Line Combos: Pens 2022-2023 Training Camp thread: Its happenings

[AuroraBorealis]

How is Archi looking?

Surprisingly quite good so far. Hungry, focused.
Analytics not the best but he did more than some of his linemates.

I can't complain. Just hope it carries over to the real games.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Klim Kostin just got traded for some other plug. Remember when we cared about him?

The hand wringing over the Reaves trade because we missed out on future superstar Klim "Don't call me Kim" Kostin was hilarious, especially now.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The hand wringing over the Reaves trade because we missed out on future superstar Klim "Don't call me Kim" Kostin was hilarious, especially now.

It was dumb as f*** then and dumb as f*** now. Nobody should value a do nothing nobody like Reaves that highly. I don't care if the guy picked ends up a bust years down the line like Kostin or whatever. If you're parting with 1sts, which is entirely fine as a team chasing Cups, you don't target 4th line goons. That's asinine stuff to the highest degree, imo.

It was just a sign of JR just losing his shit, and preceded several years of idiotic, poorly thought out moves (i.e. throwing shit at the wall randomly and praying it'd stick) that took a team from back to back champs to a handful of 1st round exits. /shrug

 

[Shady Machine]

Yeah I understand wanting to maximize value, but trying to maximize value on a guy who probably brings back a 4th at best just seems weird.

I know why they're sending Smith down, it's to give them an extra 3-4 days to get a market for POJ stirring. But players like him already have basically no value and there doesn't seem to be much of a market for him to begin with. I guess I'm just confused for when they'll just cut their losses, put him on waivers and let whatever happens happen.

Hey maybe they don’t think he’s trash like you seem to. Maybe they have a longer view of the team and know that POJ for a few games at 3rd pair doesn’t lose the season and may end up helping the team longer term.

Or maybe they are just waiting a few more days to see how the landscape shakes out. Either way, neither of us know for certain even if you use statements like “I know why x is happening.” The reality is you don’t know.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Hey maybe they don’t think he’s trash like you seem to. Maybe they have a longer view of the team and know that POJ for a few games at 3rd pair doesn’t lose the season and may end up helping the team longer term.

Or maybe they are just waiting a few more days to see how the landscape shakes out. Either way, neither of us know for certain even if you use statements like “I know why x is happening.” The reality is you don’t know.

I never said he was trash, but whatever you want to tell yourself.

 

[Shady Machine]

I never said he was trash, but whatever you want to tell yourself.

Waiver fodder. Better?

Point being, sending Smith down to avoid losing POJ on waivers makes a ton of sense for a variety of reasons. We all agree Smith outplayed him, but salary cap realities matter and losing POJ isn’t something I’m all that excited about just to make sure Smith starts in Pittsburgh. It’s a long season.

 

[Peat]

Hey maybe they don’t think he’s trash like you seem to. Maybe they have a longer view of the team and know that POJ for a few games at 3rd pair doesn’t lose the season and may end up helping the team longer term.

Or maybe they are just waiting a few more days to see how the landscape shakes out. Either way, neither of us know for certain even if you use statements like “I know why x is happening.” The reality is you don’t know.

Much as I agree with a lot of the sentiments, if they like POJ they've got a funny way of showing it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Waiver fodder. Better?

Point being, sending Smith down to avoid losing POJ on waivers makes a ton of sense for a variety of reasons. We all agree Smith outplayed him, but salary cap realities matter and losing POJ isn’t something I’m all that excited about just to make sure Smith starts in Pittsburgh. It’s a long season.

No? I'm talking about exactly what POJ is at this point. He's a waiver eligible young defensemen who hasn't shown he's NHL ready yet. Those guys have basically no value.

Me saying that he has basically no value isn't saying that he's trash. It's the reality of the situation he's in, based on a boatload of examples over the past few years.

 

[Shady Machine]

No? I'm talking about exactly what POJ is at this point. He's a waiver eligible young defensemen who hasn't shown he's NHL ready yet. Those guys have basically no value.

Me saying that he has basically no value isn't saying that he's trash. It's the reality of the situation he's in, based on a boatload of examples over the past few years.

And yet they don’t want to waive him yet. Why do you think that is?

Much as I agree with a lot of the sentiments, if they like POJ they've got a funny way of showing it.

He’s still on the roster. Players are shopped all the time. MP was shopped during the summer and they didn’t get what they wanted for him so he’s still here. I think they still like the guy. No one is saying POJ had a good camp, but he’s still here so to me that means something. Maybe they waive him in a few days and he’s claimed and I sound like an idiot. Totally possible. Until then, I think it’s reasonable to think they would prefer to keep and continue to develop him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

And yet they don’t want to waive him yet. Why do you think that is?

Probably because they don't want to lose him for nothing and only be left with 8 NHL caliber defensemen.

I sincerely doubt that they care specifically about POJ as much as they care about ensuring they have sufficient D depth.

 

[Peat]

He’s still on the roster. Players are shopped all the time. MP was shopped during the summer and they didn’t get what they wanted for him so he’s still here. I think they still like the guy. No one is saying POJ had a good camp, but he’s still here so to me that means something. Maybe they waive him in a few days and he’s claimed and I sound like an idiot. Totally possible. Until then, I think it’s reasonable to think they would prefer to keep and continue to develop him.

I mean I've already sounded like an idiot a few times for thinking them keeping him during the summer meant they've liked it! But they didn't really give him many shots this pre-season and sound very equivocal when talking about him.

Like you, I'm willing to wait for the final outcome. But right now, I think the signs mostly point one way.

 

[Shady Machine]

Probably because they don't want to lose him for nothing and only be left with 8 NHL caliber defensemen.

I sincerely doubt that they care specifically about POJ as much as they care about ensuring they have sufficient D depth.

Fair enough. I think we can say they felt they were at a higher risk of losing him vs Friedman. Doesn’t mean Sully likes POJ over Friedman, but it does mean they value the asset of POJ. We will see how things shake out.

 

[Pancakes]

The hand wringing over the Reaves trade because we missed out on future superstar Klim "Don't call me Kim" Kostin was hilarious, especially now.

Kim Klostin

 

[Flying Dego]

Kim Klostin

Klm Klostin

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The inconvenient potential reality (that I lean toward) is that POJ is nothing and will never amount to any more than a Ruhwedel-tier, borderline AHL/NHL player. /shrug

Whatever. Not a big loss if the team "loses" him. If he exceeds expectations and becomes a regular, cool. I just don't think it's gonna happen. If it does, I don't expect he'll ever be more than a bottom pairing guy.

 

[eXile3]

The inconvenient potential reality (that I lean toward) is that POJ is nothing and will never amount to any more than a Ruhwedel-tier, borderline AHL/NHL player. /shrug

Whatever. Not a big loss if the team "loses" him. If he exceeds expectations and becomes a regular, cool. I just don't think it's gonna happen. If it does, I don't expect he'll ever be more than a bottom pairing guy.

Pretty much this

 

[Shady Machine]

The inconvenient potential reality (that I lean toward) is that POJ is nothing and will never amount to any more than a Ruhwedel-tier, borderline AHL/NHL player. /shrug

Whatever. Not a big loss if the team "loses" him. If he exceeds expectations and becomes a regular, cool. I just don't think it's gonna happen. If it does, I don't expect he'll ever be more than a bottom pairing guy.

23 is still young for a dman. The reality is we don’t know yet. Let’s remember how much hockey some of these guys missed with Covid schedules. He’s only played two seasons of AHL hockey in terms of games played across 3 years and 20 NHL games with 5 points.

I still have hope for the guy but maybe it takes getting waived and picked up somewhere else or maybe he’s a tweener like you said.

All I know is if I were Hextall I’d do what I can to keep him and try to find out. Replacing Dumo or MP with a cheap contract will do wonders for this team.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I know this is an overreaction from pre-season, but I think Poehling looked like he could handle Blueger's role entirely if they were to trade Blueger. The issue with trading Blueger is that you already lost one center option in Zohorna and you shouldn't want to lose another.

Or maybe they'll just say he has a phantom injury that he'll need surgery for

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I know this is an overreaction from pre-season, but I think Poehling looked like he could handle Blueger's role entirely if they were to trade Blueger. The issue with trading Blueger is that you already lost one center option in Zohorna and you shouldn't want to lose another.

Or maybe they'll just say he has a phantom injury that he'll need surgery for

I'd need at least a full season from Poehling here before getting on that boat.
Trading Blue for a crappy pick and eligibility to run 23-man doesn't seem worth it at all.

 

[Flying Dego]

I'd need at least a full season from Poehling here before getting on that boat.
Trading Blue for a crappy pick and eligibility to run 23-man doesn't seem worth it at all.

Right. I know Zohorna could've held the 4C fort...but he made generally poor comments regarding our coaching staff not giving him a proper shot. So we didn't reclaim him. Actually kind of humorous.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Right. I know Zohorna could've held the 4C fort...but he made generally poor comments regarding our coaching staff not giving him a proper shot. So we didn't reclaim him. Actually kind of humorous.

I didn't mind his comments. They weren't too aggressive and they were true. He did play well at this level and got sent down anyway.

 

[Flying Dego]

I didn't mind his comments. They weren't too aggressive and they were true. He did play well at this level and got sent down anyway.

O no they were very valid. But we can't pretend Sully didn't hear that and immediately shut it down.

 

[Peat]

As pointed out, the Pens couldn't reclaim Zohorna and be guaranteed to have him down in WBS at the date for cap compliance, so yes, there's plenty of reason to think his comments had nothing to do with it. No pretence needed.

 

[Pens x]

O no they were very valid. But we can't pretend Sully didn't hear that and immediately shut it down.

Sully hasn’t sent any players packing for awhile; he was overdue.

 

[Flying Dego]

As pointed out, the Pens couldn't reclaim Zohorna and be guaranteed to have him down in WBS at the date for cap compliance, so yes, there's plenty of reason to think his comments had nothing to do with it. No pretence needed.

I don't want reasoning, I want Justice.