Zine
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- Feb 28, 2002
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Malkin has more than just Cups over Draisaitl.
He has a Conn Smythe, 2 more 1st-team selections than Drai, and an extra Art Ross.
Draisaitl has some catching up to do.
Peak and Prime: Malkin vs Draisaitl
- Thread starter slapKing
- Start date
Malkin has more than just Cups over Draisaitl.
He has a Conn Smythe, 2 more 1st-team selections than Drai, and an extra Art Ross.
Draisaitl has some catching up to do.
Dipsy Doodle
Rent A Barn
- May 28, 2006
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If the player with the 2nd highest career points per game of his era was living off one playoff run and one regular season, what does that say about every other player but Crosby from that period?
League wide points per game from 12-13 to 17-18
Malkin was still a top 5 offensive talent after his big 11-12 season, he was just missing games and the league was low scoring.
Here’s the points per game leaders from 19-20 to today (I used 6 seasons because that’s what Malkin’s covered).
Draisaitl is scoring 13% higher than Panarin while Malkin is 13% higher than Stamkos and Getzlaf. Draisaitl is still better here, as he has bigger leads going down the scoring leaders, but this is also all of his best seasons except 1, while his period misses Malkin’s top 3 seasons. The biggest factor in Draisaitl’s favour is that he’s been in the lineup.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
I think people overrate Malkin's prime, he did have a few terrific seasons but also had some duds spread out throughout there. His 2010-2011 and 2012-2013 really stick out as that.
I think Malkin's level of dominance in 2011-2012 has exceeded Draisaitl's level of dominance in any season yet, relative to his peers. But Malkin was extremely regularly not that in his prime. Malkin tended to alternate seasons of looking dominant followed by looking underwhelming for his standards.
I think Malkin's level of dominance in 2011-2012 has exceeded Draisaitl's level of dominance in any season yet, relative to his peers. But Malkin was extremely regularly not that in his prime. Malkin tended to alternate seasons of looking dominant followed by looking underwhelming for his standards.
Luigi Lemieux
Registered User
His 11-12 season has an argument.
1.45 points per game when #10 in the league Kessel had 1.00
Last year #10 in the league was JT Miller at 1.27. That kind of dominance would translate to 151 points for Malkin last year.
Not sure if any of Crosby's or Ovechkin's seasons were that dominant. Either way all three were pretty close at their peak.
Crosby had 1.56 to 1.08 in 12/13 and 1.61 to 1.07 in 10/11.
Yes, all close at their peak but the "peak Malkin was the best of three" narrative has not been proven.
Regardless, clearly above peak Draisaitl.
Luigi Lemieux
Registered User
It goes back to injuries again, he just couldn't stay healthy. 09-10 and 10-11 he had the nagging shoulder and elbow issues, then of course the torn ACL. 12-13 he got injured in the KHL right before the season started back up with a back injury. He was tearing apart the Russian league that year too. Malkin's second torn ACL in 2021 basically spelled the end for him as an elite player.
With the devastating injuries both him and Crosby had it's a small miracle the stars aligned enough times that they won 3 cups.
It’s tough to gauge just how good is Draisaitl really? Obviously one of the best, but is he an Esposito case who obviously benefitted from Orr, I especially am not sure if I’m able to take his playoff stats at face value because then he would be better than Malkin even which I do not personally believe is the case. He’s certainly not far off though, he’s an incredibly dominant player in his own right.
I think this often gets ignored too. It’s not like he had his great 11-12 season and then just sucked the next year. He was still showing that he was the best/second best player in the world during the lockout, but gets no credit because it was the KHL and then was playing injured once the league started up again.
Hockey Outsider
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I think this is the best 41 game stretch for Malkin (the final 39 games of 2012, and first 2 games of 2013):
It's a half season worth of games, but he was 30% ahead of peak Stamkos in PPG and 55% ahead of 10th place. (More or less matching Crosby's 41 games in 2011).
That’s more or less what I figured the results would be. I was thinking exclusively in one single season but it’s only including 2 games of another one so it doesn’t change much and matches what I witnessed on the ice, Malkin at his best was as good as Crosby even in short stretches.
Hockey Outsider
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Yeah, it doesn't change much. If we limit it to best 41 game stretch within a single season, Malkin would be 28% ahead of Stamkos (instead of 30%) and 50% ahead of 10th place (instead of 55%).
For context, in 2011, Crosby was 27% ahead of the runner-up (Daniel Sedin) and 50% ahead of 10th place.
gritdash60
Registered User
I Hate Blake Coleman
Bandwagon Burner
Regardless of what stats are being put up, there is a clear class of players who are considered the cream of the crop. Ovechkin, Malkin and Crosby were a clear cut above.
Today we have McDavid, Kucherov, MacKinnon in the same tier as Draisaitl. Maybe Kaprizov joins them if he can continue to dominate and win hardware. I'd say Drai has tougher competition honestly.
- Aug 12, 2008
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In the last 3 years there has been 28 100 point seasons. From 2007-08 to 2009-10 there were 9 100 point seasons with only 2 not being Malkin, Crosby, Ovi. Its cherrypicking a bit but probably their prime. Just saying scoring has gone through the roof with much weaker defense and goaltending. Imo Drai Kuch Mcd and Mack are in a group alone. Then you have 5 or 6 guys also scoring over 100 regularly. Different league.
IIRC Ovechkin was even further ahead after 52 games in 2009-10, on a per game basis atleast.
JadedRandom
Registered User
Draisaitl can do it all offensively; beat a defender 1-on-1 with skill/reach/speed/strength, exploit gaps in coverage with positioning and/or one-touch plays, passes extremely well, shields the puck extremely well, is an elite shooter, owns A++ Hockey IQ and creativity. Basically, Draisaitl's entire offensive toolkit is elite.
Then you also look at Draisaitl's off-puck offensive play, and suffice to say that it's also great. He can force movement in D-zone coverages through anticipation and body position, wins puck battles like it's nobody's business, and just dominates possession out there when in the offensive zone.
Simply put, Draisaitl's absolutely amazing and doesn't get near as much respect by other fanbases aside from the Oilers' as he should.
But his work ethic defensively, and overall defensive abilities do leave quite a lot to be desired. And that is an important criterion to base any evaluation of his play on considering that Draisaitl plays a lot of center ice duties for the Oilers.
When put into direct comparison with Malkin, those defensive woes of Draisaitl basically clinch the set, game, and match in Malkin's favor though Malkin himself was never much more than a bit above-average defensively.
Although I'd say that Draisaitl's offensive toolkit is even better/more complete than Malkin's was, that certainly hasn't translated to a peer-to-peer statistical dominance that would transcend Malkin's, quite the contrary.
Malkin's peak was unarguably better than Draisaitl's peak, and his prime boasts at least equivalent production offensively compared to his peers, all of which with a much better defensive impact than Draisaitl's.
The only way I could see Draisaitl ranking higher than Malkin on All-Time lists after their careers are done is if he both wins multiple Stanley Cups like Malkin did, but also shows greater longevity than Malkin offensively by contending for Art Rosses into his 30s, something that Malkin failed to do.
Then you also look at Draisaitl's off-puck offensive play, and suffice to say that it's also great. He can force movement in D-zone coverages through anticipation and body position, wins puck battles like it's nobody's business, and just dominates possession out there when in the offensive zone.
Simply put, Draisaitl's absolutely amazing and doesn't get near as much respect by other fanbases aside from the Oilers' as he should.
But his work ethic defensively, and overall defensive abilities do leave quite a lot to be desired. And that is an important criterion to base any evaluation of his play on considering that Draisaitl plays a lot of center ice duties for the Oilers.
When put into direct comparison with Malkin, those defensive woes of Draisaitl basically clinch the set, game, and match in Malkin's favor though Malkin himself was never much more than a bit above-average defensively.
Although I'd say that Draisaitl's offensive toolkit is even better/more complete than Malkin's was, that certainly hasn't translated to a peer-to-peer statistical dominance that would transcend Malkin's, quite the contrary.
Malkin's peak was unarguably better than Draisaitl's peak, and his prime boasts at least equivalent production offensively compared to his peers, all of which with a much better defensive impact than Draisaitl's.
The only way I could see Draisaitl ranking higher than Malkin on All-Time lists after their careers are done is if he both wins multiple Stanley Cups like Malkin did, but also shows greater longevity than Malkin offensively by contending for Art Rosses into his 30s, something that Malkin failed to do.
Acallabeth
Post approved by Ovechkin
I disagree. Malkin was 2nd in the NHL PPG over the first 3 McDavid seasons (and he played 60+ games in all of them, it's not like extrapolating Crosby's 20-game stretches). Missed games prevented him from being a stronger trophy contestant, but he was one of the best players in the world.
Nathaniel Skywalker
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- Oct 18, 2013
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On top of winning the hart n ross in dominant fashion with crosby missing 60 games in 11-12. Malkin also scored 44 points in the 28 games crosby missed due to his ankle injury in 07-08. 44 points in 28 games at that time is a whole other monster than it would be now. Until drai shows he is capable of being the best in the world without playing behind mcdavid. It will always be malkin
Crow
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he is one of the most overrated players on here. Doesn’t matter what the poll is, people will be bending over backward to vote for him. Currently half of all people voted that they think his injury ridden prime is better for some reason.
