Line Combos: Pens 2022-2023 Training Camp thread: Its happenings

[Flying Dego]

He’s not going to make it either? Or he’s not “young?” I use the term “young” in relative terms.

DOC is 100% AHL bound to start the year.

Zohorna followed by Poehling are the only "young/new" guys. Unless one is waived for Archibald.

Smith looks to be the 3LD lock which would be a decent suprise considering his waiver eligibility...but the team seems to like his offensive upside.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I’m guessing there will be zero surprises when it comes to who makes the team then? Basically DOC will be the only “young” guy that makes it?

Z might be the only surprise. Think Sully's finally warmed up to him. He probably read HF boards over the summer.

Injuries will likely open up more spots though. Still 12 days to get hurt. That's an eternity in Pens land.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

1. I wish we had someone better than Tanger to QB that PP1 but we don't. We are in mercy of him making right passes (low percentage), his shot is not much of a threat from the blue line, and I don't trust him in his role on entry. However we dion't have anyone even remotely as good to man that position (High hopes that Smith could develop)

This right here.

Letang, even at his peak, was never a good PPQB. Hence why he sometimes lost his spot there to second pairing guys in his prime when crunch time rolled around. Nowadays? Yeah, that’s one area where even a guy like Klingberg would’ve been an upgrade.

 

[Gurglesons]

@Flying Dego Yohe was on the Locked On Penguin Podcast and said he thinks Z has the inside track over every other fringe forward.

 

[Peat]

When they sent Zohorna down last season, they said his conditioning needed work. Think they said he's the fittest they've seen him, no?

Right now it feels like they've got a 25 man squad in mind, with DOC and Caggiula going down and Zohorna and Archibald staying up. The ??? is about how they handle the 9 dmen where I don't think they've got anything solid in mind yet. If they can get it to 24, they're probably hoping LTIR can make that 23 for the whole season.

 

[Flying Dego]

@Flying Dego Yohe was on the Locked On Penguin Podcast and said he thinks Z has the inside track over every other fringe forward.

I'm over the top in my Zohorna antics but ya he's surprisingly playing as one of Sully's starting forwards. I think his conditioning being higher and him showing that he can hold down at center is gonna push him into the lineup.

With ERod gone Sullivan needs bottom 6 wings that can slide to center to help. I think Big Z is showing he can do that.

Besides his high ability to turn pucks over I enjoy watching his passing. He's got pretty decent hands for a big fella. Just intrigued by his potential and its now or never at 26.

 

[Empoleon8771]

When they sent Zohorna down last season, they said his conditioning needed work. Think they said he's the fittest they've seen him, no?

Right now it feels like they've got a 25 man squad in mind, with DOC and Caggiula going down and Zohorna and Archibald staying up. The ??? is about how they handle the 9 dmen where I don't think they've got anything solid in mind yet. If they can get it to 24, they're probably hoping LTIR can make that 23 for the whole season.

Yeah Sullivan has been insanely complementary of Zohona's fitness level. It seems like Sullivan really likes him as a player, so I don't think they'd try to pull any BS with him.

The bolded is what I'm thinking as well. If I had to guess what happens, I'd say that there are enough injuries where the Penguins keep up all of Archibald, Poehling and Zohorna this year. You'll always have at least 1 guy on IR who gives you the roster spot/cap space to be able to keep up all 3 of them. They'll waive Friedman or trade POJ to get to 24 and they'll keep the other guys up as injuries give them the space to do so.

 

[Peat]

I'm over the top in my Zohorna antics but ya he's surprisingly playing as one of Sully's starting forwards. I think his conditioning being higher and him showing that he can hold down at center is gonna push him into the lineup.

With ERod gone Sullivan needs bottom 6 wings that can slide to center to help. I think Big Z is showing he can do that.

Besides his high ability to turn pucks over I enjoy watching his passing. He's got pretty decent hands for a big fella. Just intrigued by his potential and its now or never at 26.

I agree that the versatility helps but the team isn't short of guys who can play C right now. Poehling and DOC both do it, and I don't think we're far away from Poulin call-ups.

What's really getting it done is just being good at this hockey business.


Incidentally, I'm guessing that Poulin was meant to play this game before the family news came through, and I'm wondering whether they'll keep DOC as a top 6 wing and press Hallander or drop DOC to that C role.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

This right here.

Letang, even at his peak, was never a good PPQB. Hence why he sometimes lost his spot there to second pairing guys in his prime when crunch time rolled around. Nowadays? Yeah, that’s one area where even a guy like Klingberg would’ve been an upgrade.

Trying to remember how that went down.
Schultz replaced Letang in 2017 when he got hurt and that was his big break for his career year.
Apart from that, I vaguely recall him getting replaced for brief periods. These were the PP TOI/GP in Schultz's entire stay here....
Letang 3:29
Schultz 2:33

PPP/60 over those 5 seasons, 2015-16 to 2019-20:
Letang 5.17
Schultz 4.42

I wish I could segregate only PP1 stats to make a fair comparison, since Schultz often had PP2.

To assess Letang, best I can do is look at his PPP/60 relative to other PP1 D's across the league in recent years.
Let's say 3 year sample size, with a minimum of 2:45 PP TOI per game:

He's at 4.76. So that's a fall from his younger years listed above.
Best in the league is Hedman at 7.43. Letang would rank 14th in the league with these filters.
Klingberg is 5th. So you got a point there.

But it's also important to assess linemate strength. Hedman has basically the perfect setup when everyone's healthy. 2 one-timer elite bombers on the walls, Killorn and Point.
Letang hasn't had a really good left wall player since Phil. Jake isn't a particularly excellent PP player either.

So all things considered I'd call him a good PP QB, but not elite.

 

[Peat]

Trying to remember how that went down.
Schultz replaced Letang in 2017 when he got hurt and that was his big break for his career year.
Apart from that, I vaguely recall him getting replaced for brief periods. These were the PP TOI/GP in Schultz's entire stay here....
Letang 3:29
Schultz 2:33

PPP/60 over those 5 seasons, 2015-16 to 2019-20:
Letang 5.17
Schultz 4.42

I wish I could segregate only PP1 stats to make a fair comparison, since Schultz often had PP2.

Use line tool on NST to see how often Schultz played with Sid and Geno on it. You can add Letang as well and exclude games where someone was missing to see how often he was replaced rather than just injured, or use game log to track all the games Schultz played serious time with other PP1 players and compare to Letang's games played.

 

[Gurglesons]

Schultz never really replaced Letang. He just had one good run when Letang was out and then proceeded to a score a single powerplay goal over 3 years at 5.5 million.

Good ol' Rutherford. Then again I commended that contract like a fool with @ColePens.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Use line tool on NST to see how often Schultz played with Sid and Geno on it. You can add Letang as well and exclude games where someone was missing to see how often he was replaced rather than just injured, or use game log to track all the games Schultz played serious time with other PP1 players and compare to Letang's games played.

Line tool hasn't worked for me the last 3 times I tried. Idk why. It's not my adblocker. Just no results after putting in the filters.
I use Frozenpools, but it's not as in depth in some regards.

 

[Peat]

Line tool hasn't worked for me the last 3 times I tried. Idk why. It's not my adblocker. Just no results after putting in the filters.
I use Frozenpools, but it's not as in depth in some regards.

You using the right season? It's now switched to automatically doing 22-23 pre-season.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Trying to remember how that went down.
Schultz replaced Letang in 2017 when he got hurt and that was his big break for his career year.
Apart from that, I vaguely recall him getting replaced for brief periods. These were the PP TOI/GP in Schultz's entire stay here....
Letang 3:29
Schultz 2:33

PPP/60 over those 5 seasons, 2015-16 to 2019-20:
Letang 5.17
Schultz 4.42

I wish I could segregate only PP1 stats to make a fair comparison, since Schultz often had PP2.

To assess Letang, best I can do is look at his PPP/60 relative to other PP1 D's across the league in recent years.
Let's say 3 year sample size, with a minimum of 2:45 PP TOI per game:

He's at 4.76. So that's a fall from his younger years listed above.
Best in the league is Hedman at 7.43. Letang would rank 14th in the league with these filters.
Klingberg is 5th. So you got a point there.

But it's also important to assess linemate strength. Hedman has basically the perfect setup when everyone's healthy. 2 one-timer elite bombers on the walls, Killorn and Point.
Letang hasn't had a really good left wall player since Phil. Jake isn't a particularly excellent PP player either.

So all things considered I'd call him a good PP QB, but not elite.

Sure, I think that’s fair, depending on your definition of good and elite I suppose.

I recall Niskanen taking over PP1 duties briefly as well.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

You using the right season? It's now switched to automatically doing 22-23 pre-season.

Yep. It's hard to screw up, since the player drop down list changes based on the year. I'm the careful type, so I doubt I goofed every time.
Always used to work and I haven't changed anything, so I don't get it.

 

[Peat]

Yep. It's hard to screw up, since the player drop down list changes based on the year. I'm the careful type, so I doubt I goofed every time.
Always used to work and I haven't changed anything, so I don't get it.

Well that sucks.

Anyway, in the three seasons 17-18 to 19-20, in the 109 games that all of Sid, Tanger, and Schultz played, when it came to the PP, Sid spent 228:24 with just Tanger, 126:19 with just Schultz, and 56:49 with both.

 

[Pens x]

Schultz never really replaced Letang. He just had one good run when Letang was out and then proceeded to a score a single powerplay goal over 3 years at 5.5 million.

Good ol' Rutherford. Then again I commended that contract like a fool with @ColePens.

I thought you were praising the Pens for fixing him recently?

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Sure, I think that’s fair, depending on your definition of good and elite I suppose.

I recall Niskanen taking over PP1 duties briefly as well.

For me "elite" in sports means top 5-10% depending on the size of the field. The smaller the field the bigger the %.
So let's say there's 32 main PP QB's in the league, Letang would have to be in the top 3 for me to call him elite. Next level below is excellent.

People use that word too easily these days, so I try to keep it tight instead of watering it down.

It's important to note also that PP QB's don't always need to be D-men. Kessel was our QB when here, not Letang.

Well that sucks.

Anyway, in the three seasons 17-18 to 19-20, in the 109 games that all of Sid, Tanger, and Schultz played, when it came to the PP, Sid spent 228:24 with just Tanger, 126:19 with just Schultz, and 56:49 with both.

Cheers.
Yeah so a little over half. That makes a lotta sense. It gets even trickier when you have to factor in injuries and 1st choices of D-men based on availablity.

Like how many games was Letang just straight up demoted by Sullivan? I really don't think it was a significant number.

 

[Gurglesons]

I thought you were praising the Pens for fixing him recently?

We won a cup with Schultz playing a top four role.

The issue was what happened to him after 17-18 which was major shoulder and lower body injuries.

 

[Peat]

Cheers.
Yeah so a little over half. That makes a lotta sense. It gets even trickier when you have to factor in injuries and 1st choices of D-men based on availablity.

Like how many games was Letang just straight up demoted by Sullivan? I really don't think it was a significant number.

That sample was straight up injury free. We don't know how many times in that period Sully split the power plays so Schultz wasn't truly with PP1, but even if you remove half of the Sid-Schultz time as that, I think you get enough minutes for 15-20 games of demotion out of the 109.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

That sample was straight up injury free. We don't know how many times in that period Sully split the power plays so Schultz wasn't truly with PP1, but even if you remove half of the Sid-Schultz time as that, I think you get enough minutes for 15-20 games of demotion out of the 109.

Oh you managed to filter it so all 3 were playing, yet not together on the same unit necessarily. Didn't know that's an option.
15-20 sounds about right. Schultz got a few cracks here and there when Letang was missing the net all the time and choking with the lateral giveaways at the blue line.

 

[Pens x]

Yeah that's not a good look for our management/coaching staff.
They preach accountability and performance, and then do the opposite. I would be pretty discouraged attending these camps in some player's positions, knowing you're just there to maintain appearances for the organization and never had a chance.

This

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

serious Q- who is behind POJ as far as LD? Seems like there’s no calvary coming if they do move on.

I get Friedman can play there, but is there anyone that’s a left shot and capable of some time? That’s what gives me pause.

I could see them using IR for 13F - 8D

 

[Randy Butternubs]

serious Q- who is behind POJ as far as LD? Seems like there’s no calvary coming if they do move on.

I get Friedman can play there, but is there anyone that’s a left shot and capable of some time? That’s what gives me pause.

I could see them using IR for 13F - 8D

Dumoulin
Pettersson
Smith/POJ/Rutta
Friedman
Ouellet

 

[Jacob]

Ruhwedel and Rutta can play the left.