PDSF Gm#4, KINGS v SHARKS ... force a game #5, win 6-3 !!!

[Omni Owl]

Fun game to watch live, there were more Sharks fans than I thought there'd be. Clifford was a beast and the refs ****ing SUCKED. Kings were way physical which made a big difference. Oh and Torres can suck it...

 

[etherialone]

The problem is probably with the coaching if what Tonellisghost is mentioning is true. They're backing off per coaches instructions. I find that is completely opposite of how the Kings should play.

DS says Bump and run. Bump the guy good but don't take yourself out of the play. Other coaches who have had some great success at the NHL and other levels believe that when you have a big bodied team that is capable of hitting hard enough to slow your opponent down you do so. If you have a small team you bump and run so that you can keep an up tempo style of play.

I see it as balance, you shouldn't be too committed to one style or the other but, our big players (most of our team) should be putting the body as much as they can to our opponents as it has a HUGE impact on 1, making them take time to see who is coming at them causing them to slow their game/O rush team down and 2 it wears them out.

You get pasted over and over and it has an accumulative effect on your ability to join the rush or make the perfect pass etc. Think of it as an MMA fight where the bigger guy's strategy is to simply lean his body weight against his opponent along the fence or in top position. Sure they are looking for their shot to attack but making their opponents bare their weight can be just as huge to the overall success of the fighter.

Our drop 1 O can work, it just isn't so far (save last night). When we used attack attack cycle we won the cup and we did it with a team that was largely new to each other. That should be considered too.

DS has a bunch of different views on the game and they are all insightful and can be great but they each have to work with the team as it exists. They can't be used as static ideas that fit every team and every situation.

Nobody is really saying that we should be fighting at the end and I would never advocate gooning it up like the Sharks were doing, I am saying that we had other options than JW and TT etc when the game was already out of reach and the Sharks were clearly out looking to make a dirty hit or cause a scrum.

We shouldn't be looking to initiate in that situation but putting guys out there who are no match for their opponents is just ignorant and dangerous.

That said moving on. Great win and here is to getting the next one in SJ.

 

[TonySCV]

The problem is probably with the coaching if what Tonellisghost is mentioning is true. They're backing off per coaches instructions. I find that is completely opposite of how the Kings should play.

I don't buy that for a second. Coaching didn't suddenly say "let's take how we play that got us to the playoffs and throw it out". That's just over-thinking. You don't have a defense that led the league in possession and goals against all season and then suddenly tell them to play a new style. Sorry. No.

Odd man rushes galore, terrible line changes galore, they all looked slow as hell... all that's getting better as the series wears on. I believe Sutter when he says a good chunk of the D was sick early on. Sutter said in a presser that he dressed 7 D for game 3 because he wasn't sure his D would even make it through the whole game. They had some sort of ailment that they (thankfully) appear to be getting over.

Who knows... Sutter probably took the team to Black Angus the night before the game and they all got food poisioning.

 

[TheSentinel]

DS says Bump and run. Bump the guy good but don't take yourself out of the play. Other coaches who have had some great success at the NHL and other levels believe that when you have a big bodied team that is capable of hitting hard enough to slow your opponent down you do so. If you have a small team you bump and run so that you can keep an up tempo style of play.

They are called drive-bys DS is obviously not from LA.

 

[damacles1156]

I don't buy that this coaching staff has asked players to back off .....That's Pejorative Slured.

Its more of TM daring Sutter to get in a track meet, the Sharks have played terrible team defense. That's because they are leaving the zone early and pushing the pace of ever single shift.

They are trying the Hawks playbook to a tee. TM and his staff have done their homework.

The Sharks don't care if these games end up 6-5 7-8 ETC, they think they can win four of those.

The last thing the Sharks want to do is play a possession game that end 1-0 2-1...

 

[etherialone]

Who said anything about asking them to "back off"? It is a game plan called bump and run or stick and move or hit but don't follow through. It is EXACTLY what the Habs are doing and should be doing too. They have a smallish (some downright tiny) team and that is how smaller fast teams should play. It is up tempo and helps a small team use its speed to keep its opponent on their heels.

It doesn't work with a big team like us. Last night was the first night of this series where we were as a team looking to finish most of our hits. It is why we won. Nobody would ever ask anyone to back down but bump and run has been said by DS (among other coaches) over and over as it is one type of strategy that he employs. Hopefully we don't go back to it as we have seen what happens when we do.

Nobody is saying that anyone would ever coach a team to back off but it is a fact that hit and move bump and run (don't finish your checks, however you want to say it) is a system and one that DS has talked about before.

 

[damacles1156]

Who said anything about asking them to "back off"? It is a game plan called bump and run or stick and move or hit but don't follow through. It is EXACTLY what the Habs are doing and should be doing too. They have a smallish (some downright tiny) team and that is how smaller fast teams should play. It is up tempo and helps a small team use its speed to keep its opponent on their heels.

It doesn't work with a big team like us. Last night was the first night of this series where we were as a team looking to finish most of our hits. It is why we won. Nobody would ever ask anyone to back down but bump and run has been said by DS (among other coaches) over and over as it is one type of strategy that he employs. Hopefully we don't go back to it as we have seen what happens when we do.

Nobody is saying that anyone would ever coach a team to back off but it is a fact that hit and move bump and run (don't finish your checks, however you want to say it) is a system and one that DS has talked about before.

I still don't buy that, Sutter has made a career of Demanding players finish their checks.

San Jose got hit more last night , cause at some point that high tempo pace is going to wear on your players.

The Kings could actually catch the Sharks last night, last night was the first time the Sharks actually had a little fatigue in their game(and it started from puck drop).

Also the Kings defense looked a little bit more healthy and quicker.

The Sharks are cheating all over the ice, and turning every shift into a track meet.

Kudos to TM for doing his homework(exploiting the Kings slow Defense)..

Also Kudos to Sutter for changing the lineup to add more speed and pace.

Fact is that the Whole Kings Staff/Players got caught off guard with the Sharks game plan.

It's more about what the Sharks are doing, than what the Kings are not.

 

[HYORI 1963]

Let's see if Sutter keeps the 2nd line in tact and keep Richards on the 3rd & 4th line, now that sharx will have the last line change. If we don't maintain the same lines, we're pretty much done as far as I'm concerned.

 

[etherialone]

DS is on record regarding his bump and move style.

The fact that we changed our game to where we started finishing our checks is what caused the Sharks to have to slow down which is why we ended up being able to catch them.

We can disagree and that is cool but DS since back in his Flame days has been talking about how teams waste time finishing their checks and often cost themselves by trying to make a big hit rather than hit and run. It works when you are a small speed team which we are not.

He even talked about it earlier this season with us during an after game interview.

Agree to see things differently I guess.

 

[damacles1156]

DS is on record regarding his bump and move style.

The fact that we changed our game to where we started finishing our checks is what caused the Sharks to have to slow down which is why we ended up being able to catch them.

We can disagree and that is cool but DS since back in his Flame days has been talking about how teams waste time finishing their checks and often cost themselves by trying to make a big hit rather than hit and run. It works when you are a small speed team which we are not.

He even talked about it earlier this season with us during an after game interview.

Agree to see things differently I guess.

Well the problem with that is, The Kings weren't checking at all(wasn't even Bump and move, more like watch him blow by).

That is why I don't believe it's a coaching issue.

I think players/Coaches were shocked how fast SJ played. It hit them in the mouth and they didn't know what to do.

Also shocked how poor Quick played, it looked like a team that had deer in the headlights.

Sutter took ownership of not having his guys ready to play for game one.

But I don't believe any of the stuff you are trying to accuse him of.

It's more of the players not ready for what SJ came out and did.

You have to give TM and his coaching staff credit for that.

 

[damacles1156]

I see very few people giving the Sharks credit for Smacking the Kings in the mouth.

The Sharks Coaching Staff and Advanced scouts have done a Superb job.

It was the same last year when the Hawks mopped the floor with Kings in Five.

The Hawks made Doughty look like a pylon all series.

Sometimes guys, the Other team is just better.

 

[HYORI 1963]

Oh I agree. I think they've done a fantastic job of getting under Quick's skin and blocking his view. Quick has looked like an ordinary goalie in the series, and I give all the credit to the sharx coaching staff and the players.

Edit: not to mention, perfectly placement of their shots.

 

[damacles1156]

I will chalk it up to fan bias, every team's Fans in 2012, didn't want to admit that the Kings were just better.

The Kings in 2012 were dialed in , and the Coaching staff was on top of everything.

That's not the case to start this series.

The Coach gets too much glory when things are going well, and too much blame when things go wrong...

The correct answer is somewhere in the middle. But this continuing of absolving the players of any fault is utter bull.

They are just as Human as the coaching staff, and are prone to playing bad games.

Also sick of people not giving the other team credit.

 

[damacles1156]

Oh I agree. I think they've done a fantastic job of getting under Quick's skin and blocking his view. Quick has looked like an ordinary goalie in the series, and I give all the credit to the sharx coaching staff and the players.

Edit: not to mention, perfectly placement of their shots.

Exactly, more and more teams are shooting the puck PAST Quick for rebounds off the boards.

Cause Quick is so far out of the crease. Teams are figuring out to use Quick's aggression against him.

Quick will have to adjust next season.

 

[etherialone]

Well the problem with that is, The Kings weren't checking at all(wasn't even Bump and move, more like watch him blow by).

That is why I don't believe it's a coaching issue.

I think players/Coaches were shocked how fast SJ played. It hit them in the mouth and they didn't know what to do.

Also shocked how poor Quick played, it looked like a team that had deer in the headlights.

Sutter took ownership of not having his guys ready to play for game one.

But I don't believe any of the stuff you are trying to accuse him of.

It's more of the players not ready for what SJ came out and did.

You have to give TM and his coaching staff credit for that.

Choose to believe what you want but those are DS' own words, not mine. His philosophy, his coaching his words. The same way that he said "there's no room for anger in hockey" he has said "Hockey is about what you do away from the puck as much as it is with it, we like to hit and keep our feet moving. Let the other guy worry about wasting his time putting you into the seats".

As for Quick he has absolutely had his struggles but you have to go with the girl that brought you to the dance or at least I think so.

I do give TM full credit for instilling a very very solid D system in our team and Stevens credit for keeping it going. Funny thing about TM's D system is that Harpo came up with allot of our D sets and went to TM with them who brought them into our system.

No Harpo, no cup just as much as no TM no cup too.

 

[etherialone]

I will chalk it up to fan bias, every team's Fans in 2012, didn't want to admit that the Kings were just better.

The Kings in 2012 were dialed in , and the Coaching staff was on top of everything.

That's not the case to start this series.

The Coach gets too much glory when things are going well, and too much blame when things go wrong...

The correct answer is somewhere in the middle. But this continuing of absolving the players of any fault is utter bull.

They are just as Human as the coaching staff, and are prone to playing bad games.

Also sick of people not giving the other team credit.

We will see how far the Sharks go in these playoffs before I give them more credit then I have.

Also, I have said in my previous posts that it is about team balance (somewhere in the middle) so we end up agreeing after all at least on that point. I don't absolve our players by the way never have but you have to let the horses run their course to know how they go (a DS quote).

Last night the team played a great team game and when they had the shot they took it. If they do that again we could steal another win.

That is as far as I go with that part of it.

 

[damacles1156]

Choose to believe what you want but those are DS' own words, not mine. His philosophy, his coaching his words. The same way that he said "there's no room for anger in hockey" he has said "Hockey is about what you do away from the puck as much as it is with it, we like to hit and keep our feet moving. Let the other guy worry about wasting his time putting you into the seats".

As for Quick he has absolutely had his struggles but you have to go with the girl that brought you to the dance or at least I think so.

I do give TM full credit for instilling a very very solid D system in our team and Stevens credit for keeping it going. Funny thing about TM's D system is that Harpo came up with allot of our D sets and went to TM with them who brought them into our system.

No Harpo, no cup just as much as no TM no cup too.

I am talking about Todd McLellan, you have to give him credit and his advanced scouts credit, for dismantling the Kings breakouts and exploiting Quick and the Kings slow Defense.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

We will see how far the Sharks go in these playoffs before I give them more credit then I have.

Also, I have said in my previous posts that it is about team balance (somewhere in the middle) so we end up agreeing after all at least on that point. I don't absolve our players by the way never have but you have to let the horses run their course to know how they go (a DS quote).

Last night the team played a great team game and when they had the shot they took it. If they do that again we could steal another win.

That is as far as I go with that part of it.

I can see this happening. We might get another win.

And with DS saying bump hockey, I wouldn't be shocked, we never smoked anyone after 2012. Random but how do you think Mark Morris would do with this kings team?

 

[Reclamation Project]

I can see this happening. We might get another win.

And with DS saying bump hockey, I wouldn't be shocked, we never smoked anyone after 2012. Random but how do you think Mark Morris would do with this kings team?

50 win season.

 

[damacles1156]

Mark Morris has the same approach to the game as Sutter/Hitch ETC.

The Monarchs play the same system as the Kings, as to make the transition simple.

At least that's what I get from being around Monarch games.

Only talked to Morris a couple times, nice guy very good hockey mind.

 

[etherialone]

I am talking about Todd McLellan, you have to give him credit and his advanced scouts credit, for dismantling the Kings breakouts and exploiting Quick and the Kings slow Defense.

I knew, I just disagree and decided to go the Terry Murray route. Made myself laugh a little anyway.

 

[Winger23]

I am talking about Todd McLellan, you have to give him credit and his advanced scouts credit, for dismantling the Kings breakouts and exploiting Quick and the Kings slow Defense.

Sorry but I don't agree. It doesn't take advanced scouts to stop the kings breakout. Send guys heavy on the forecheck, puck is going to the half wall to a stationary forward 90 percent of the time.

 

[Trolfoli]

I am talking about Todd McLellan, you have to give him credit and his advanced scouts credit, for dismantling the Kings breakouts and exploiting Quick and the Kings slow Defense.

Um... that's what coaches are supposed to do.

 

[Trolfoli]

Sorry but I don't agree. It doesn't take advanced scouts to stop the kings breakout. Send guys heavy on the forecheck, puck is going to the half wall to a stationary forward 90 percent of the time.

Wait!!!! Are you the Shark's head coach?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Exactly, more and more teams are shooting the puck PAST Quick for rebounds off the boards.

Cause Quick is so far out of the crease. Teams are figuring out to use Quick's aggression against him.

Quick will have to adjust next season.

Very much agreed, but even Quick usually isn't this overly aggressive, even sloppy. He's overcompensating. In 2012 he was much more reined in. Not deep in his net, that's for sure, but he wasn't above the crease much either.

I see very few people giving the Sharks credit for Smacking the Kings in the mouth.

The Sharks Coaching Staff and Advanced scouts have done a Superb job.

It was the same last year when the Hawks mopped the floor with Kings in Five.

The Hawks made Doughty look like a pylon all series.

Sometimes guys, the Other team is just better.

Disagree, I think we've been very complimentary, almost OVER-complimentary of the Sharks efforts from top to bottom. I think all of us are impressed. But we are on the Kings board so we mostly focus on how we can improve our team or make the tweaks so it's possible to take down goliath.

DS is on record regarding his bump and move style.

The fact that we changed our game to where we started finishing our checks is what caused the Sharks to have to slow down which is why we ended up being able to catch them.

We can disagree and that is cool but DS since back in his Flame days has been talking about how teams waste time finishing their checks and often cost themselves by trying to make a big hit rather than hit and run. It works when you are a small speed team which we are not.

He even talked about it earlier this season with us during an after game interview.

Agree to see things differently I guess.

It's crazy to me but it does make a lot of sense--we were previously talking about how slow and plodding the Kings are so that's one way to pick up the pace. Just seems completely contradictory to the in-your-face style of our roster and how we played in 2012.

Sorry but I don't agree. It doesn't take advanced scouts to stop the kings breakout. Send guys heavy on the forecheck, puck is going to the half wall to a stationary forward 90 percent of the time.

Hockey systems aren't hard to figure out, but if they're executed with precision, it's still hard to stop. I could tell you with 90% certainty what's going on every time we are breaking out of our zone but when you're talking about the cream of the crop of the hockey world going head to head they're going to find holes and seams for passes that you wouldn't believe.