Value of: Pavel Buchnevich

[Mike Liut]

Buch has one more on his contract following this year. I doubt he’ll want to resign during his prime years on a rebuilding team. He’s a great 2-way player and close to a ppg player.

The Blues could use a young dman or a top D prospect. What’s your offer?

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[Djp]

What is a top D prospect to you?

how much are you retaining?

Since his contract is higher than cap this year and next, you aren’t going to get a third team to retain as a pass thru.

generally teams don’t trade recent top 20 drafted prospects in rental deals unless they might be expendable because of who got drafted or acquired since.

 

[Mike Liut]

What is a top D prospect to you?

how much are you retaining?

Since his contract is higher than cap this year and next, you aren’t going to get a third team to retain as a pass thru.

generally teams don’t trade recent top 20 drafted prospects in rental deals unless they might be expendable because of who got drafted or acquired since.

The Blues can retain if needed. Buch has another year on his contract, so he’s not a complete rental. The return will be high. He won’t come cheap.

 

[Djp]

The Blues can retain if needed. Buch has another year on his contract, so he’s not a complete rental. The return will be high. He won’t come cheap.

it’s not going to be as high as people will think in terms of getting a high 1st round prospect back.

look at Pominville to minnesota trade at 2013 deadline As something close.

playoff team 1st + future 2nd+ recent secondary prospect drafted 25-50 + player to balance out salary.

some things could adjust like if the prospect was drafted late teens-early 20s that 2nd could be a 3rd or it adjusts the contracted player you get.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

it’s not going to be as high as people will think in terms of getting a high 1st round prospect back.

look at Pominville to minnesota trade at 2013 deadline As something close.

playoff team 1st + future 2nd+ recent secondary prospect drafted 25-50 + player to balance out salary.

some things could adjust like if the prospect was drafted late teens-early 20s that 2nd could be a 3rd or it adjusts the contracted player you get.

Think Timo type return If he is dealt this season. If teams are only paying rental price no reason to deal him now. We can get that in year and a half.

 

[Mike Liut]

Think Timo type return If he is dealt this season. If teams are only paying rental price no reason to deal him now. We can get that in year and a half.

I thought we’d get a little more return at this TDL having an extra year of term.

 

[ndkjr70]

Think Timo type return If he is dealt this season. If teams are only paying rental price no reason to deal him now. We can get that in year and a half.

Buch is a heck of a hockey player but you're crazy if you think a to-be-UFA 29 year old gets the same return as a to-be-RFA 26 year old, even ignoring the fact that Timo Meier is a superior hockey player.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Buch is a heck of a hockey player but you're crazy if you think a to-be-UFA 29 year old gets the same return as a to-be-RFA 26 year old, even ignoring the fact that Timo Meier is a superior hockey player.

How is Timo a superior hockey player?

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Buch is a heck of a hockey player but you're crazy if you think a to-be-UFA 29 year old gets the same return as a to-be-RFA 26 year old, even ignoring the fact that Timo Meier is a superior hockey player.

First, he isn’t a to be UFA. He is signed for another season, so effectively same control as Timo. Second, Buchy is a superior player to Timo.

 

[Xirik]

I talked about a Buch trade to the Devils this offseason but that ship has sailed for at least this year with Meier and Toffoli on the team.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Forget Meier. There are enough notable true rental+1 trades to argue about, in St. Louis’ favor or not, over the past decade:

Yandle (50%) + 4th + Summers for Duclair + 1st + 2nd + Moore

McDonagh + Miller for Namestnikov + 1st + Howden + Hajek + Conditional 1st (Turned into a 2nd based on not making the Finals)

Granlund for Fiala

…

Yandle was a premier offensive defenseman in his prime. His reputation defensively was okay before Florida, IIRC. Duclair was a very good prospect in 2015; THN had him 17th on their Future Watch list in the Spring (Link). It was a pretty impressive return at the time.

Miller and Namestnikov had similar contractual situations and stat lines. Perhaps they canceled out value-wise. Either way, that trade was neither viewed positively at the time for the Rangers nor in hindsight. A #1 D for a collection of B assets.

It really is a different era in terms of point production. Buchenvich was 28th per among players that played in at least half of the games over the past 2 seasons at 1.05. Granlund was 37th at .86 in the same type of sample. Fiala’s breakout occurred in Minnesota only.

 

[Mike Liut]

Potential trades by fan bases are so difficult. The selling team wants the moon and the buying team wants to give you scraps.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Forget Meier. There are enough notable true rental+1 trades to argue about, in St. Louis’ favor or not, over the past decade:

Yandle (50%) + 4th + Summers for Duclair + 1st + 2nd + Moore

McDonagh + Miller for Namestnikov + 1st + Howden + Hajek + Conditional 1st (Turned into a 2nd based on not making the Finals)

Granlund for Fiala

…

Yandle was a premier offensive defenseman in his prime. His reputation defensively was okay before Florida, IIRC. Duclair was a very good prospect in 2015; THN had him 17th on their Future Watch list in the Spring (Link). It was a pretty impressive return at the time.

Miller and Namestnikov had similar contractual situations and stat lines. Perhaps they canceled out value-wise. Either way, that trade was neither viewed positively at the time for the Rangers nor in hindsight. A #1 D for a collection of B assets.

It really is a different era in terms of point production. Buchenvich was 28th per among players that played in at least half of the games over the past 2 seasons at 1.05. Granlund was 37th at .86 in the same type of sample. Fiala’s breakout occurred in Minnesota only.

I feel like the first two trades you mentioned were different in terms of value even at the time. Yandle got back significantly more value. That McDonagh trade was the worst of Gorton's tenure by far. I believe that the 1st ended up K'Andre Miller. Miller is a very good defenseman and really the only saving grace from that trade. Hajek is not an NHLer, Howden has been better since leaving the Rangers but he's a 4th liner.

 

[Gurglesons]

Buch has one more on his contract following this year. I doubt he’ll want to resign during his prime years on a rebuilding team. He’s a great 2-way player and close to a ppg player.

The Blues could use a young dman or a top D prospect. What’s your offer?

Owen Pickering, Rakell, and a 2nd?

Or, Owen Pickering and a 1st for Buch at 50%. There would have to be some cap going back.

 

[ViD]

Are the Rangers interested in reunion ?

 

[Coffees]

Buch has one more on his contract following this year. I doubt he’ll want to resign during his prime years on a rebuilding team. He’s a great 2-way player and close to a ppg player.

The Blues could use a young dman or a top D prospect. What’s your offer?

Back to Rangers

 

[Mike Liut]

Owen Pickering, Rakell, and a 2nd?

Or, Owen Pickering and a 1st for Buch at 50%. There would have to be some cap going back.

Pickering + 1st would be of interest. Blues can retain salary if needed

 

[Djp]

I feel like the first two trades you mentioned were different in terms of value even at the time. Yandle got back significantly more value. That McDonagh trade was the worst of Gorton's tenure by far. I believe that the 1st ended up K'Andre Miller. Miller is a very good defenseman and really the only saving grace from that trade. Hajek is not an NHLer, Howden has been better since leaving the Rangers but he's a 4th liner.

My posted example of Pominville is similar.

at the time of the trade minnesota was in 1st place thinking they’d be a final 4 team in 27-30. If they didn’t then the pick would be 25 or 26 OA.

with that 2013 1st, then gave up 2014 2nd and two recently drafted prospects from the2010 and 2009 drafts ( late 2nd F Larsson , and mid 3rd G Hackett)

buffaloincluded a high 4th in 2014

Pominville who score as much as Buch does had a similar contract and buffalo retained 20%l.

at time they retained the max they could which was what was owed the rest of that deadline season. New CBA changed that.

Minnesota collapsed after the deadline. Injuries factored in, so their pick fell to 16.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

I feel like the first two trades you mentioned were different in terms of value even at the time. Yandle got back significantly more value. That McDonagh trade was the worst of Gorton's tenure by far. I believe that the 1st ended up K'Andre Miller. Miller is a very good defenseman and really the only saving grace from that trade. Hajek is not an NHLer, Howden has been better since leaving the Rangers but he's a 4th liner.

I was just listing out the trades for contractual status comparables. Without explicitly stating it, I thought I made the point that the returns varied in quality.

Buchnevich could bring back something meaningful, be it a very good prospect or an interesting young NHL player, for St. Louis. His market value could be a handful of quarters too. There’s room for debate.

 

[Mike Liut]

Buch would be a huge addition to a playoff team.

 

[bernmeister]

Are the Rangers interested in reunion ?

thanks no, pass
cap reality will have consequences soon enuf

constant win now moves have stupidly reduced our window and adding more vets is short sighted.

He will want/deserve $$$ and term.
No 6-7-8 yr deal worth it when $$ needed for long ter KAM and others

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Owen Pickering, Rakell, and a 2nd?

Or, Owen Pickering and a 1st for Buch at 50%. There would have to be some cap going back.

This is kind of package I would think would need.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Owen Pickering, Rakell, and a 2nd?

Or, Owen Pickering and a 1st for Buch at 50%. There would have to be some cap going back.

Blues can easily retain so the 2nd offer is at the very least, not an insulting offer and in reality, likely the kind of deal the Blues would get if they were to trade Buchy.

I’d assume the Blues’ preference will be to re-sign Buchy but the logic the OP presents that it wouldn’t be the least bit surprising if he doesn’t want to re-sign with a rebuilding Blues team absolutely makes sense.

 

[BlueDream]

What is a top D prospect to you?

how much are you retaining?

Since his contract is higher than cap this year and next, you aren’t going to get a third team to retain as a pass thru.

generally teams don’t trade recent top 20 drafted prospects in rental deals unless they might be expendable because of who got drafted or acquired since.

This isn’t a rental… lol.

My posted example of Pominville is similar.

at the time of the trade minnesota was in 1st place thinking they’d be a final 4 team in 27-30. If they didn’t then the pick would be 25 or 26 OA.

with that 2013 1st, then gave up 2014 2nd and two recently drafted prospects from the2010 and 2009 drafts ( late 2nd F Larsson , and mid 3rd G Hackett)

buffaloincluded a high 4th in 2014

Pominville who score as much as Buch does had a similar contract and buffalo retained 20%l.

at time they retained the max they could which was what was owed the rest of that deadline season. New CBA changed that.

Minnesota collapsed after the deadline. Injuries factored in, so their pick fell to 16.

Maybe try to find a better comparison than a trade from 10 years ago.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

Are the Rangers interested in reunion ?

We have a second to offer, but no Sammy Blais