Peak and Prime: Malkin vs Draisaitl

[thadd]

I don't really know who to go for here and I'm going to wear this fan.

I love what draisatl does in the playoffs but I remember Malkin being a freaking monster year after year in the playoffs.

I feel draisatl has out done Malkin in the regular season but the playoffs matter a lot more to me.

Draisatl doesn't seem to take as many stupid penalties this year. If that continues into the playoffs, it's going to look even better and maybe I'll take Malkin at number two.

 

[Video Nasty]

So much emphasis is being placed on Draisaitl's defensive game this year. Is this because he was a minus 7 in his Art Ross year and is now proving he can play responsible defense?

No. People are just watching the games and noting what they see. He also happens to be leading the league in goals, is second in points, and is in three-way tie for second PPG, while helping the Oilers not fall apart during two separate three games absences by McDavid.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

These guys are both beauties

Here are Leon’s stats when McDavid doesn’t play the last few years

2018-2019: 4 games 6 pts
2019-2020: 7 games 12 pts
2021-2022: 1 game 1 pt
2023-2024: 6 games 16 pts
2024-2025: 5 games 10 pts

So, small sample size, basically.

 

[Regal]

So much emphasis is being placed on Draisaitl's defensive game this year. Is this because he was a minus 7 in his Art Ross year and is now proving he can play responsible defense?

I mean why wouldn’t it be brought up? His defensive numbers this year have been significantly better than in the past.

 

[PuckG]

So, small sample size, basically.

It’s a pretty big sample size when you consider the opposing “Drai is a product of McDavid” camp has a 0 game sample size to justify that Drai plays bad when McDavid is not around.

It means they are actively ignoring the sample size they do have to justify their own boneheaded thought process.

 

[Regal]

It’s a pretty big sample size when you consider the opposing “Drai is a product of McDavid” camp has a 0 game sample size to justify that Drai plays bad when McDavid is not around.

It means they are actively ignoring the sample size they do have to justify their own boneheaded thought process.

That opinion is generally based on the minutes away from McDavid, where historically his production and possession metrics go down considerably, moreso than McDavid’s numbers without, and more than most stars without their best linemates (Matthews without Marner, MacKinnon without Rantanen, etc). I do think it’s a pretty unique situation though where his linemates away from McDavid have been particularly poor, and his chemistry with McDavid is so good that it makes more sense to load them up when the team needs a goal late than to keep them separated, so he doesn’t play that many “push for offense” minutes away from McDavid that he might otherwise do if he had better regular linemates.

 

[PuckG]

That opinion is generally based on the minutes away from McDavid, where historically his production and possession metrics go down considerably, moreso than McDavid’s numbers without, and more than most stars without their best linemates (Matthews without Marner, MacKinnon without Rantanen, etc). I do think it’s a pretty unique situation though where his linemates away from McDavid have been particularly poor, and his chemistry with McDavid is so good that it makes more sense to load them up when the team needs a goal late than to keep them separated, so he doesn’t play that many “push for offense” minutes away from McDavid that he might otherwise do if he had better regular linemates.

I’m not sure why anyone would expect numbers to get better when not playing with the best player in the world versus with.

At the end of the day, Draisaitl still produces the same as other superstars in the absence of McDavid and with poor linemates as you mentioned.

 

[daver]

I mean why wouldn’t it be brought up? His defensive numbers this year have been significantly better than in the past.

I should have quoted the poster who seems to ignore any defensive differences when comparing Malkin's 11/12 season to Drai's 19/20 season.

 

[daver]

I’m not sure why anyone would expect numbers to get better when not playing with the best player in the world versus with.

At the end of the day, Draisaitl still produces the same as other superstars in the absence of McDavid.

Except he hasn't in a much larger sample of games when he has been away from McDavid. Malkin is more proven to produce with similarly less talented linemates like Drai has played with.

 

[PuckG]

Except he hasn't in a much larger sample of games when he has been away from McDavid. Malkin is more proven to produce with similarly less talented linemates like Drai has played with.

Show your work.

I never spoke on behalf of Malkin, but Draisaitl is very clearly producing at a superstar level with or without McDavid.

 

[daver]

Show your work.

I never spoke on behalf of Malkin, but Draisaitl is very clearly producing at a superstar level with or without McDavid.

It's already been covered in this thread. Regardless, peak Malkin is above peak Draisaitl. That's pretty much the consensus in this thread.

 

[PuckG]

It's already been covered in this thread. Regardless, peak Malkin is above peak Draisaitl. That's pretty much the consensus in this thread.

In the absence of McDavid:

2018-2019: 4 games 6 pts
2019-2020: 7 games 12 pts
2021-2022: 1 game 1 pt
2023-2024: 6 games 16 pts
2024-2025: 5 games 10 pts

 

[Miro4Norris]

McDavid and Draisaitl playing together inflate each other's point totals too much for being compared directly to other players. Malkin peak and prime but Draisaitl can close the gap with primes with playoff success and more hardware. But he could win Art Ross/Hart/Smythe this year already if everything goes perfect

 

[Regal]

I’m not sure why anyone would expect numbers to get better when not playing with the best player in the world versus with.

At the end of the day, Draisaitl still produces the same as other superstars in the absence of McDavid and with poor linemates as you mentioned.

I didn’t say we should expect them to get better. We would expect them to get worse but still remain elite. This is the case with McDavid, Matthews, MacKinnon, etc. Draisaitl’s have historically dropped by a greater margin and to below elite levels away from McDavid. That’s why people have brought it up in the past. Like I said though, I think with Draisaitl it’s mostly circumstance. The eye test says he’s still one of the best regardless.

 

[daver]

I didn’t say we should expect them to get better. We would expect them to get worse but still remain elite. This is the case with McDavid, Matthews, MacKinnon, etc. Draisaitl’s have historically dropped by a greater margin and to below elite levels away from McDavid. That’s why people have brought it up in the past. Like I said though, I think with Draisaitl it’s mostly circumstance. The eye test says he’s still one of the best regardless.

And his best, with or without McDavid, still isn't as good as Malkin's best, some of which was with arguably worse linemates than Draisaitl has ever had.

 

[Regal]

And his best, with or without McDavid, still isn't as good as Malkin's best, some of which was with arguably worse linemates than Draisaitl has ever had.

I agree, but just explain what people are referencing when they talk about his play away from McDavid outside of just the small sample of games McDavid has missed