Line Combos: Pens 2022-2023 Training Camp thread: Its happenings

[SomeDude]

You call Kapanen a very good player? Lol

Your criteria for a very good player is Guentzel level? Guy is one of the top wingers in the league. I'd say drafting a legit full time NHLer outside of the top 10-15 is pretty solid. I don't think people realize how many draft picks don't amount to jack.

 

[Gurglesons]

You call Kapanen a very good player? Lol

Yes a player putting up .5 PPG and playing 300+ NHL games is a solid late round 1st pick.

 

[Peat]

I mean, great if true and keeps going, but huh? Does that actually jive with reality, those of you who follow WB/S?

That quote looks more like he's talking about what he's seeing right now rather than what he saw at the end of last season.

That said, fwiw as someone whose watching tailed off in the second half, I think that there was a sharp ascent there that took him to pretty different. Path to scary-good? Seems a little heady, and the sort of thing that makes you remember coaches aren't in the business of reporting complete truth to the general public, but I think there's definite strengths in terms of creativity around the net and puck possession to build on. I don't think he's ever going to wow people with his flair or athleticism, but he can be the sort of guy who is consistently where the opposition don't want him with the skill to take advantage of it. Those guys can be pretty good. Scary good? I dunno. I guess I'd wait 20 games into the season to see how I feel about that. If Forrest is watching him right now and seeing a guy who's taken a big step in terms of athleticism and decision making speed, great... but pre-season isn't really the best time to measure that.

Also, fwiw again as this is definitely the mark of an optimist assuming logic, but I keep telling myself that the guys evaluating Poulin right now have next to zero emotional or professional investment in him, and that they're not dummies, and if they didn't like where he was going they'd have probably tried to use him as currency before the shine completely went off him. But I could be assuming too much.

 

[Flying Dego]

Did I say power forward?



Poulin would be the biggest forward on the team after carter in weight. Last year was his first pro season. The pros are much faster and taking a year to adapt is normal. Faster players can definitely adapt more quickly

Ahem...he's third behind Big Z. Also our team is smaller at forward in general.

The average forward is 6'1 200ish pounds...pretty darn close to Poulin. I'm just a downer here...maybe he's really gonna impress. I'm just not going to include him as an impact guy so that if he does it's a nice suprise.

I'd like to start calling these new age "power forwards" thicc bois.

I agree with this. Poulin is a Thicc Boi and that apparently held back his speed.

But he's not Dummy Thicc like a Carter so no excuses.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Poulin isn't a power forward, he's a jack of all trades utility forward with size. His skillset is pretty much the ideal 3rd line center or complementary 2nd line winger. It just remains to be seen if he can actually hit that upside.

Down the line, I actually think his skillset would complement Malkin and Rakell really well. Be more of the dirty area, defensively focused guy and let Malkin and Rakell skill it up. Kinda like what Malone-Malkin-Sykora was back in the day.

 

[Pancakes]

Poulin isn't a power forward, he's a jack of all trades utility forward with size. His skillset is pretty much the ideal 3rd line center or complementary 2nd line winger. It just remains to be seen if he can actually hit that upside.

Down the line, I actually think his skillset would complement Malkin and Rakell really well. Be more of the dirty area, defensively focused guy and let Malkin and Rakell skill it up. Kinda like what Malone-Malkin-Sykora was back in the day.

It'd be nice if he at least developed into a solid bottom six forward.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It'd be nice if he at least developed into a solid bottom six forward.

I think the only way he wouldn't develop into a bottom-6 forward is if his skating keeps him out of the NHL. If he improves that, I think he's almost a surefire bottom-6 guy.

He doesn't have any notable talents, outside of maybe his shot, but he has basically no notable weaknesses outside of his skating either.

 

[Flying Dego]

I think the only way he wouldn't develop into a bottom-6 forward is if his skating keeps him out of the NHL. If he improves that, I think he's almost a surefire bottom-6 guy.

He doesn't have any notable talents, outside of maybe his shot, but he has basically no weaknesses outside of his skating either.

It'd sure be swell if he shows up to camp and suprises by outperforming and forcing a spot. We need one of these guys to take a jump to help out if we want to improve our chances of getting past round 1.

 

[Andy99]

Yes a player putting up .5 PPG and playing 300+ NHL games is a solid late round 1st pick.

Fine if you want to consider Kapanen but there’s no one else…also, he was developed by another team

 

[Peat]

It'd sure be swell if he shows up to camp and suprises by outperforming and forcing a spot. We need one of these guys to take a jump to help out if we want to improve our chances of getting past round 1.

He's straight up not forcing a spot. Hope he and some other guys light things up in WBS and that when the injuries come, they put down a marker in the NHL.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Kapanen?



People said the same thing in 2015 then we had an explosion of talent. I don't think we have the same quality right now, but I think some of the players in the A would surprise you if they actually played.

In fairness, if a Kapanen-level player is the best a team can do when it comes to the draft I think that team's going to be perennially near the bottom of the standings.

IMO, a team is bad at drafting if they can't seem to draft impact guys (ie. guys good enough to be core pieces, not just fringe guys who round out your bottom six or bottom pairing). So if the last time the Pens drafted a forward who actually is part of the core and not just part of the depth is 2013, it is kind of troubling.

Having said that, if Poulin could become a Kapanen-level player (not stylistically, but in terms of overall production) I'd be ecstatic because I'm not sold he'll even become that.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'd like to start calling these new age "power forwards" thicc bois.

Third'ed

 

[Gurglesons]

In fairness, if a Kapanen-level player is the best a team can do when it comes to the draft I think that team's going to be perennially near the bottom of the standings.

IMO, a team is bad at drafting if they can't seem to draft impact guys (ie. guys good enough to be core pieces, not just fringe guys who round out your bottom six or bottom pairing). So if the last time the Pens drafted a forward who actually is part of the core and not just part of the depth is 2013, it is kind of troubling.

Having said that, if Poulin could become a Kapanen-level player (not stylistically, but in terms of overall production) I'd be ecstatic because I'm not sold he'll even become that.

The last time Tampa drafted a "player in their core" was 2014 and they've been to three straight cup finals. Unless you consider Cirelli a core player.

 

[Andy99]

The last time Tampa drafted a "player in their core" was 2014 and they've been to three straight cup finals. Unless you consider Cirelli a core player.

Tampa has hit on lower draft picks consistently: Point, Cirelli, Colton, Kucherov are all way better players than we’ve drafted in Round 2 or lower…lol

 

[Gurglesons]

Tampa has hit on lower draft picks consistently: Point, Cirelli, Colton, Kucherov are all way better players than we’ve drafted in Round 2 or lower…lol

Our # 1 D, our top line winger, and our starting goaltender and previous back to back cup winning goaltender were all drafted in Round 2 or lower.

I don't think this team drafted well under Rutherford, but realistically most of what should be our impact picks were made in 2015 and then post 2019.

 

[Pancakes]

Guentzel was a third rounder.

He's not Kucherov but I'm not sure he's much worse than Point if even at all

 

[Andy99]

Our # 1 D, our top line winger, and our starting goaltender and previous back to back cup winning goaltender were all drafted in Round 2 or lower.

I don't think this team drafted well under Rutherford, but realistically most of what should be our impact picks were made in 2015 and then post 2019.

we were talking about 2013 and later…

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'd be fine simply drafting a guy that could hang in the middle six. Maybe even play on the second line in a complimentary role if we're gettin' REAL ambitious, here. I'm not even asking for core pieces.

But I mean... JR traded all but two first rounders.

Hell look at it this way... at least in recent years they didn't have a golden, once-in-15+-years chance to draft a top ten guy only to get real stupid with it and go with some doughy project from a team you suddenly grew an unhealthy infatuation with whose position you are already flush with both on-roster and in your prospect pool. That would have been REAL frustrating.

 

[Pancakes]

I'd be fine simply drafting a guy that could hang in the middle six. I'm not even asking for core pieces, here.

But I mean... JR traded all but two first rounders.

Hell look at it this way... at least in recent years they didn't have a golden, once-in-15+-years chance to draft a top ten guy only to get real stupid with it and draft some doughy project from a team you suddenly grew an unhealthy infatuation with.

Getting a top six forward in the draft is a great accomplishment I think no matter where you're doing it*

*the one caveat being with a top 10 pick you'd expect to at least get that. But with any pick outside of the top 10 I'd say getting a top six forward is a home run

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It's not exactly common, that's for sure.

Particularly in the bottom third. And doubly so when you trade all but two first rounders throughout the course of a GM's entire tenure.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'd be fine simply drafting a guy that could hang in the middle six. Maybe even play on the second line in a complimentary role if we're gettin' REAL ambitious, here. I'm not even asking for core pieces.

But I mean... JR traded all but two first rounders.

Hell look at it this way... at least in recent years they didn't have a golden, once-in-15+-years chance to draft a top ten guy only to get real stupid with it and go with some doughy project from a team you suddenly grew an unhealthy infatuation with. That would have been REAL frustrating.

Kapanen you mean?

we were talking about 2013 and later…

Why are you bringing up Kucherov then?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

You can go ahead and be excited about Kapanen if you want. I learned my lesson last year.

He's about what you expect for a bottom third first rounder, though. A third liner who can play up the lineup sorta kinda maybe sometimes. A middle six guy, in other words. So fair enough I suppose.

This is why I don't care overmuch about trading first rounders while Sid is around. Some people get all hot and bothered about collecting like... 24th overall picks. Ho hum.

 

[Andy99]

Kapanen you mean?



Why are you bringing up Kucherov then?

agree…I shouldn’t have brought up Kucherov, but he’s just a great example of how you can still get top talent outside round 1…the point still stands: over the last 10 years, we’ve sucked at drafting and Tampa has been really good…lol

 

[Peat]

Our # 1 D, our top line winger, and our starting goaltender and previous back to back cup winning goaltender were all drafted in Round 2 or lower.

I don't think this team drafted well under Rutherford, but realistically most of his impact picks were made in 2015 and then post 2019.

Both top line wingers at that.


I mean, everyone knows the score here, right? Teams that draft as well as us end up near the bottom sooner or later. Teams that spend as many picks as us in pursuit of success often draft as well as us. Lots of teams find good players outside of the top picks to bolster their core - like us - but nobody does it year after year. Like us. We aren't some abnormal failure. We are simply following the same path as happens to every team who's successful for a long time, and if we look spectacularly deficient it's because we've been spectacularly successful and unbending in pursuit of it.

The whole why couldn't we continue to be abnormally successful at drafting in the later rounds thing is just... yeah, dramatic.

I thought you were being over the top but you aren't wrong...even with the lack of 1sts we missed on basically a ton of 2nd/3rd rounders through the last 8 years.

That list is depressing

Edit:
2nd rounders post Guentzel
Sprong
Gustavsson
Bjorkqvist
Lauzon
Addison
Hallander

In fairness I won't do past 2019 as they are still fairly young in their stages but...

Sprong is an NHLer who was traded for an NHLer.
Gustavsson is an NHLer who was traded for an NHLer.
Bjorkqvist and Lauzon were probably dumb ideas from the get go, but their injuries made it very difficult on them (impossible for Lauzon).
Addison is probably an NHLer and was traded for an NHLer
Hallander is maybe an NHLer and was traded for an NHLer

Five out of six have them made the league, and the only one that didn't had his career ended by concussions. About three of them, at a guess, will make a 100 games. A quick look gave 70% for 1 game and 34% for a hundred, so we've ahead of the curve on the first and look like making it on the second. That's without any high 2nds either.

That list shouldn't be depressing. It should be expected. It'd be nice to hit a lotto win there but they're rare.

Four out of six played out for the org in terms of value.

 

[Darren McCord]

Ahem...he's third behind Big Z. Also our team is smaller at forward in general.

The average forward is 6'1 200ish pounds...pretty darn close to Poulin. I'm just a downer here...maybe he's really gonna impress. I'm just not going to include him as an impact guy so that if he does it's a nice suprise.


I agree with this. Poulin is a Thicc Boi and that apparently held back his speed.

But he's not Dummy Thicc like a Carter so no excuses.

Zohorna isnt on the team as far as I am concerned right now. Zohorna is 26, O'Conner is 24 and 200lbs. They are both just breaking in.

Poulin is 21 and 208 lbs. I am not saying he will be an impact guy but I am also not worried about him yet. Its been one pro season.