Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[Tom Hanks]

No I'm right.

 

[Pancakes]

Feel free to say whether it's unreasonable or not, but I think the idea is for this team to build up a solid foundation of young players now and then use the abundance of cap space they have post-Crosby and Malkin to throw huge money at top players in free agency.

If I remember right, using UFA to maintain the team as sustainably good was a strategy JR had as well for the future of the Penguins when he was still the GM here.

I think the best they can hope for with this model they have is something like the Kings where they have a couple of shitty years but stay relevant thanks to the volume of picks/prospects/cap space they accumulate over the next couple of years here.

I think what's more likely is that like @Gurglesons and I have said they probably end up bottoming out anyways in a few years because try as they might mid round firsts and a few seconds aren't gonna stave off the inevitable.

View attachment 888057

HOG chasing me down to beat the shit out of me for one of my many bad takes

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yes I think it's becoming clear that we don't have meddling owners on our hands necessarily however they have a clear idea of what they want and will hire accordingly. Kyle is here because he'll play ball and he likely hopes at some point that the pesky core will just go away and he can play in a fresh sandbox. But in the meantime he answers to Mike Sullivan and the team needs to "be competitive, sell tickets and create buzz but ALSO somehow magically accrue assets and young players for the future." Which is an asinine ask for anything less than an entire staff full of megabrained wizards all armed with crystal balls. But here we are.

And honestly, I think Lemieux had the same mandate. It's an unreasonable ask, it's like asking an engineer to design the best car while it also comes in cheaper than any other car. The ideas work in contrast of each other, but they're paying Dubas a ton of money to figure out how to make it work.

The idea will work if your expectations are "they'll be a fringe playoff team for the rest of Crosby's time and then have a good prospect base once Crosby retires". Which if that sells tickets, I'm pretty sure FSG will be content with.

I think the best they can hope for with this model they have is something like the Kings where they have a couple of shitty years but stay relevant thanks to the volume of picks/prospects/cap space they accumulate over the next couple of years here.

I think what's more likely is that like @Gurglesons and I have said they probably end up bottoming out anyways in a few years because try as they might mid round firsts and a few seconds aren't gonna stave off the inevitable.

I think the thought of the owners is that they're paying Dubas $7 million a year or whatever to build this team so that doesn't happen.

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

I get why FSG (or Mario pre sale) don’t want the team to bottom out and see bad attendance but if/when this team bottoms out, I don’t think attendance will be early-mid 2000s bad. Won’t be good, weekday games might be rough, but I don’t think it’ll be as barren. They’ve built up an entire generation of fans that I think will be willing to stick around through a tough rebuild since the team has built up enough grace over the past nearly two decades.

 

[Pancakes]

There is something funny to me about a franchise that has historically had all of its success because of the draft being absolutely mortified at the prospect of a rebuild.

Mfers we drafted Mario, Sid, Geno, Maf, Jagr through tanking! Everything good this franchise has ever had started on draft day.

And yet they have zero interest in getting a lottery pick again despite having insane luck with them. Boggles the mind.

 

[Tom Hanks]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1806371238459109668

 

[molon labe]

Feel free to say whether it's unreasonable or not, but I think the idea is for this team to build up a solid foundation of young players now and then use the abundance of cap space they have post-Crosby and Malkin to throw huge money at top players in free agency. It's absolutely more of a baseball strategy than a hockey strategy, but that makes sense when you consider who FSG is.

If I remember right, using UFA to maintain the team as sustainably good was a strategy JR had as well for the future of the Penguins when he was still the GM here. If JR were still the GM, I honestly think he would have let at least one of Letang or Malkin walk in free agency and would have tried to throw a huge deal at someone like Pietrangelo in UFA.

I think that sentiment is a hell of a lot better of a plan than cap-strapping yourself to buyout contracts for 2nd round picks or taking on losers with term and souring the locker room.

Be a Vancouver. Get 4 to 5 guys from mid to late 1st/2nd round, hope to get your Pettersson on the inevitable year you suck with your youth, then attact the UFAs who look at the market and see a Pittsburgh prime to break out with a core of youth.

Cap flexibility has been a hill I've died on over the years. Nobody ever grasps it, ever. Then they whine about 'not being in the running' for X or Y when they become available because it's gotta be money in / money out - as if good players aren't available every single year and offseason.

Neither of these are routes I think we're currently on, however. Jarry/Graves prove otherwise. Karlsson could be looked at as a business/excitement decision and Eller would certainly lend itself to a short term ride this core out deal. But overall I think this team is halfway made up of Sullivan prototypes and the other half completely confused pieces that don't really make sense.

 

[Turin]

There is something funny to me about a franchise that has historically had all of its success because of the draft being absolutely mortified at the prospect of a rebuild.

Mfers we drafted Mario, Sid, Geno, Maf, Jagr through tanking! Everything good this franchise has ever had started on draft day.

And yet they have zero interest in getting a lottery pick again despite having insane luck with them. Boggles the mind.

Because they didn’t tank for Sid and Geno and Jagr are historically the best picks ever at their respective spots. Also, why would they tank with Crosby still around? Just tank after.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

And honestly, I think Lemieux had the same mandate. It's an unreasonable ask, it's like asking an engineer to design the best car while it also comes in cheaper than any other car. The ideas work in contrast of each other, but they're paying Dubas a ton of money to figure out how to make it work.

The idea will work if your expectations are "they'll be a fringe playoff team for the rest of Crosby's time and then have a good prospect base once Crosby retires". Which if that sells tickets, I'm pretty sure FSG will be content with.

To me it smacks of a somewhat clueless ownership group who still isn't sure how to navigate the toy they bought. I think for all the flaws the Lemieux group had... they at least would get to the point where they took a look at the team and said "yeah we need to intervene this is stupid." See: Shero/Disco. They were beloved and constantly white knighted, too. But they found themselves out of jobs once the failures started stacking up. These days we've gotten VERY comfortable with failure. And the response from ownership seems to be "Have we mentioned how much we love Mike Sullivan? Because we love Mike Sullivan."

I think this league is too tight and too competitive to take half measures. You need those sweet, sweet lottery territory picks out of the draft to truly rebuild. And better players than like... former second rounders that MIGHT be your 3C someday. Trying to keep yourself in fringe playoff position while also thinking that those 24th overall picks you're hoarding are the answer down the road is incredibly stupid unless your scouting department is just chock full of Nostradami. And uh... ours ain't.

 

[Sideline]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1806371238459109668

I find the lack of Jarry disturbing.

 

[Pancakes]

Because they didn’t tank for Sid and Geno and Jagr are historically the best picks ever at their respective spots. Also, why would they tank with Crosby still around? Just tank after.

They shouldn't tank with Crosby around.

It's just funny that they think they can avoid it after he's gone. It's such a lie they're telling themselves/us. There is next to zero chance that getting a few Braden Yagers now is gonna forestall the collapse that is coming.

 

[Zbynek]

What’s your best-case scenario this offseason for the Pens? What’s your worst case? — @LittleMac0816

Best case: Trade Smith for a mid-level draft pick or prospect. Trade Jarry for a first- or second-round pick. (Finding a taker for Ryan Graves would be a dream come true for the Penguins, but I can’t in good faith say that this is possible.)

With the $20 million in cap space, sign Jake DeBrusk to play on Sidney Crosby’s left wing. Sign a couple of other legitimate forwards to help the bottom six. Start stockpiling picks and prospects.

Worst case: Dubas can’t find any takers for Smith, Jarry, Graves, or whoever else he wants to unload. Thus, the Penguins ultimately look a lot like last year’s team, only a year older. And the staleness continues.

This is our best case scenario lol. Trade Smith and replace him with a worse version.

Lol @ Trade Jarry for a first round pick

 

[Tom Hanks]

To me it smacks of a somewhat clueless ownership group who still isn't sure how to navigate the toy they bought. I think for all the flaws the Lemieux group had... they at least would get to the point where they took a look at the team and said "yeah we need to intervene this is stupid." See: Shero/Disco. They were beloved and constantly white knighted, too. But they found themselves out of jobs once the failures started stacking up. These days we've gotten VERY comfortable with failure. And the response from ownership seems to be "Have we mentioned how much we love Mike Sullivan? Because we love Mike Sullivan."

I think this league is too tight and too competitive to take half measures. You need those sweet, sweet lottery territory picks out of the draft to truly rebuild. And better players than like... former second rounders that MIGHT be your 3C someday. Trying to keep yourself in fringe playoff position while also thinking that those 24th overall picks you're hoarding are the answer down the road is incredibly stupid unless your scouting department is just chock full of Nostradami. And uh... ours ain't.

Selling everything now might force these guys out and that would be awful for business.

We are still a bubble team. If at the deadline we’re out then sell for picks/prospects and try again for the next 2 (maybe 3) seasons. I imagine Sid retires after that & Malkin’s more open to moving after that.

 

[Pancakes]

Selling everything might force these guys out and that would be awful for business.

We are still a bubble team. If at the deadline we’re out then sell for picks/prospects and try again for the next 2 (maybe 3) seasons. I imagine Sid retires after that & Malkin’s more open to moving after that.

View attachment 888062

I think Malkin will retire/go to play in Russia by the end of his current deal unless the Pens' fortunes drastically change for the better over the next two years.

I suspect Sid signs a two year deal and plays that out and then evaluates again in 2027 whether he wants to continue his career and if so whether he wants it to be here.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Selling everything now might force these guys out and that would be awful for business.

We are still a bubble team. If at the deadline we’re out then sell for picks/prospects and try again for the next 2 (maybe 3) seasons. I imagine Sid retires after that & Malkin’s more open to moving after that.

View attachment 888062

I don't want to sell everything. I was and still am in favor of keeping the core. They deserve it and frankly haven't been at all the problem, yet. They need to pick a lane. Now that they retained the core they need to do everything they can to support them until Sid retires in order to give them at least reasonable shots at winning a round or two. And most importantly they needed to fire the failure-soaked head coach pretty much as soon as they took over the team.

But here we are... forever "evaluating" while Sid's last good years slide on by and these hucksters try to sell it to us as "remaining competitive while building for the future" as they sign the latest like 3M dollar third liner for Sullivan to run into the ground. Frustrating.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm not sure why people are trying to find reasons for Kyle Dubas being a bad GM.

This guy has sucked for nearly 7 years. He got the Canada vibes which is basically everyone in Canada is a genius according to their loud media. But then you realize they haven't won a cup since 1993.

 

[Malkinstheman]

What I dont understand about Sullivan is that hes a supposedly renowned guy across the league. If he was fired right now, there would be 5+ teams calling him immediately. Why exactly does he even want to stay here? No playoffs series win in 6 years, no playoffs in two years. Ignoring the fact that the teams ineptitude is largely his fault, a stretch like this only weighs down a coaches legacy.

 

[Tom Hanks]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1806377948460830820

https://x.com/i/web/status/1806342602322489410

 

[ziggyjoe212]

They're already on the way. Just don't trade your draft picks.

They already have a team/coach that are primed to continually miss the playoffs....what else would you recommend they do to rebuild?

A rebuild inovlves getting rid of your valuable vets in order to obtain picks and prospects so you can be competitive in a couple of years. I would get rid of Rackell, Rust, Geno, EK, Pettersson, Jarry, Letang. Sid isn't going anywhere unless he wants to. If he wants to go to a contender I say send him. He'll fetch a good return.

 

[SEALBound]

View attachment 888054

Hextall is suuuuuuuuuuch an odd hill to die on. It's like going back and saying "No! Rich Kehoe was the best Penguin in franchise history! Above Lemieux, above Jagr, above Sid, and above Malkin! It's Kehoe! I'm right!"

Of all the battles and all the battlefields...it's Ron...Hextall for some people. Baffling.

 

[canadianguy77]

They shouldn't tank with Crosby around.

It's just funny that they think they can avoid it after he's gone. It's such a lie they're telling themselves/us. There is next to zero chance that getting a few Braden Yagers now is gonna forestall the collapse that is coming.

Teams that have guys who make double-digit millions a year don’t seem to be winning cups either.

 

[SEALBound]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1806377948460830820

That's actually a decent deal for both sides if Joshua continues his play. Mikheyev out to retain Joshua is a decent move.

 

[Malkinstheman]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1806377948460830820

Solid contract. If they get Guentzel and avoid an albatross Zadarov contract, will be an insane summer for them.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

He didn't. Depth was fine.

Overblown criticism for people that just want to focus on blaming Hextall for the faults of our coach who can't get anything functioning.

I don't believe there can be a Pens fan who would defend Hextall. That's like a Pens fan hating Crosby.

 

[Sideline]

Teams that have guys who make double-digit millions a year don’t seem to be winning cups either.

The last two Cup winners and the last two runners up both had guys making 10+