Peak Datsyuk vs. Peak Bure

[authentic]

Who was the better player?

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[Alexander the Gr8]

Love Datsyuk but Bure’s peak is insane. He had McDavid-like speed and scoring abilities at that point.

 

[Voight]

Bure in 1994 was something else, gotta go with him here.

 

[SotasicA]

Both overrated, but Bure. One dimensional scorer, but pretty good at what he did.

 

[BlueBaron]

Bure was more gifted offensively but Datsyuk was far more complete. Bure was a defensive liability who coasted. Datsyuk had a far wider range of skills at a very high level and is a proven winner.

Bure was more fun to watch but you would rather have Datsyuk on your team.

 

[Regal]

Datsyuk, but I'm quite high on him. His impact on goal differential over the years is incredible and he was a really efficient scorer as well. I noticed that Quanthockey has P/60 numbers going back to 97-98, and even back to his 2nd season, he was leading the Wings in P/60. All the underlying metrics since 07-08 point to him being incredible. He should be considered the 4th best player of the era over Kane.

Bure was such a good goalscorer and was probably hurt in point totals over the years by a lack of support, but I don't think his offensive impact was enough to make up for Datsyuk's overall game. He got a lot of minutes and free reign offensively. And while he could be solid defensively for a winger, he had periods where he didn't bring it as well.

 

[Brucelenok]

Datsyuk. None of Bure's seasons touch Pavel's back to back 97 points while winning Selkes

 

[Nick Hansen]

Datsyuk wasn't even the best defensive forward on his own team most years. Easily Bure.

 

[Brucelenok]

Bure was more gifted offensively but Datsyuk was far more complete. Bure was a defensive liability who coasted. Datsyuk had a far wider range of skills at a very high level and is a proven winner.

Bure was more fun to watch but you would rather have Datsyuk on your team.

Mmm even that debatable. Datsyuk highlights are insane. Probably the most unique player ever when it comes down to skill and things he pulled off.

 

[heretik27]

Rather have Datsyuk on my team at his peak, but Bure was better offensively.

 

[93LEAFS]

Datsyuk. You build your team around a Datsyuk, you buy tickets to see Bure.

 

[Gurglesons]

Bure.

 

[Gurglesons]

Datsyuk. You build your team around a Datsyuk, you buy tickets to see Bure.

Weird how he wasn’t a top dog for the Wings then.

 

[93LEAFS]

Weird how he wasn’t a top dog for the Wings then.

Datsyuk had the highest finish of any Red Wing in Hart voting since Fedorov won when he finished 3rd in 2007/08. I'd say during there run as the top team between 2005-2010 he was their most impactful player, but you can obviously also make a case for Lidstrom.

 

[authentic]

Bure was more gifted offensively but Datsyuk was far more complete. Bure was a defensive liability who coasted. Datsyuk had a far wider range of skills at a very high level and is a proven winner.

Bure was more fun to watch but you would rather have Datsyuk on your team.

Lol...such an utterly false statement.

 

[Gurglesons]

Datsyuk had the highest finish of any Red Wing in Hart voting since Fedorov won when he finished 3rd in 2007/08. I'd say during there run as the top team between 2005-2010 he was their most impactful player, but you can obviously also make a case for Lidstrom.

Zetterberg was the guy imo.

 

[authentic]

Datsyuk, but I'm quite high on him. His impact on goal differential over the years is incredible and he was a really efficient scorer as well. I noticed that Quanthockey has P/60 numbers going back to 97-98, and even back to his 2nd season, he was leading the Wings in P/60. All the underlying metrics since 07-08 point to him being incredible. He should be considered the 4th best player of the era over Kane.

Bure was such a good goalscorer and was probably hurt in point totals over the years by a lack of support, but I don't think his offensive impact was enough to make up for Datsyuk's overall game. He got a lot of minutes and free reign offensively. And while he could be solid defensively for a winger, he had periods where he didn't bring it as well.

His minutes weren't any higher than the other star players at the time, I started a thread about it on the HOH board and the numbers on NHL.com are correct. The most he played in a season was 23:33 per game, and there were other players in the top 10 who played more than him. That said though Datsyuk did what he did at his peak in under 20 minutes with minimal powerplay time and the best two-way game in the world, although of course he had incredible support all around.

 

[authentic]

Datsyuk wasn't even the best defensive forward on his own team most years. Easily Bure.

Not really true. He had by far the best possession metrics in the game over a large number of years.

 

[authentic]

Both overrated, but Bure. One dimensional scorer, but pretty good at what he did.

As opposed to Datsyuk who was not pretty good at what he did? Not saying Bure is wrong but perhaps there is some bias here lol

 

[amnesiac]

Bure in 1994 was something else, gotta go with him here.

99-00 was quite better

Datsyuk. None of Bure's seasons touch Pavel's back to back 97 points while winning Selkes

unless its Bure's back to back 99-01 seasons while winning 2 Richards on a pretty poor Panthers team, no less.

Datsyuk has a clear advantage if you include playoffs, but Bure only played 1 round during his peak (4P/4GP)... All in all, its very close.

Bure
99-00 2nd in scoring
00-01 7th

Datsyuk
07-08 4th in scoring
08-09 4th

and very coincidentally, both Bure and Datsyuk finished 3rd and 9th respectively in Hart voting during their 2 year peaks

That all said, theyre are both amazing peaks from 2 amazing players.

 

[authentic]

99-00 was quite better



unless its Bure's back to back 99-01 seasons while winning 2 Richards a pretty poor Panthers team, no less.

Datsyuk has a clear advantage if you include playoffs, but Bure only played 1 round during his peak. ... All in all, its very close.

Bure
99-00 2nd in scoring
00-01 7th

Datsyuk
07-08 4th in scoring
08-09 4th
and very coincidentally, both Bure and Datsyuk finished 3rd and 9th respectively in Hart voting during their said 2 year peaks

That all said, theyre are both amazing peaks from 2 amazing players.

Agreed. Pretty much why I made the poll.

 

[BlueBaron]

Lol...such an utterly false statement.

Then I guess you aren't aware he did not back check and rarely crossed his own blueline. Sadly that is a reality. He camped waiting for a break out pass.

I don't think you know what false means.

 

[Kaner9]

Both were highlight reals but I gotta go with the guy who plays D.

 

[Dingo]

cant pick, but id love to see them as linemates.

 

[Regal]

His minutes weren't any higher than the other star players at the time, I started a thread about it on the HOH board and the numbers on NHL.com are correct. The most he played in a season was 23:33 per game, and there were other players in the top 10 who played more than him. That said though Datsyuk did what he did at his peak in under 20 minutes with minimal powerplay time and the best two-way game in the world, although of course he had incredible support all around.

There's certainly some weird stuff going on with Bure's ice time numbers. According to Hockey-Reference, Bure averaged 24:23 and a whopping 26:52 in his two 50+ goal seasons in Florida, and 25:01 in his split season between Florida and New York. And I almost certain this isn't a typo after the fact because and it was widely discussed that he was playing defensemen-type minutes in his 2nd big season in Florida at the time and I specifically remember the 26 minute mark being mentioned. I could probably find an old players guide that would mention it from the time as well. However, the game logs that both Hockey-Reference and NHL show add up to the numbers on the NHL website.

It's possible there was an error in calculation at the time, and that's what Hockey-Reference initially published, and then the game logs came after and it was never corrected, but the NHL has since corrected on their site. I do wonder if there's an error in the numbers though. Bure's splits throughout the season are very weird. In '01, he played over 25 minutes 38 times, including 3 games over 29 minutes, yet somehow also played 21 games under 20 minutes, including 8 games under 16 minutes. It just doesn't seem to make sense. If you look at Jagr that same season for instance, he only played 9 games under 20 minutes and in general his numbers were more consistent.

So I looked at the game log for Bure's lowest ice time. January 12th, 2001 against the Hurricanes, Bure scores the game-tying goal with 23 second left in a game that he didn't receive any penalty minutes, the Panthers were rarely on the PK, and were either tied or behind for most of the game. Yet, Bure only received 15:08 of ice time, 13th on the team. So I added up at the ice time listed and divided by 5, and got 59:38 accounted for. The game went into overtime and ended in a tie. Their goalie Trevor Kidd played 64:55. This seems to suggest there's unaccounted for ice time.

Looking more, ESPN has the same ice time numbers for Bure, so there's clearly a source that they are coming from. The box scores for this game are also on ESPN and Bure is listed as playing 30:16 instead, and lists 18 games where he actually played over 30 minutes including a 40 minute game against San Jose, and all of them coincide with the low TOI games listed on NHL.