30+ year old dude that's very likely a product of his opportunities and linemates. He's also plagued by injury pretty often. This team has long had issues with being able to reasonably evaluate players with an emotional detachment.

This is how I feel. I'm fine keeping him, but this weird devotion to him from the front office is bizarre.

If we could've gotten a 1st and a prospect like Edstrom, and a cap offset for him, why would you not do that?

 

[Andy99]

Yeah, I don’t think people hate Rust.. they just hate that he’s treated like a core player and was gifted a multi year full NMC lol

 

[Deport Ogie]

If people truly hate Rust or think he's useless or even overpaid, yeah I would disagree fully with that. But he's not irreplaceable. He's not 'core' to lean into this organization's bizarre obsession with that term.

I like Rust and I like how he plays. But he's not immoveable.

 

[Gurglesons]

If people truly hate Rust or think he's useless or even overpaid, yeah I would disagree fully with that. But he's not irreplaceable. He's not 'core' to lean into this organization's bizarre obsession with that term.

I like Rust and I like how he plays. But he's not immoveable.

Then move him and get younger. He's a big reason of why we will stay older and will likely return more value than Smith in a trade.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The last 3 posts have just proven my point about how disrespected Rust is on this site

You can call it "bizarre" about how he's treated as a core player all you want. But in the last 5 years, the dude has averaged around 70 points per 82 games. That's a core player on a huge majority of teams in the NHL. He's in the same boat as Zach Hyman on the Oilers, and I think a huge majority of Oilers fans consider Hyman a part of their core at this point.

The whole "I don't like how much the team likes him" is just "Sullivan loves him so I don't like him". The dude can play in all situations, fits both with Crosby and Malkin, was a homegrown talent that had huge impacts on their past cup wins, produces a ton....what's the problem here? Why is that kind of player being considered a part of the "core" a problem? James Neal was considered a part of the core back in the day and I'd easily take 2019-2024 Rust over 2011-2014 Neal.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

*HF Penguins discusses Rust relatively even-handedly*

THE DISRESPECT!

 

[Empoleon8771]

*HF Penguins discusses Rust relatively even-handedly*

THE DISRESPECT!

"Even-handedly"

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Literally nobody is saying he's bad.

You guys sound as dumb as the ones you are disparaging, here.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Literally nobody is saying he's bad.

You guys sound as dumb as the ones you are disparaging, here.

Lol okay whatever you say.

This place has always had an axe to grind with Rust for seemingly no reason. If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend that's not a thing, I guess you can do that.

This place never gives Rust the credit he deserves for his play and will always find some sort of way to talk him down or say he should be moved. And I genuinely believe it's mostly because Sullivan loves him and this place hates Sullivan.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Lol okay whatever you say.

This place has always had an axe to grind with Rust for seemingly no reason. If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend that's not a thing, I guess you can do that.

Can you show me where the bad men said Rust sucks?

No?

OK then.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Can you show me where the bad men said Rust sucks?

No?

OK then.

Saying Rust sucks is moronic. Constantly downplaying him to talk down his abilities is not an "even-handedly" discussion.

Coming up with a strawman like "we're not saying he's terrible" doesn't mean the discussion doesn't have an obvious bias. Every single time Rust is playing well, it's always a "yeah, but...." from this website trying to talk it down. It's painfully obvious.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The "hate" Rust gets around here pales in comparison to the genuine, verifiable reverence Rust gets from the organization. I don't think Rust is some untouchable wunderkind, sorry if that's a radically controversial take. Twist it however you'd like. Again, he's had his best years now as a 30+ guy, he's nearly constantly injured, and if you give another solid 2nd liner his opportunities and linemates, I think you'd get roughly the same sort of production.

Nobody thinks he sucks. Nobody is trying to trade him for a bag of pucks. You're battling phantoms that don't exist. The issue is that he's treated with reverence when he's, realistically, probably a pretty replaceable player, not some linchpin holding it all together.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The "hate" Rust gets around here pales in comparison to the genuine, verifiable reverence Rust gets from the organization. I don't think Rust is some untouchable wunderkind, sorry if that's a radically controversial take. Twist it however you'd like. Again, he's had his best years now as a 30+ guy, he's nearly constantly injured, and if you give another solid 2nd liner his opportunities and linemates, I think you'd get roughly the same sort of production.

Nobody thinks he sucks. Nobody is trying to trade him for a bag of pucks. You're battling phantoms that don't exist. The issue is that he's treated with reverence when he's, realistically, probably a pretty replaceable player, not some linchpin holding it all together.

Saying "we're not saying he sucks, so we're not being biased against him" over and over again isn't the argument you think it is.

Rust gets constantly disrespected on this site by the exact stuff you're posting here. That is the kind of disrespect Rust has always gotten on this site, even when he's playing great. This website will always try to find a way to talk him down when he's playing well and will absolutely pile on him when he's not playing well.

When he's putting up PPG seasons, he's "replaceable" by another 2nd liner and people here hate how he's not being traded. When he's in a down year, people are screaming to have him dumped for nothing and saying how much he sucks.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Saying "we're not saying he sucks, so we're not being biased against him" over and over again isn't the argument you think it is.

Rust gets constantly disrespected on this site by the exact stuff you're posting here.

Woe is Bryan Rust. Such a shame that people laugh at how dumb the organization's adoration of a relatively replaceable player is.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Rust sucks. What now @Empoleon8771 ?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Woe is Bryan Rust. Such a shame that people laugh at how dumb the organization's adoration of a relatively replaceable player is.

You're literally just proving my point.