Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[Empoleon8771]

Markstrom isn't better than Jarry so I don't really understand trading for Markstrom in any way.

Either you keep Jarry and have Jarry-Blomqvist as a platoon or you trade Jarry for a cheaper platoon goalie and run with Nedjelkovic-platoon goalie.

 

[molon labe]

If Calgary moves Kadri, I bet they are asking for a 1st.

They can ask but he's got a full NMC right now. He will also be 34 in October with 4 more years after that (5 years as of today on the deal). Not sure which other teams would be lining up. If there is a bunch (I'd be surprised) - I think that's where you start talking a bigger deal.

Anyway, I don't see them getting a 1st. I see that team being a team that has to do something this Summer (there are teams every year that have to - they're one of them this year) based on their recency and fanbase tbh.

 

[Gurglesons]

They can ask but he's got a full NMC right now. He will also be 34 in October with 4 more years after that (5 years as of today on the deal). Not sure which other teams would be lining up. If there is a bunch (I'd be surprised) - I think that's where you start talking a bigger deal.

Anyway, I don't see them getting a 1st. I see that team being a team that has to do something this Summer (there are teams every year that have to - they're one of them this year) based on their recency and fanbase tbh.

They don't trade him then.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Just throwing some shit at the wall:

-Jarry to San Jose for Blackwood and Tampa's 2024 3rd
-Smith at $3 million to Vegas for McNabb
-Tampa's 2024 3rd and Nieto to Ottawa for Joseph

-Sign Lafferty (2 years at $2 million) and Lindholm (2 years at $5 million) in UFA
-Re-sign Puustinen (2 years at $1.5 million), Poulin (1 year at $800k), St. Ivany (1 year at $800k), and Nedjelkovic (2 years at $3 million)

O'Connor-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Rakell
Joseph-Lindholm-Puustinen
Lafferty-Eller-Acciari
Poulin-Puljujarvi

Pettersson-Karlsson
McNabb-Letang
Graves-St. Ivany
Ludvig

Nedjelkovic-Blackwood

This has them at $770k in cap space for next year with a cap of $87.5 million. I think Lindholm for 3C may be a bit unrealistic, but at the same time, he didn't have a particularly good year this year so maybe a short term, higher AAV deal is something that could work.

If O'Connor falters on L1, you can bump Lindholm into the top-6 and O'Connor down to 3C, or you can bump Eller up to 3C and move Poulin or Acciari to 4C.

You think there's any possibility Lindholm only signs for $5 million per?

 

[Empoleon8771]

You think there's any possibility Lindholm only signs for $5 million per?

He finished with 43 points in 71 games this year. He didn't have a good year whatsoever.

Maybe the cap jumping will cause teams to be stupid, but I really can't see him getting much more than $5 million.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Markstrom isn't better than Jarry so I don't really understand trading for Markstrom in any way.

Either you keep Jarry and have Jarry-Blomqvist as a platoon or you trade Jarry for a cheaper platoon goalie and run with Nedjelkovic-platoon goalie.

Markstrom is way better than Jarry, Flames have no interest in Jarry with Wolf needing ice time though.

Kadri is only moved if he asks to be and I doubt he will. He has stated he has had fun this year playing with the kids on his line and the last 10-15 games he has been lights out with Kuzmenko. I think Lindholm is a good buy low candidate though on UFA. Either to be a heavy lifting center on the 3rd line or to push Geno to the wing on the 2nd.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Markstrom is way better than Jarry, Flames have no interest in Jarry with Wolf needing ice time though.

Kadri is only moved if he asks to be and I doubt he will. He has stated he has had fun this year playing with the kids on his line and the last 10-15 games he has been lights out with Kuzmenko. I think Lindholm is a good buy low candidate though on UFA. Either to be a heavy lifting center on the 3rd line or to push Geno to the wing on the 2nd.

I mean, Markstrom finished with a .905 save% this year to a .903 save% for Jarry, while Markstrom had an .892 save% last year. He's also 34 and costs more money than Jarry.

 

[Zirakzigil]

I mean, Markstrom finished with a .905 save% this year to a .903 save% for Jarry, while Markstrom had an .892 save% last year. He's also 34 and costs more money than Jarry.

Flames are also rebuilding and traded away 3 of their top 6 defense and their entire top pair this season. Markstrom kept the Flames from being a bottom feeder in the NHL.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Flames are also rebuilding and traded away 3 of their top 6 defense and their entire top pair this season. Markstrom kept the Flames from being a bottom feeder in the NHL.

I mean, the Penguins are an ass team as well.

I dunno I just don't see any sort of appeal whatsoever with swapping out Jarry for Markstrom.

 

[Zirakzigil]

I mean, the Penguins are an ass team as well.

I dunno I just don't see any sort of appeal whatsoever with swapping out Jarry for Markstrom.

I think the only point would be Markstrom will having a similar run length as Sid. You are talking 2-3 years before you do a total scorched earth rebuild. Personally I think Markstrom stays or goes to the Devils, with them parting with Mercer to make it happen. Marky has a NMC and holds all the cards.

 

[molon labe]

I think Markstrom is sneaky good and I'd hate to see him within the division and not on our team.

That being said - yes I'd pine for almost ANYONE other than Jarry at this point. Plenty to choose from - I just personally like the Flames as a trade partner this Summer and think Markstrom is the only "sure" thing in a goalie swap that'll be available to us (with Jarry going back and without tremendous assets being spent on a gamblish position anyway).

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

He finished with 43 points in 71 games this year. He didn't have a good year whatsoever.

Maybe the cap jumping will cause teams to be stupid, but I really can't see him getting much more than $5 million.

And he finished with 64 points the prior year, and 82 points two seasons ago. For the past 5 years prior to this one he was well over a 60 point player. Bare minimum he's getting a Trochek-like deal, so probably closer to $6 million per for more than 2 years.

I mean, I suppose there's a scenario where he goes short/cheap in order to bet on himself and rebound so he can sign a long-term for a huge sum later. But I doubt that would be with the Pens since we don't have the type of players who can "boost" his value.

 

[Zbynek]

Markstrom is so much better than Jarry. I think actually that Pittsburgh would be a nice change of scenery for Markstrom. If that trade's out there you go for it, problem is, Calgary's definitely on Jarry's no-trade list so it's probably moot.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Calgary's definitely on Jarry's no-trade list so it's probably moot.

Doubt its a definite, Jarry played junior in Edmonton and enjoyed his time there. I still do not see the Flames being interested in this swap regardless.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm not saying this to defend Jarry, but it's fascinating to me that people on here argue that this team is both awful defensively while Jarry is also a terrible goalie, and then also argue that goalies with worse or equal stats are better than Jarry. There's just no logical consistency there beyond saying "everything about this team sucks".

I guess it's not just Penguins fans here, a lot of NHL fans in general have really over the top criticism of Jarry that doesn't make sense statistically. If the Penguins sucked defensively like most people say and Jarry was as bad as most fans say, he wouldn't be putting up league average numbers or better. If you have a bad goalie on a team who's bad defensively, wouldn't you expect that goalie to put up horrendous numbers?

 

[Zirakzigil]

I'm not saying this to defend Jarry, but it's fascinating to me that people on here argue that this team is both awful defensively while Jarry is also a terrible goalie, and then also argue that goalies with worse or equal stats are better than Jarry. There's just no logical consistency there beyond saying "everything about this team sucks".

Jarrys issue is that he cant go for a full season. He is an All Star for the first 2/3 of the year, then collapses. By the time the playoffs roll around hes toast. With how good Ned was to finish, I would be curious to see how Jarry could look with a lighter load to start. Letang and Karlsson did no favors to either this season.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Jarrys issue is that he cant go for a full season. He is an All Star for the first 2/3 of the year, then collapses. By the time the playoffs roll around hes toast. With how good Ned was to finish, I would be curious to see how Jarry could look with a lighter load to start. Letang and Karlsson did no favors to either this season.

Yeah like I'm not saying Jarry doesn't have issues and I'm pretty over him as well, I was just commenting that his reputation among fans (which seems not good among both Penguins fans and NHL fans) doesn't really line up with the results he gives.

It's just like if he's a crap goalie playing on a team with crap defense, how is he putting up average or better numbers? Just something isn't lining up here. And it's not only Penguins fans, I think a lot of fans (or a lot more fans) think Jarry is bad.

 

[SomeDude]

I'm not saying this to defend Jarry, but it's fascinating to me that people on here argue that this team is both awful defensively while Jarry is also a terrible goalie, and then also argue that goalies with worse or equal stats are better than Jarry. There's just no logical consistency there beyond saying "everything about this team sucks".

I guess it's not just Penguins fans here, a lot of NHL fans in general have really over the top criticism of Jarry that doesn't make sense statistically. If the Penguins sucked defensively like most people say and Jarry was as bad as most fans say, he wouldn't be putting up league average numbers or better. If you have a bad goalie on a team who's bad defensively, wouldn't you expect that goalie to put up horrendous numbers?

You know that a team can have crappy defense and a bad goalie at the same time, right?

Jarry sucks and the Pens D also blows.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You know that a team can have crappy defense and a bad goalie at the same time, right?

Jarry sucks and the Pens D also blows.

"If the Penguins sucked defensively like most people say and Jarry was as bad as most fans say, he wouldn't be putting up league average numbers or better. If you have a bad goalie on a team who's bad defensively, wouldn't you expect that goalie to put up horrendous numbers?"

Literally from the post you quoted.

If Jarry was this awful goalie and the Penguins D was also awful, Jarry would be putting up horrendous numbers. But in reality, he's average or better statistically in every season.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Yeah like I'm not saying Jarry doesn't have issues and I'm pretty over him as well, I was just commenting that his reputation among fans (which seems not good among both Penguins fans and NHL fans) doesn't really line up with the results he gives.

It's just like if he's a crap goalie playing on a team with crap defense, how is he putting up average or better numbers? Just something isn't lining up here. And it's not only Penguins fans, I think a lot of fans (or a lot more fans) think Jarry is bad.

Hes an above average goalie. Problem is he has some pretty significant valleys and peaks in his play. People tend to remember the negative when that happens. You can win the cup with above average goaltending, if they are stable or peak at the right time.

 

[SomeDude]

"If the Penguins sucked defensively like most people say and Jarry was as bad as most fans say, he wouldn't be putting up league average numbers or better. If you have a bad goalie on a team who's bad defensively, wouldn't you expect that goalie to put up horrendous numbers?"

Literally from the post you quoted.

If Jarry was this awful goalie and the Penguins D was also awful, Jarry would be putting up horrendous numbers. But in reality, he's average or better statistically in every season.

Jarry puts up average numbers every year because every year he looks good before the all-star break and then craps all over the crease the rest of the way. Nobody has ever come up bigger when it mattered less.

That is a garbage goalie.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Jarry's all-star appearances and shining stats for a couple months a season don't mean a f***ing thing to me if he's going to battle injury and have volatile ups and downs annually. /shrug

Dude can eat shit. If he excels elsewhere, cool. I f***ing hate the dude as a goalie though; he's dollar store MAF.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Hes an above average goalie. Problem is he has some pretty significant valleys and peaks in his play. People tend to remember the negative when that happens. You can win the cup with above average goaltending, if they are stable or peak at the right time.

Yeah and I agree, and I'm explicitly not saying this as a defense of Jarry.

I think this all goes back to what I was posting a day or two ago about how awful goaltending is in the NHL right now. Everything said in here about Jarry could be 100% true, but he's still an average or better goalie because so many teams have worse goalies than him.

 

[OnMyOwn]

I feel like Sid was only making like 3 million a year for the last couple due to his front loaded contract. His final contract will have 87 in it, so I’m hoping he goes for like 6.87 haha.

But if he just sticks with 8.7, that’d be nice as well and he’d actually get a significant yearly pay bump with that number without changing his current cap hit.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Jarry puts up average numbers every year because every year he looks good before the all-star break and then craps all over the crease the rest of the way. Nobody has ever come up bigger when it mattered less.

That is a garbage goalie.

It's funny that people on here are arguing how important those lost points earlier in the year were for the Penguins missing the playoffs, with mentioning their collapses in like October-January as major lost opportunities, but also Jarry playing well before the all-star break doesn't matter.

I don't know why I'm trying to bring logic into an emotional discussion about Jarry, especially when I don't even like Jarry at this point. Just something I find interesting.