Proposal: Penguins-Senators

[Sens of Anarchy]

He doesn't have an NMC?

Oh that changes things then, us Sens fans who thought Anderson for Fleury could be worked around were basing ourselves on the fact that the Penguins would love to get rid of Fleury due to an NMC.

He has a NMC and a modified NTC (lists 18 teams he can be traded to)

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/marc-andre-fleury1

Anyway Pens fans suggesting he is currently any more than marginally better than Anderson are fooling themselves.

 

[Laoghaire]

He has a NMC and a modified NTC (lists 18 teams he can be traded to)

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/marc-andre-fleury1

Anyway Pens fans suggesting he is currently any more than marginally better than Anderson are fooling themselves.

Exactly. Why would Ottawa want to pay more for a goalie that may or may not fit into the system when Anderson already does, is paid less and their owner is a miser? I don't see why Ottawa would add Lazar unless Pouliot is coming back.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

pass. doesn't give the pens a better chance to win this year, which is the only reason to move MAF now.

It actually does help. It gives them plenty of cap room for the trade deadline and also gives them a young player for down the road. Then we do what we want in the off season with the cash and maybe extend Bonino

 

[Pens1566]

I believe his list of teams (12 no or 18 yes) would have been submitted on or about July 1. So it's likely set already.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Would be very interested in bringing Fleury into Ottawa if Pitts goes that route....likely wouldn't be too thrilled with sending much more than Andy from our end....certainly not Lazar nor Dzingle at this time.

 

[bert]

MAF is far better than Anderson. You would be adding a second rounder at least.

That said, lets not be fools. Pittsburgh will trade MAF for picks/prospects, not an average goalie that costs north of 4.0 per season. Pittsburgh won't take any salary players back.

No debate that Fleury is better but it appears you arent taking the situation into account. The pens have to find a team that fleury will waive to or they lose Murray in expansion plus they will have almost 10 million tied up in goalies.... Or the pens have to pay a hefty asset to Vegas so they dont take him.

I like the premise of the deal but Ottawa doesnt have to add Lazar to get it done.

Anderson has also been a much better playoff goaltender than Fleury over the past 5 seasons. He gives the pens cap relief to aquire another player and is a very good option of Murray falters or gets hurt.

 

[bert]

I can think of 10 teams off the top of my head who can afford Fleury's caphit while trading a goalie back to Pittsburgh and Fleury would be an upgrade in net for them.

Oh yeah? I cant, who are they? Which 10 teams are willing to pay to upgrade their goaltending to Marc Andre Fleury with a 5.75 million dollar cap hit.

I can think of the Dallas Stars... Who else? Calgary doesnt have the cap space, I am honestly curious.

 

[SEALBound]

No debate that Fleury is better but it appears you arent taking the situation into account. The pens have to find a team that fleury will waive to or they lose Murray in expansion plus they will have almost 10 million tied up in goalies.... Or the pens have to pay a hefty asset to Vegas so they dont take him.

I like the premise of the deal but Ottawa doesnt have to add Lazar to get it done.

Anderson has also been a much better playoff goaltender than Fleury over the past 5 seasons. He gives the pens cap relief to aquire another player and is a very good option of Murray falters or gets hurt.

But you are also under the illusion that there is no market for MAF. Trust me, there is always a market for a #1 goalie. Calgary, Vancouver, and Dallas and possibly Buffalo could all want him as well.

Penguins are not desperate. They want both MAF and MM for another Cup run.

 

[bert]

But you are also under the illusion that there is no market for MAF. Trust me, there is always a market for a #1 goalie. Calgary, Vancouver, and Dallas and possibly Buffalo could all want him as well.

Penguins are not desperate. They want both MAF and MM for another Cup run.

Calgary doesnt have cap space.

Vancouvers goalies are just fine.

Buffalo doesnt have cap space and Lehner is who they are going with.

There is no expansive market I see three teams Dallas, Carolina and Ottawa.

Anderson has been flat out better than Fleury in the playoffs you're acting like it some huge downgrade when it really isnt. Also gives the pens cap space. He is a much better option than Niemi or Lehtonen as a 2nd goaltender in Pittsburgh.

 

[Cherpak]

But you are also under the illusion that there is no market for MAF. Trust me, there is always a market for a #1 goalie. Calgary, Vancouver, and Dallas and possibly Buffalo could all want him as well.

Penguins are not desperate. They want both MAF and MM for another Cup run.

I'll be absolutely stunned if JR moves MAF before the end of the season.

 

[Dying Alive]

No debate that Fleury is better but it appears you arent taking the situation into account. The pens have to find a team that fleury will waive to or they lose Murray in expansion plus they will have almost 10 million tied up in goalies.... Or the pens have to pay a hefty asset to Vegas so they dont take him.

I like the premise of the deal but Ottawa doesnt have to add Lazar to get it done.

Anderson has also been a much better playoff goaltender than Fleury over the past 5 seasons. He gives the pens cap relief to aquire another player and is a very good option of Murray falters or gets hurt.

That's not accurate. They don't have to find a team that Fleury will waive to. They can buy him out. Admittedly it's not ideal, but Murray's new contract + dead cap space = what the Pens are paying Fleury for the next 3 years. They're no worse off than they were and MAF's contract is up before Murray will need another new one.

They can also trade Fleury to 18 teams without needing him to waive, and nobody knows which teams are on that list. And all of these scenarios are assuming that MAF would refuse to waive his NTC in the first place. Which nobody actually knows if he would or not.

I'll be absolutely stunned if JR moves MAF before the end of the season.

Same. I thought he was just trying to be respectful to Fleury for a while there but now I'm convinced he plans to keep both for the whole season.

 

[Syckle78]

I don't think Fleury is movable in season. I do think both the flames and leafs **** the bed not going after him in the off season if he was available then and the price was reasonable.

 

[SEALBound]

Calgary doesnt have cap space.

Vancouvers goalies are just fine.

Buffalo doesnt have cap space and Lehner is who they are going with.

There is no expansive market I see three teams Dallas, Carolina and Ottawa.

Anderson has been flat out better than Fleury in the playoffs you're acting like it some huge downgrade when it really isnt. Also gives the pens cap space. He is a much better option than Niemi or Lehtonen as a 2nd goaltender in Pittsburgh.

MAF is better than Elliot. I believe this in the short and long term. Penguins could do a Elliot+Smid for MAF deal. That would work for both side.

Lehner is meh at best. Been decent but certainly not looking like a goalie that helps you take the next step. You have no idea the conversations that go on internally.

Vancouver - Miller+ for MAF. Markstrom isn't going to get selected in the draft and MAF is a clear and cut upgrade over him. You can try to argue but you'll just be wrong.

Forgot that Anderson is so much better than MAF...what with all those Stanley Cups he's won for Ottawa and all those series he help them win . Anderson would be a downgrade for the Penguins and MAF would be an upgrade for the Sens. I really don't think there's much debate on that. Anderson+good prospect for MAF+meh prospect is a good basis for a deal.

 

[SensNation613]

MAF is better than Elliot. I believe this in the short and long term. Penguins could do a Elliot+Smid for MAF deal. That would work for both side.

Lehner is meh at best. Been decent but certainly not looking like a goalie that helps you take the next step. You have no idea the conversations that go on internally.

Vancouver - Miller+ for MAF. Markstrom isn't going to get selected in the draft and MAF is a clear and cut upgrade over him. You can try to argue but you'll just be wrong.

Forgot that Anderson is so much better than MAF...what with all those Stanley Cups he's won for Ottawa and all those series he help them win . Anderson would be a downgrade for the Penguins and MAF would be an upgrade for the Sens. I really don't think there's much debate on that. Anderson+good prospect for MAF+meh prospect is a good basis for a deal.

I can guarantee that Tim Murray is not looking to acquire another goaltender ATM. He has had so much confidence in Lehner since the day he drafted him, whether it be justified or not. The only way they look to acquire another goalie is if their forwards & defensemen have developed and they are ready to compete. I don't think they mind developing Lehner and allowing him to make mistakes since the team on its own is a bubble team at best. If they have a good roster and the only thing holding them back is a goaltender, they'll make the move but for now, he's going to grow with the core of Eichel, Ristolainen, Reinhart and ROR.

Your second point isn't a legitimate argument. They didn't win the cup thanks to Fleury, you guys had an incredible team and while he did play a big role in the playoffs that year, he wasn't the main reason you won. Playoffs is not really a strong argument. Anderson was by far our best player in each playoff series and kept us into games that shouldn't have been close... I do agree that MAF is an upgrade on Anderson albeit not a huge one. The question is whether we should add a quality pick/prospect/player on top of Anderson to justify upgrading in net. I don't think the upgrade justifies it because you have reason to take a slight downgrade due to the fact that Anderson doesn't have a NMC, he's cheaper, his contract ends sooner and he would be the best back-up in the league.

 

[SenzZen]

Fleury wouldn't waive to come here.

I'm not all busted up over that, but it's worth noting.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Forgot that Anderson is so much better than MAF...what with all those Stanley Cups he's won for Ottawa and all those series he help them win . Anderson would be a downgrade for the Penguins and MAF would be an upgrade for the Sens. I really don't think there's much debate on that. Anderson+good prospect for MAF+meh prospect is a good basis for a deal.

Anderson is actually lights out in the playoffs. He just hasn't gotten many opportunities because of the team he is playing on. Look at Ottawa's last series against Montreal. Anderson went toe to toe with Carey Price and almost stole the series for Ottawa. Had Ottawa played him the entire series, it is arguable that they would have won. That series Anderson had a .97GAA/.973SVP compared to Hammond's 3.14GAA/.914SVP.

Anderson has a rep as an outstanding playoff goalie dating back to his time in Colorado. He's unfortunately only played 33 playoff games.

As a whole, Anderson is a downgrade on MA Fleury. The entire basis of the trade is to get the Penguins cap relief via avoiding a buyout as well as allow them to shed their NMC. Like I said in a previous post, I am mostly referring to the trade being done as a last resort for the Pens before the expansion draft. In that scenario, I think a 1 for 1 is fair because it helps both teams in different ways. If Ottawa loses faith in Anderson mid season, I think Pittsburgh is then trading from a position of strength and could easily command Lazar+Anderson for Fleury. A bonus for Pittsburgh is that this frees up almost 2M in cap space for them to play with.

One thing Sens fans have to also consider is that if Ryan Dzingel breaks out, Ottawa will likely have to consider protecting him. I understand it is too early to say Ryan Dzingel is going to be a 2nd liner, but he has looked good so far and looked good last season in limited opportunities. So trading Lazar with Anderson to solidify the goaltending position for the next 2+ years (under the assumption Anderson shows he has slowed down this season) wouldn't be an awful move.

 

[Pens1566]

Fleury wouldn't waive to come here.

I'm not all busted up over that, but it's worth noting.

Also worth noting that he might not have to waive to go there.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Also worth noting that he might not have to waive to go there.

He can block 12/29 teams. He probably puts Calgary and Dallas on the list if he is trying to be difficult since they are the two most notorious trade destinations looking for goalies. So that leaves 10/27 left.*So just on paper, there's a much greater chance Ottawa isn't on his NTC list than there is that it is on it.

Until we know exactly who is on his list, it is fair to speculate about a trade to Ottawa.

 

[Empoleon8771]

He can block 12/29 teams. He probably puts Calgary and Dallas on the list if he is trying to be difficult since they are the two most notorious trade destinations looking for goalies. So that leaves 10/27 left.*So just on paper, there's a much greater chance Ottawa isn't on his NTC list than there is that it is on it.

Until we know exactly who is on his list, it is fair to speculate about a trade to Ottawa.

But the problem with that line of thought is that no one actually knows if he did that. I'm not saying you're using that argument, but I've seen other people use that argument for why he won't be traded. It's also interesting to speculate on whether he put Vegas on his NTC. When Vegas officially enters the league, his NTC will be the same NTC he used for this season. If he didn't put Vegas on that list, he would be fair game to be traded there. I don't think the Pens would do that, because they do respect the living hell out of Fleury, but it's a scenario worth looking at.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Also worth noting that he might not have to waive to go there.

The assumption based on the OP (a Pen fan) is that he would be willing or that the Sens are on his good to go list.

 

[Pens1566]

He can block 12/29 teams. He probably puts Calgary and Dallas on the list if he is trying to be difficult since they are the two most notorious trade destinations looking for goalies. So that leaves 10/27 left.*So just on paper, there's a much greater chance Ottawa isn't on his NTC list than there is that it is on it.

Until we know exactly who is on his list, it is fair to speculate about a trade to Ottawa.

Yep, that's the point.

The assumption based on the OP (a Pen fan) is that he would be willing or that the Sens are on his good to go list.

And I was agreeing. Think we're on the same page here.

 

[Peat]

I don't think Fleury is movable in season. I do think both the flames and leafs **** the bed not going after him in the off season if he was available then and the price was reasonable.

Rumour is the Flames were interested only to discover that Rutherford's idea of a reasonable price was actually insane. Guessing it will be much more reasonable at the season's end.


In answer to whoever mentioned Pouliot - that might be doable, depending on whether Pouliot is looking at risk in an expansion draft.

 

[Creativero]

What if Fleury didn't put any of those teams on his NTC? That's about as valid as your question. In reality, absolutely no one on this site know who Fleury put on his NTC. You can't use that as an argument for why Fleury can't be traded because it's pure speculation. He could have put any teams that would be interested in him on his NTC (if he doesn't want to be traded), or he could have put teams who have starting goalies already on his NTC (if he doesn't want to be traded and be a backup). Or he could have put a bunch of bad teams on his NTC (if he doesn't want to go to a bad team) or he could have put a bunch of Canadian teams on his NTC (if he doesn't want to play in Canada) or he could have put a bunch of Eastern teams on his NTC (if he doesn't want to play against the Penguins with regularity). In reality, absolutely no one knows.

And to your question, he could still be traded to Vegas. So there's that. If Fleury puts those 12 teams on his NTC, he'll either need to waive to go to one of those teams, he'll get bought out or he'll be forced to waive his NMC for the expansion draft (with a threat of a buyout, I could see something like this happening where the Pens also pay off Vegas to not take Fleury). However, that's a really specific scenario and it's one of many scenarios that could happen.

Apart from the uncertainty of the universe argument you seem to be going with why would Fleury worry about a team trading for him to be a $5.75 million backup? He might not be the smartest guy in the world but he must have an agent who can help him out with this stuff.

 

[Creativero]

I know shouldn't do this and absolutely anything can happen no matter how little sense it makes, but I'm going to speculate: At this point Fleury will do everything he can to force a buyout. It's simply the best thing for him personally in pretty much every way. If he really does have a market rate contract then it's going to be a 2/3 raise on 5.75 million.