Salary Cap: Penguins 2014-15 roster building discussion III (Contract/free agent chart in Post 1)

[Your Boy Troy]

Right, I'm just saying it wouldn't be cost prohibitive to get both.

I wouldn't go for Thornton though, find someone younger and hungrier.

Agreed. Shawn Thornton is past his prime at both being an effective fourth-liner and being an enforcer. I don't think there are too many options for an enforcer in the UFA market. PL3 might get his chance to show that he's ready for the big league. The organization really liked him, and even Brooks Orpik stated that he almost made the team out of training camp. PL3 has improved his game ever since he left Albany.

 

[Fire Shero*]

The new GM will also have Crosby and Malkin to build around. Poor fellow.

He can also decide immediately about MAF's future. He can put his mark on the team by getting rid of Fleury and bringing in new goalie.

Just think of the roster when Shero took over compared to the oldest team in the league the new guy gets.

I just feel bad for him. Yes, he has 71 and 87, but very little else.

 

[IcedCapp]

Agreed. Shawn Thornton is past his prime at both being an effective fourth-liner and being an enforcer. I don't think there are too many options for an enforcer in the UFA market. PL3 might get his chance to show that he's ready for the big league. The organization really liked him, and even Brooks Orpik stated that he almost made the team out of training camp. PL3 has improved his game ever since he left Albany.

Apparently the Pens opening day roster was close to being 75-players large

 

[eXile59]

It's not about getting better necessarily, just getting more reliable and cheaper. Opening up more cap to improve roster elsewhere. If you can't expect Fleury to win you games in playoffs, why not save salary, go with cheaper option, and improve the offense since it needs to be improved?

Would Brian Elliott for example at the half the price of Fleury be a bad option?

Potentially I think Elliott could have similar production at half the price.

Fleury wasn't the problem this playoffs but he wasn't the solution either. I don't think he inspires confidence when his team sees him back there. With a better defense maybe he could have a bigger impact but that's a big maybe.

 

[WVP]

I really hope they pursue a guy like Evander Kane over an enforcer. We don't need someone fighting for Sid. We need someone who can take some pressure off Sid carrying the puck. And who will antagonize and go after the other team's better players.

1. Fleury and Neal for Evander Kane. We cut ties with MAF and Neal. Winnipeg gets Kane's production back in Neal and a goalie they can ride in the regular season.

2. Sign Ryan Miller. 3 years x 6M. Jarry can back him up in years 2/3 and take over in 2017-18.

3. Ryan Callahan. 5.75M/year. Play him with Crosby or Malkin, with Bennett as the last top 6 winger.

4. Brian Boyle. 2M/year x 3 years. FO's, great PK'er and size for the 4th line. Flanked by Megna and Gibbons, a line that can chip in and cycle the puck. Elite PK'ers all over this roster.

5. Give Scuderi away for a late rounder or a nobody prospect. Get a draft pick for Niskanen's rights and try to do the same for Orpik. Time for a youth movement on defense. Harrington vs Dumoulin vs Pouliot vs Samuelsson for the roster spot but all get NHL time.

6. Re-sign Sutter for 3.75M a year.

7. Archibald makes the team out of camp. Sutter gets surrounded by speed which suits his game better. Alternative is playing Gibbons or Megna on L3. I dropped the cap down to 70M so it's hard to say how much room there is here to sign a UFA L3 winger instead. Cheaper goalie signing would help there.

Evander Kane ($5.250m) - Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) - Beau Bennett ($0.900m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) - Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) - Ryan Callahan ($5.750m)
Josh Archibald ($0.700m) - Brandon Sutter ($3.750m) - Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m)
Jayson Megna ($0.874m) - Brian Boyle ($2.000m) - Brian Gibbons ($0.700m)
Craig Adams ($0.700m)

Olli Maatta ($0.894m) - Kris Letang ($7.250m)
Simon Despres ($0.900m) - Paul Martin ($5.000m)
Scott Harrington ($0.589m) - Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m)

Ryan Miller ($6.000m)
Jeff Zatkoff ($0.600m)
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CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $70,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,257,458; BONUSES: $307,500
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $1,742,542


Some big moves there but moving MAF and Neal in one swipe really changes things up. Replace Miller with someone cheaper if you'd like.

 

[Malkin112*]

Just think of the roster when Shero took over compared to the oldest team in the league the new guy gets.

I just feel bad for him. Yes, he has 71 and 87, but very little else.

http://mirtle.blogspot.ca/2013/10/2013-14-nhl-teams-by-height-weight-and.html

Take a look. Pens is one of the smallest and oldest teams in the league

 

[cheesedanish87]

Potentially I think Elliott could have similar production at half the price.

Fleury wasn't the problem this playoffs but he wasn't the solution either. I don't think he inspires confidence when his team sees him back there. With a better defense maybe he could have a bigger impact but that's a big maybe.

A goalie i would love to see the pens take a chance on is Justin Peters, he played well when he got a chance last year, you could probably sign him for 1.5-2.0 million.

 

[mpp9]

Waiting for the MTL/NYR game at 1. Trying to think of teams who would be interested in Neal. So basically anyone with a high end playmaking center that could use a natural sniper. Specifically WC teams b/c I doubt we move him within the EC.

Vancouver. Sedin twins could work nicely with Neal.

SJ. They have a D-man turned winger now turning back to D-man in Burns. A player best off at center in Pavelski. An aging Marleau. And even Hertl who is a natural center as well. I could see Neal slotting in well there as a pure sniper with a number of high end centers.

EDM. RNH. Lot of talent on the wing, but not alot of size. They'd also have varying levels of interest in Letang and Sutter I'd imagine. Maybe a package deal to shake up their forward group.

Kesler, Burns and Eberle would seemingly make the most sense for us.

 

[mpp9]

1. Fleury and Neal for Evander Kane. We cut ties with MAF and Neal. Winnipeg gets Kane's production back in Neal and a goalie they can ride in the regular season.

2. Sign Ryan Miller. 3 years x 6M. Jarry can back him up in years 2/3 and take over in 2017-18.

3. Ryan Callahan. 5.75M/year. Play him with Crosby or Malkin, with Bennett as the last top 6 winger.

4. Brian Boyle. 2M/year x 3 years. FO's, great PK'er and size for the 4th line. Flanked by Megna and Gibbons, a line that can chip in and cycle the puck. Elite PK'ers all over this roster.

5. Give Scuderi away for a late rounder or a nobody prospect. Get a draft pick for Niskanen's rights and try to do the same for Orpik. Time for a youth movement on defense. Harrington vs Dumoulin vs Pouliot vs Samuelsson for the roster spot but all get NHL time.

6. Re-sign Sutter for 3.75M a year.

7. Archibald makes the team out of camp. Sutter gets surrounded by speed which suits his game better. Alternative is playing Gibbons or Megna on L3. I dropped the cap down to 70M so it's hard to say how much room there is here to sign a UFA L3 winger instead. Cheaper goalie signing would help there.

Evander Kane ($5.250m) - Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) - Beau Bennett ($0.900m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) - Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) - Ryan Callahan ($5.750m)
Josh Archibald ($0.700m) - Brandon Sutter ($3.750m) - Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m)
Jayson Megna ($0.874m) - Brian Boyle ($2.000m) - Brian Gibbons ($0.700m)
Craig Adams ($0.700m)

Olli Maatta ($0.894m) - Kris Letang ($7.250m)
Simon Despres ($0.900m) - Paul Martin ($5.000m)
Scott Harrington ($0.589m) - Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m)

Ryan Miller ($6.000m)
Jeff Zatkoff ($0.600m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $70,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,257,458; BONUSES: $307,500
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $1,742,542


Some big moves there but moving MAF and Neal in one swipe really changes things up. Replace Miller with someone cheaper if you'd like.

I'd like to see them pursue someone in free agency rather than force us to trade all of our valuable assets to fill the holes we have. But I'd rather overpay Kule a little than give Callahan that kind of money.

And definitely agree that Kane to Pitt needs to happen. He fits what we're missing. And we have any number of players who'd upgrade their roster. Like you said, Neal can replace his 50 pts there. Sutter slots in nicely at center with his former coach. MAF would be a drastic upgrade for them in the regular season and help get them into the playoffs. And if we're looking to be bold, we have a few D-men that could help fill out their top 4.

I'd be happy with moving on from all our UFAs (minus Goc if Sutter is moved), signing Kule, trading for Kane and riding the youth movement from here on out.

 

[WVP]

I'd like to see them pursue someone in free agency rather than force us to trade all of our valuable assets to fill the holes we have. But I'd rather overpay Kule a little than give Callahan that kind of money.

And definitely agree that Kane to Pitt needs to happen. He fits what we're missing. And we have any number of players who'd upgrade their roster. Like you said, Neal can replace his 50 pts there. Sutter slots in nicely at center with his former coach. MAF would be drastic upgrade for them in the regular season and help get them into the playoffs. And if we're looking to be bold, we have a few D-men that could help fill out their top 4.

I like packaging Neal and MAF for Kane because 1. there's actually a chance WPG would have interest in Fleury for his regular season play and 2. we get an upgrade on Neal and a chance to upgrade Fleury.

Honestly though, who knows if Winnipeg has any interest there at all. We're kinda moving our junk out in many ways, even though they're talented players.

 

[cheesedanish87]

I think the Kings could be a good fit for Neal if they don't sign Gaborik, they got the centers, and they are a team that sometimes has trouble scoring goals, Neal being a sniper could help them score, Neal could also help the PP, kings were 27th in pp this year.

 

[mpp9]

I think the Kings could be a good fit for Neal if they don't sign Gaborik, they got the centers, and they are a team that sometimes has trouble scoring goals, Neal being a sniper could help them score, Neal could also help the PP, kings were 27th in pp this year.

Don't know what we'd get back though that'd make sense for both sides.

 

[sexyllama]

The new GM will also have Crosby and Malkin to build around. Poor fellow.

He can also decide immediately about MAF's future. He can put his mark on the team by getting rid of Fleury and bringing in new goalie.

Yeah, our Forward pipeline is a complete mess. (just like Nashville)

But, luckily 2 pretty good goalies are FA's. Get one of them and add a coach who encourages 2-way play and that is already a much better start than DB's **** system.

Now trade 2-3: Fleury, Letang, Kunitz and replace them with some hard, tough players and we are closer.

Yeah, wow, our Forwards prospects are

 

[mpp9]

I like packaging Neal and MAF for Kane because 1. there's actually a chance WPG would have interest in Fleury for his regular season play and 2. we get an upgrade on Neal and a chance to upgrade Fleury.

Honestly though, who knows if Winnipeg has any interest there at all. We're kinda moving our junk out in many ways, even though they're talented players.

That'd probably be the deal I'd most likely want to go down.

But I'd be willing to explore other bases for a deal. Maatta straight up. Sutter++. I just think we really need a guy with Kane's skillset here moving forward. Hopefully the new GM wants to make an impact deal early and is willing to look at our team aside from Sid and Geno as assets.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I don't see Callahan being a good fit in the top six, at all. I'm not even really that blown away by his perceived grit and defensive ability whenever I see him play. Certainly not his offensive aptitude. And for 5-6 million... that seems like a boondoggle.

Like the rest of it, for the most part, WVP. Defense is pretty green though. And I don't know how many more quality miles Miller has left on his tires.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Don't know what we'd get back though that'd make sense for both sides.

Tyler Toffoli would be a good start, hes a good young winger on a ELC, hes the type of player the pens need.

 

[WVP]

I don't see Callahan being a good fit in the top six, at all. I'm not even really that blown away by his perceived grit and defensive ability whenever I see him play. Certainly not his offensive aptitude. And for 5-6 million... that seems like a boondoggle.

Like the rest of it, for the most part, WVP. Defense is pretty green though. And I don't know how many more quality miles Miller has left on his tires.

Callahan is at least a 50 point guy in our top 6. I know what you mean though, he doesn't feel like a 5-6M dollar player. Still, we need to find guys that want to win playoff hockey games at all costs. He's certainly in that category.

 

[SuburbanRhythm]

I don't see Callahan being a good fit in the top six, at all. I'm not even really that blown away by his perceived grit and defensive ability whenever I see him play. Certainly not his offensive aptitude. And for 5-6 million... that seems like a boondoggle.

Like the rest of it, for the most part, WVP. Defense is pretty green though. And I don't know how many more quality miles Miller has left on his tires.

Callahan is at least a 50 point guy in our top 6. I know what you mean though, he doesn't feel like a 5-6M dollar player. Still, we need to find guys that want to win playoff hockey games at all costs. He's certainly in that category.

For me, as much as the $5-6m bothers me, the 5-6 year it will require bother me more. Much like Kunitz breaking down because of his style is a ticking timebomb, Callahan is much the same.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Callahan has 24 points in 63 career playoff games. He is going to cost too much for what he brings.

 

[SuburbanRhythm]

Is Vrbata pretty much a guarantee to stick in Phoenix?

 

[billybudd]

Agreed. Shawn Thornton is past his prime at both being an effective fourth-liner and being an enforcer. I don't think there are too many options for an enforcer in the UFA market. PL3 might get his chance to show that he's ready for the big league. The organization really liked him, and even Brooks Orpik stated that he almost made the team out of training camp. PL3 has improved his game ever since he left Albany.

If the Penguins are going to run with an actual enforcer, I'd much prefer a guy that can skate. I've said the name Jamie Devane before. I find his behavior reprehensible, but if we were going that route, I'd much prefer a guy like him to PL3 just because of skating. And since he's not on any big club, he could probably be gotten (unlike, for example, a Ryan Reaves).

 

[joeyjake5]

A lot of people on this board want to trade Neal. Look at his stats for the last 3 years

Games played 179

Goals 88
Points 178
+_ Plus 26

How many other Fs have had this production over the last 3 years and having a favorable contract.

Dirty player>> anyone taking a shot at Marchand is not a dirty player. Marchand is DIRTY player. Remember Thornton going after ORPs was never viewed by the media as dirty, cheap, or cowardice. He was just honoring the CODE. Whatever you want to call Thornton and marchand fine, but then Neal is a saint and a Lady BYNE candidate.

If you trade Neal you better get equal production back.

 

[Your Boy Troy]

If the Penguins are going to run with an actual enforcer, I'd much prefer a guy that can skate. I've said the name Jamie Devane before. I find him reprehensible, but if we were going that route, I'd much prefer a guy like him to PL3 just because of skating. And since he's not on any big club, he could probably be gotten (unlike, for example, a Ryan Reaves).

PL3's skating is decent. He looked like an NHL-caliber player when he played against the Capitals. I am interested to see an opinion from Zen Arcade or td_ice because they have more knowledge about WBS players than I do. Jamie Devane would be a solid pick-up. But, that's a Randy Carlyle type of player.

 

[Ogrezilla]

A lot of people on this board want to trade Neal. Look at his stats for the last 3 years

Games played 179

Goals 88
Points 178
+_ Plus 26

How many other Fs have had this production over the last 3 years and having a favorable contract.

Dirty player>> anyone taking a shot at Marchand is not a dirty player. Marchand is DIRTY player. Remember Thornton going after ORPs was never viewed by the media as dirty, cheap, or cowardice. He was just honoring the CODE. Whatever you want to call Thornton and marchand fine, but then Neal is a saint and a Lady BYNE candidate.

If you trade Neal you better get equal production back.

anyone who doesn't think what Thornton did to Orpik was incredibly dirty is an idiot.

 

[billybudd]

Question at this point is if Devane would be a Shanahan-type player, not a Carlyle player. Carlyle was retained "with strings."

Maybe I'm underestimating PL3's skating, but I was not impressed with it in Jersey or in his whopping 1 game here.