Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: End of an era?

[Andy99]

I don’t have access…

 

[Jag68Sid87]

We don’t have the assets to acquire a younger RD and the only one on the market is Klingberg who is more of the same and if you are going to sign him might as well give Letang his ask.

We don't have the assets to acquire ANY younger RD? That seems wrong.

When a team decides to go younger, they accept younger talent for better talent sometimes. With the hope, of course, that the younger talent will improve with the new team.

How confident are we that we can acquire a young defenseman from outside the organization who will turn things around under Sullivan? I mean, Matheson was a complete shit show before he arrived and he is at least decent now. So, you never know.

Also, I want Joseph in the lineup next season. That means sacrificing one of the LD veterans.

 

[Gurglesons]

We don't have the assets to acquire ANY younger RD? That seems wrong.

When a team decides to go younger, they accept younger talent for better talent sometimes. With the hope, of course, that the younger talent will improve with the new team.

How confident are we that we can acquire a young defenseman from outside the organization who will turn things around under Sullivan? I mean, Matheson was a complete shit show before he arrived and he is at least decent now. So, you never know.

Also, I want Joseph in the lineup next season. That means sacrificing one of the LD veterans.

What young RH D are you thinking?

The only one I think that is available that would come cheap is Ethan Bear and if Carolina couldn’t make him work, I doubt he will here.

Matheson wasn’t a complete shit show. Florida fans had no idea what they were talking about and he had a terrible contract.

 

[Peat]

If you believe the stats saying Letang is no longer an elite or even very good defensive player, and that he is just an elite offensive dman who can play a lot of minutes - if that matches your eye test - the idea that Letang can be replaced becomes a lot more plausible, as the truly irreplaceable part of his play is gone.

 

[K Fleur]

I’ve prefaced this with Letang wanting 8+ so that gives us 1.75 in savings and term.


People said the same thing about Matheson.

Petry strikes me as the type of D that could flourish here and he has been fantastic for the Canadiens.

Would love to add some size up there.

1.75 in savings!? We could bring back both ZAR and Simon.

People said JJ was Trevor Daley too. People just be saying shit.

Yeah definitely need that size. If only Letang were 6’3 that would have made Domingue save those pucks.

 

[Gurglesons]

People said JJ was Trevor Daley too. People just be saying shit.

Yeah definitely need that size. If only Letang were 6’3 that would have made Domingue save those pucks.

Comparing Jack Johnson and one of the best analytical defensemen of the last few years in Petry is a stretch.

Petry is a legitimate top pairing D and has been for nearly a decade.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The Penguins have the assets to pull off a potential Hamilton type of RFA RD that could become available, the problem is that there are no Hamilton type of RFA defensemen available this year. The best RFA RD are Deangelo and Dobson, neither of which are guys you bring in to replace Letang. Not only that, but both of those guys play for teams within the Penguins division, so good luck trading for them.

 

[Gurglesons]

The Penguins have the assets to pull off a potential Hamilton type of RFA RD that could become available, the problem is that there are no Hamilton type of RFA defensemen available this year. The best RFA RD are Deangelo and Dobson, neither of which are guys you bring in to replace Letang. Not only that, but both of those guys play for teams within the Penguins division, so good luck trading for them.

Hamilton cost Carolina Elias Lindholm and Noah Hanifin. Granted Carolina got Fox and Ferland too, but still he costed a shit ton.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Hamilton cost Carolina Elias Lindholm and Noah Hanifin.

But Hamilton cost Calgary a 1st and 2 2nds, which the Penguins could feasibly do if a RFA like him became available. The issue is there aren't any RFAs available like that.

If you believe the stats saying Letang is no longer an elite or even very good defensive player, and that he is just an elite offensive dman who can play a lot of minutes - if that matches your eye test - the idea that Letang can be replaced becomes a lot more plausible, as the truly irreplaceable part of his play is gone.

And just to throw this out as well:




Granted this chart was Petry's from a year ago, I don't see a more recent player card on twitter.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

What young RH D are you thinking?

The only one I think that is available that would come cheap is Ethan Bear and if Carolina couldn’t make him work, I doubt he will here.

Matheson wasn’t a complete shit show. Florida fans had no idea what they were talking about and he had a terrible contract.

In the playoffs, Matheson was absolutely horrendous before coming to Pittsburgh.

Someone like Gustav Lindstrom comes to mind, someone who could be deemed expendable due to Seider and others. Hronek too, although perhaps he is not as available. Maybe someone like Artem Zub in Ottawa. Again, there could be a surplus there.

How about free agency? Josh Manson checks a ton of boxes, albeit he will be expensive and we have cap issues. He is young and mean and solid, though.

When teams want to make moves, there are a lot of options/opportunities. Ethan Bear is not the only right-handed D-man available, that is silly.

 

[Gurglesons]

But Hamilton cost Calgary a 1st and 2 2nds, which the Penguins could feasibly do if a RFA like him became available. The issue is there aren't any RFAs available like that.

Maybe. Boston knew what position that 1st was in.

In the playoffs, Matheson was absolutely horrendous before coming to Pittsburgh.

Someone like Gustav Lindstrom comes to mind, someone who could be deemed expendable due to Seider and others. Hronek too, although perhaps he is not as available. Maybe someone like Artem Zub in Ottawa. Again, there could be a surplus there.

How about free agency? Josh Manson checks a ton of boxes, albeit he will be expensive and we have cap issues. He is young and mean and solid, though.

When teams want to make moves, there are a lot of options/opportunities. Ethan Bear is not the only right-handed D-man available, that is silly.

Meh. Everyone on that Florida team was horrible that year defensively.

I’d be down for acquiring Zub. Manson isn’t that young. The Detroit guys aren’t really top four D on a contender and Hronek with Matheson would be scary.

 

[Pens x]

I see the “we have no assets or cap space argument; let Hextall sleep and enjoy his summer” narrative is in full force.

 

[Peat]

Pull this season's stats from NST, and Petry was a massively better playdriver than Letang at 5v5 relative to the rest of his team. He's about 50-100% than Letang in all attacking 5v5 relative stats and far far better than that in defence. He's also playing two minutes less a night which helps a lot, and the rest of his team were shit which helps a lot, and it's just possession stats so who knows, but the idea that there's not a huge difference between Letang and Petry at this point is not insane.

Very difficult to compare on special teams as Petry was a 1st unit PKer and 2nd unit PPer, and vice versa for Letang.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

I don’t have access…

I mean honestly, we have discussed it extensively and I'm sure they come to the same conclusion. Malkin is the best center available in free agency.

It just comes down to whether they think he can be healthy enough to be beneficial to the team. Does Trochek for 75 games and say 55 points and good defense make the team better than Malkin for 55 games and 55 points and crap defense. I think they will cost around the same.

The only reason I mention Trochek is because he is from Pittsburgh I think they have a chance to sign him. He is the only player that could take a true hometown discount. And when I mean discount, I mean actually signing with Pittsburgh. I think the money will be pretty close to the same as other teams.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I posted a trade thread on the main boards and the response from Habs fans was basically "we'd take just getting out of his contract" for what he'd cost, so I think that could actually add another wrinkle in the situation. I'd be a bit hesitant to have to trade a 1st and a prospect for Petry to replace Letang, but to get Petry for free or even trade Zucker for him (which a Habs fan said they'd do) would definitely change up the calculus.

Here were the comments I got:

I don't think "attractive" is in the cards for Montreal in a Petry trade. Both sides are willing to go their separate ways and Montreal probably just wants the cap space.

That being said, 35 year olds with 3 year deals will scare off people, but a mildly positive return like a 2nd rounder or equivalent value would likely get it done.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I mean honestly, we have discussed it extensively and I'm sure they come to the same conclusion. Malkin is the best center available in free agency.

It just comes down to whether they think he can be healthy enough to be beneficial to the team. Does Trochek for 75 games and say 55 points and good defense make the team better than Malkin for 55 games and 55 points and crap defense. I think they will cost around the same.

The only reason I mention Trochek is because he is from Pittsburgh I think they have a chance to sign him. He is the only player that could take a true hometown discount. And when I mean discount, I mean actually signing with Pittsburgh. I think the money will be pretty close to the same as other teams.

If you really want Trocheck, sign Trocheck. That should not change anything re: Malkin.

Carter can play wing. Blueger does not have to be kept. You can load up at center and go young on the wings.

This should not be an either/or scenario: Malkin vs. Trocheck.

 

[Gurglesons]

I posted a trade thread on the main boards and the response from Habs fans was basically "we'd take just getting out of his contract" for what he'd cost, so I think that could actually add another wrinkle in the situation. I'd be a bit hesitant to have to trade a 1st and a prospect for Petry to replace Letang, but to get Petry for free or even trade Zucker for him (which a Habs fan said they'd do) would definitely change up the calculus.

Here were the comments I got:

Yes. This has been my point with Burns and Petry all summer long. You can potentially dump cap and get your “# 1 D” for less term than Letang.

So you may be saving only 1 to 1.75 million but if you add in getting out of Zucker or Pettersson’s deal that gives you a good 5 million + to add on other things with.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Comparing Jack Johnson and one of the best analytical defensemen of the last few years in Petry is a stretch.

Petry is a legitimate top pairing D and has been for nearly a decade.

Petry was an absolute shitshow for Montreal this season. Whether that was due to injury, the covid situation and his family, or just Montreal itself being bad, who knows. But based on what I saw this year, I'd be very, very hesitant to replace Letang with Petry.

 

[Gurglesons]

Petry was an absolute shitshow for Montreal this season. Whether that was due to injury, the covid situation and his family, or just Montreal itself being bad, who knows. But based on what I saw this year, I'd be very, very hesitant to replace Letang with Petry.

Meh. His underlying metrics were fine as @Peat pointed out and he was forced to carry around Chiarot.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Meh. His underlying metrics were fine as @Peat pointed out and he was forced to carry around Chiarot.

The same underlying metrics that people used to predict Seattle would finish 2nd in the Pacific? Those ones?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Petry was an absolute shitshow for Montreal this season. Whether that was due to injury, the covid situation and his family, or just Montreal itself being bad, who knows. But based on what I saw this year, I'd be very, very hesitant to replace Letang with Petry.

He was a shitshow under Ducharme and then was white hot under St. Louis to end the year.

He had 21 points in 29 games to end the year with St. Louis as the coach. Under Ducharme, he had 6 points in 38 games.

 

[Gurglesons]

The same underlying metrics that people used to predict Seattle would finish 2nd in the Pacific? Those ones?

I guess. I mean, you’re using half a season to judge a player so not really sure what that has to do with anything. Petry has been a top pairing D for years.

It’s not like Letang was some defensive star for us this playoffs.

Also, Seattle sucked because they got literally the worst goaltending in the league.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I am loathe to move on from Letang but Petry isn't nearly as bad as some of the numbers last year suggest (I think he's closer to the player that we saw under St. Louis) and if they can get rid of a problematic contract in the process... well...

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think the biggest concern I'd have with replacing Letang with Petry is how you'd replace Letang's special teams impact, because Letang's analytics on both the PP and PK are sparkling while Petry stinks on both the PP and PK. But on the flip side, I think you can very easily make a case that Malkin is the guy that stirs the drink on the Penguins powerplay to begin with, so losing Letang in that role wouldn't be that big of a deal.

For what Letang is at 5v5 at this point, I think you can basically replace him with Petry. I think Letang's PK impact can be replaced easily as well. The biggest thing I think you need is a PPQB for the top unit to replace Letang.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I guess. I mean, you’re using half a season to judge a player so not really sure what that has to do with anything. Petry has been a top pairing D for years.

It’s not like Letang was some defensive star for us this playoffs.

Also, Seattle sucked because they got literally the worst goaltending in the league.

Petry's also 35 (or going to be) years old. We're not getting prime Petry. Non-star players can drop off out of nowhere at his age.

I'd rather not rest our hopes on defense on a low end #1D in his prime being the guy to log the most minutes for us if his play slips even a bit to that of more of a 2D.