Peak and Prime: Malkin vs Draisaitl

[daver]

Best seasons:

1. Malkin 11-12
2. Malkin 08-09 / Draisaitl 19-20
4. Malkin 07-08
5. Draisaitl 22-23


Best playoff runs:

1. Malkin '09
2. Draisaitl '22
3. Malkin '08
4. Draisaitl '24
5. Malkin '17


As most have said, Malkin hit a level higher than Draisaitl has ever hit in both the playoffs and the regular season; a level that is only clearly surpassed by the members of the Big Four.

For some, it is reasonable to place prime Malkin always ahead of prime Draisaitl even if Draisaitl accumulates clearly more Top 5 point finishes. Malkin was simply the better player.

 

[BertMcDrai]

Malkin was the best player in the league by a wide margin in a season Crosby played 22 games (11-12). He also won the art ross and conn smythe with Talbot and Fedotenko as his wings (08-09). Malkin definitely takes peak, but Drai has a good case for prime with his consistency since 2018-19. Though it does seem like he depends on Mcdavid more than Malkin did on Crosby.

He was on the ice for 87 goals with Crosby this year and 56 without Crosby...it's still a HFmyth that he has done it all alone. (08/09)

 

[BertMcDrai]

Best seasons:

1. Malkin 11-12
2. Malkin 08-09 / Draisaitl 19-20
4. Malkin 07-08
5. Draisaitl 22-23


Best playoff runs:

1. Malkin '09
2. Draisaitl '22
3. Malkin '08
4. Draisaitl '24
5. Malkin '17


As most have said, Malkin hit a level higher than Draisaitl has ever hit in both the playoffs and the regular season; a level that is only clearly surpassed by the members of the Big Four.

For some, it is reasonable to place prime Malkin always ahead of prime Draisaitl even if Draisaitl accumulates clearly more Top 5 point finishes. Malkin was simply the better player.

I don't think Malkin has had a better playoff run than Drai in `22...he was 2.0ppg while Malkin was 1.5ppg...he had only 4 lesser points in 8 lesser games if you compare both `22 to `09.
That's 0.5 PPG difference...that's huge...you can maximal say it's a wash but not vice versa.

 

[daver]

I don't think Malkin has had a better playoff run than Drai in `22...he was 2.0ppg while Malkin was 1.5ppg...he had only 4 lesser points in 8 lesser games if you compare both `22 to `09.
That's 0.5 PPG difference...that's huge...you can maximal say it's a wash but not vice versa.

Different eras (Malkin played in a lower scoring era).

Different linemates (did not play with a GOAT on his line). Draisaitl was PLUS 15 with McDavid at ES and MINUS 8 without.

Different amount of games played and different amount of team success (the Oilers runned and gunned to 8 wins vs. 16 for the Pens with a much more defensive-minded approach).

Malkin was at a 1.75 PPG thru 16 games if one wants to be fair about it.

 

[BertMcDrai]

Different eras (Malkin played in a lower scoring era).

Different linemates (did not play with a GOAT on his line). Draisaitl was PLUS 15 with McDavid at ES and MINUS 8 without.

Different amount of games played and different amount of team success (the Oilers runned and gunned to 8 wins vs. 16 for the Pens with a much more defensive-minded approach).

Malkin was at a 1.75 PPG thru 16 games if one wants to be fair about it.

Malkin was also a minus player without Crosby in the playoffs...while Crosby was a plus without him...still waiting for some arguments on your take?

And keep in mind Draisaitl played with an high ankle sprain...still can't believe how he could play with it.

 

[Coffee]

Yawn. Even Nathaniel can sometimes give credit where it is due.

Yawn? Seriously ?

How do you not burst out laughing after reading something like that.

 

[Corto]

Prime you can argue, but there's zero argument for peak. Malkin's 2011-12 is closer to Mcdavid's 2022-23 in how dominant it was relative to the league than anything Draisaitl has done.

Why?
Malkin had 109 pts in 73 GP and the 2nd placed guy had 97 pts.
Draiseitl had 110 pts in 71 GP and the 2nd placed guy had 97 pts.

I can't say I remember the seasons game for game, and I'll take your argument that Malkin's season was more impressive, but to say it's closer to McDavid's 22-23 season (153 pts) that to Draisaitl's season... Doesn't make sense IMO.
And I'm being very polite here, "doesn't make sense".

"No, no, Malkin's 109 pt in 73 GP seasons is nothing like Draisaitl's 110 pts in 71 GP. It's like McDavid's 153 pts season, you see."

IMO, Malkin's legacy will always be the playoff runs. He was, IMO, the best player on the planet in basically every postseason where the Pens had success in.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Malkins 3 -100 point seasons and a grand total of 1 - 50 goal season is so much greater than the about to be 6-100 point seasons and about to get his 4th 50 + goal season Draisaitl.

Hoe many players even have 4 + 50 goal seasons in hockey history ?

The hate for anyone wearing the Oiler jersey on HF is sublime. Feels soo good.

Keep hatin.

It has nothing to do with the Oilers jersey, they've won nothing in 35 years.

They've been better about it since Knoblauch but most of their careers McDrai cheated for offense, constantly flying their zone early. It seemed like they cared more about their stats than winning. Just a style not conducive to winning. And not surprisingly, 0 cups ten years in.

If they really are two goats like you think, no cups is unfathomable after ten years. Oilers management must be the most incompetent group in the league.

 

[daver]

Why?
Malkin had 109 pts in 73 GP and the 2nd placed guy had 97 pts.
Draiseitl had 110 pts in 71 GP and the 2nd placed guy had 97 pts.

I can't say I remember the seasons game for game, and I'll take your argument that Malkin's season was more impressive, but to say it's closer to McDavid's 22-23 season (153 pts) that to Draisaitl's season... Doesn't make sense IMO.
And I'm being very polite here, "doesn't make sense".

"No, no, Malkin's 109 pt in 73 GP seasons is nothing like Draisaitl's 110 pts in 71 GP. It's like McDavid's 153 pts season, you see."

To not consider how many games it took to score those respective 97 points, and I'm being very polite here, "doesn't make sense".

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Why?
Malkin had 109 pts in 73 GP and the 2nd placed guy had 97 pts.
Draiseitl had 110 pts in 71 GP and the 2nd placed guy had 97 pts.

I can't say I remember the seasons game for game, and I'll take your argument that Malkin's season was more impressive, but to say it's closer to McDavid's 22-23 season (153 pts) that to Draisaitl's season... Doesn't make sense IMO.
And I'm being very polite here, "doesn't make sense".

"No, no, Malkin's 109 pt in 73 GP seasons is nothing like Draisaitl's 110 pts in 71 GP. It's like McDavid's 153 pts season, you see."

IMO, Malkin's legacy will always be the playoff runs. He was, IMO, the best player on the planet in basically every postseason where the Pens had success in.

Comparing to the second place guy doesn't give you an accurate picture of how he dominated relative to the league. Could be a group of two or three that dominated that year. Comparing to the 10th place finisher, or 20th place, or league average gives a much better idea of how dominant they were. It's not even close between those two seasons.

 

[daver]

Malkin was also a minus player without Crosby in the playoffs...while Crosby was a plus without him...still waiting for some arguments on your take?

Source?

Malkin had 12 point shares (4 at ES) with Crosby out of 36.

Draisaitl had 22 points shares (15 at ES) with McDavid out of 32.

And keep in mind Draisaitl played with an high ankle sprain...still can't believe how he could play with it.

Stop the presses! NHL player plays through injury in the playoffs!

Through 6 games before getting injured he had 8 points and was a minus 3. Then he gets put on with McDavid the rest of they way.

Not a lot of evidence that he could have done as well as he did if he didn't get injured and played on his own line.

 

[Video Nasty]

Comparing to the second place guy doesn't give you an accurate picture of how he dominated relative to the league. Could be a group of two or three that dominated that year. Comparing to the 10th place finisher, or 20th place, or league average gives a much better idea of how dominant they were. It's not even close between those two seasons.

Check your numbers again. Draisaitl finished higher than 10th, 20th, 30th, 40th, 50th, 60th, and so on than Malkin did, so yeah, they’re actually close at worst.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Check your numbers again. Draisaitl finished higher than 10th, 20th, 30th, 40th, 50th, 60th, and so on than Malkin did, so yeah, they’re actually close at worst.

I looked for one minute and saw that you're wrong.

In 11-12 Malkin had 1.45 ppg compared to 1.00 for 10th, 45% higher

19-20 Draisaitl had 1.55 ppg compared to 1.25 for 10th, 24% higher

Two different levels of dominance

 

[Video Nasty]

I looked for one minute and saw that you're wrong.

In 11-12 Malkin had 1.45 ppg compared to 1.00 for 10th, 45% higher

19-20 Draisaitl had 1.55 ppg compared to 1.25 for 10th, 24% higher

Two different levels of dominance

I looked at points actually scored.

 

[authentic]

Different eras (Malkin played in a lower scoring era).

Different linemates (did not play with a GOAT on his line). Draisaitl was PLUS 15 with McDavid at ES and MINUS 8 without.

Different amount of games played and different amount of team success (the Oilers runned and gunned to 8 wins vs. 16 for the Pens with a much more defensive-minded approach).

Malkin was at a 1.75 PPG thru 16 games if one wants to be fair about it.

Wait so you view this run as better than any of McDavid’s, like 2022 and 2024?

 

[Crow]

I looked at points actually scored.

anti Pittsburgh bias confirmed

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

I looked at points actually scored.

Fair, I guess it depends on how you look at it. The other part would be Draisaitl was stapled to Mcdavid while Crosby was out for the year. Malkin pretty clearly was the far more dominant player at his peak.

 

[Video Nasty]

Fair, I guess it depends on how you look at it. The other part would be Draisaitl was stapled to Mcdavid while Crosby was out for the year. Malkin pretty clearly was the far more dominant player at his peak.

For now I voted Malkin for peak, Draisaitl for prime. I’m just commenting on you saying the two seasons weren’t even close.

 

[McFlash97]

The sec Leon gets his cup, this comparison is over.

 

[authentic]

Wait so you view this run as better than any of McDavid’s, like 2022 and 2024?

lol I just realized you literally never respond to me

 

[Acallabeth]

Malkins 3 -100 point seasons and a grand total of 1 - 50 goal season is so much greater than the about to be 6-100 point seasons and about to get his 4th 50 + goal season Draisaitl.

You must also think Jari Kurri is better than Gordie Howe.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Different eras (Malkin played in a lower scoring era).

Different linemates (did not play with a GOAT on his line). Draisaitl was PLUS 15 with McDavid at ES and MINUS 8 without.

Different amount of games played and different amount of team success (the Oilers runned and gunned to 8 wins vs. 16 for the Pens with a much more defensive-minded approach).

Malkin was at a 1.75 PPG thru 16 games if one wants to be fair about it.

The average number of goals for Oilers games in that playoff was 7.75. Which is peak 80s level. Just not comparable scoring environments.

 

[authentic]

The average number of goals for Oilers games in that playoff was 7.75. Which is peak 80s level. Just not comparable scoring environments.

Actually though? That’s actually insane

 

[Corto]

Fair, I guess it depends on how you look at it. The other part would be Draisaitl was stapled to Mcdavid while Crosby was out for the year. Malkin pretty clearly was the far more dominant player at his peak.

Yeah, I can't agree with "pretty clearly".
McDavid missed a quarter of a season when Draisatil won his Art Ross.

We can debate whether you think Malkin's season was more impressive than Draisaitl's (I don't, I think his 08-09 playoff run is his peak and his best work), but saying "it's cleary much more impressive than what Draisaitl did" and then topping it off by comparing it to McDavid's 153 points season is hilarious.

I mean, Jagr's 123 pts season in New York beats both tbh. In fact, other than McDavid, Jagr's first season in New York is IMO the most impressive season post the 04-05 lockout.
Leading that Ranger team to the playoffs, losing out on the Art Ross and Richard by a hair, on a team everyone saw as a lottery team... But something tells me you'll say Malkin was better than that too.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Yeah, I can't agree with "pretty clearly".
McDavid missed a quarter of a season when Draisatil won his Art Ross.

We can debate whether you think Malkin's season was more impressive than Draisaitl's (I don't, I think his 08-09 playoff run is his peak and his best work), but saying "it's cleary much more impressive than what Draisaitl did" and then topping it off by comparing it to McDavid's 153 points season is hilarious.

I mean, Jagr's 123 pts season in New York beats both tbh. In fact, other than McDavid, Jagr's first season in New York is IMO the most impressive season post the 04-05 lockout.
Leading that Ranger team to the playoffs, losing out on the Art Ross and Richard by a hair, on a team everyone saw as a lottery team... But something tells me you'll say Malkin was better than that too.

Of course Malkin's season was better, he was literally the only 100 point player in the league. Draisaitl's was better also quite easily. 05-06 was a very high scoring year, and Jagr didn't even win the art ross. There were 7 100 point scorers, and when Eric Staal is hitting 100, 123 isn't that impressive.

In their careers 98-99 Jagr has the best season of them all, truly dominant. But 05-06 is not even close to the best seasons post lockout.