Patriots/NFL Patriots hiring Mike Vrabel, a franchise Hall of Famer, as head coach

[Oates2Neely]

I mean the Chiefs will just win again anyways............

Im looking forward to the draft, free agency and building of vrabels staff

I think the Chiefs get bounced this year

 

[Troublesome 85]

I think the Chiefs get bounced this year

By the Bills maybe but bleh

 

[Terrier]

Hail to the Commandos!

 

[N o o d l e s]

Seems pretty obvious that the Lions weren’t going to get over the line this year with all the injuries. I also wonder if there’s any consideration to making a big move at QB. They’ve drafted so well they have some leeway to move some high value picks. Goff just isn’t it.

I’m for sure rooting for Washington now. Super fun to watch. Also I don’t get the comparisons of us to them. All that’s similar is where we drafted. They had a lot of pieces already in place that had the potential to be very good but no qb, unstable coaching situation and the worst owner in pro sports.

 

[McGarnagle]

Can't have shit in Detroit

 

[RoccoF14]

Not just saying this because of today but I am not sure i get the Aaron Glenn hype

He was putting together a patchwork defense with a bunch of walk ons and ran into a STUD QB who played a flawless game. And Detroit still forced more punts than Washington did…

Johnson doesn’t have that excuse. Yeah, they scored points, but Washington’s defense isn’t very good and they made it easy on them with the turnovers.

Can't have shit in Detroit

They’re used to it…

 

[RoccoF14]

Seems pretty obvious that the Lions weren’t going to get over the line this year with all the injuries. I also wonder if there’s any consideration to making a big move at QB. They’ve drafted so well they have some leeway to move some high value picks. Goff just isn’t it.

I’m for sure rooting for Washington now. Super fun to watch. Also I don’t get the comparisons of us to them. All that’s similar is where we drafted. They had a lot of pieces already in place that had the potential to be very good but no qb, unstable coaching situation and the worst owner in pro sports.

Washington didn’t have the pieces in place. Yeah, they drafted 1 spot earlier, but they were a 4 win team too. Besides their QB, their 2nd rd pick also had a huge impact on tonight’s game as well.

Unlike NE, they hired a competent HC and an aggressive OC. They also made some good moves in free agency. Biadasz, Ertz, Ekeler, Frankie Luvu and Bobby Wagner all had a huge impact this season….so yeah. NE could learn a thing or two from what Washington did this year and they’re absolutely the measuring stick NE ownership/front office should be measured against.

They also have a TON of cap space this summer, and are going to be looking at a lot of the same guys NE will be. Who do you think Tee Higgins would rather play for?

 

[RoccoF14]

I think the Chiefs get bounced this year

Agree 100%. I think the real AFC Championship game is tomorrow night.

Now, IF KC ends up winning a 3rd Super Bowl in a row, there’s no doubt that the KC dynasty will be one of the all time greats. Like it or not.

 

[Oates2Neely]

Washington didn’t have the pieces in place. Yeah, they drafted 1 spot earlier, but they were a 4 win team too. Besides their QB, their 2nd rd pick also had a huge impact on tonight’s game as well.

Unlike NE, they hired a competent HC and an aggressive OC. They also made some good moves in free agency. Biadasz, Ertz, Ekeler, Frankie Luvu and Bobby Wagner all had a huge impact this season….so yeah. NE could learn a thing or two from what Washington did this year and they’re absolutely the measuring stick NE ownership/front office should be measured against.

They also have a TON of cap space this summer, and are going to be looking at a lot of the same guys NE will be. Who do you think Tee Higgins would rather play for?

Less than 10% chance Tee Higgins is in NE next season

 

[Mad-Marcus]

Agree 100%. I think the real AFC Championship game is tomorrow night.

Now, IF KC ends up winning a 3rd Super Bowl in a row, there’s no doubt that the KC dynasty will be one of the all time greats. Like it or not.

Agreed, but as great a Mahomes is in his special moments, their D has been a bigger part of their success in the last 2 seasons. Very similar to 2001, 2004-5 NEP.
They'll need to be relevant 9-10 years after their next SB win to dethrone the Pats run under the same coach/QB pairing. Mahomes takes much more of a beating than Brady did due to his style of play, will he hold up?
That diving, sack avoiding, TD to Kelce was f'n special though.

 

[ON3M4N]

He doesn’t give a shit which QB it is. As long as it gets ratings.
The fix is in. I used to like the sport that turned into wrestling

Sure he cares. He doesn't want Brady to be considered the GOAT in the grand scheme of things. Kind of interesting that the big 3 of KC are a QB, TE & HC....... like New England was.

How many times has the NFL let people know Mahomes & Kelce have more post season TD's than Brady & Gronk? A lot.

Goodell has an opportunity to get an accolade for Mahomes & KC that was never done by NE or anyone in the NFL, and that's 3 straight titles.

KC is Goodell's petty FU to Brady, Bill & the Patriots. Goodell tried for so many years to screw the Patriots over, but in the end the Patriots were the ones laughing because he couldn't stop them. Goodell doesn't need to stop them now. He just needs to create a dynasty that will do what they did and then some.

 

[Johnnyduke]

Also I don’t get the comparisons of us to them. All that’s similar is where we drafted. They had a lot of pieces already in place that had the potential to be very good but no qb, unstable coaching situation and the worst owner in pro sports.

Are you sure we're all that different then?

I'm not sure I agree the Commanders had a lot of pieces. They drafted Sainristil in this last draft. They did have Terry McLaurin already on the team but beyond that I am not sure it was a star studded team just needing a QB.

You know what they did though? They did a proper search and brought in guy from SF to run show. And Dan Quinn was smart enough to surround himself with Kingsbury to work with Daniels. I guess we are left hoping that Vrabel can be Dan Quinn and surround Drake Maye with the necessary coaching to move forward.

I also can't help but wonder what the trajectory might look like if we ended up with Daniels instead of Maye. Because Daniels might be elevating his team to a level Maye can't. That's not a knock on Drake Maye. Just the reality that Daniels rightfully went ahead of him in the draft and looks like a complete stud.

 

[Johnnyduke]

He was putting together a patchwork defense with a bunch of walk ons and ran into a STUD QB who played a flawless game. And Detroit still forced more punts than Washington did…

Johnson doesn’t have that excuse. Yeah, they scored points, but Washington’s defense isn’t very good and they made it easy on them with the turnovers.

Fair. I am also of the mindset that for as good as Ben Johnson is he will always be "limited" by Goff in the end. So to me the Lions will eventually be in a tricky spot. Continue to ride it out with Goff or do they look to try and upgrade somehow. We're already down to:

Mahomes
Allen/Jackson
Daniels

Hurts/Stafford probably don't belong in same category though. If I was picking just based on QB I would pick Stafford today.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

So Kraft hiring Mayo as HC had nothing to do with avoiding paying him his buyout clause? So the patriots player and family facilities being rated amongst the worst 3 in the NFL had nothing to do with the Krafts? The fact that the Patriots have been amongst the lowest spending teams overall in the league has nothing to do with the Krafts.. it was all Belichick? News to me, thanks for enlightening me.

I think Kraft hired Mayo because he thought he would be a great coach. He was wrong, it happens. If he was as cheap as you are saying he is, wouldn’t he have just brought him back this year. Firing him and bringing in Vrabel and a new staff is going to cost him a lot of money.

You seem to be mixing three completely different issues into one big pot here. I think that Bill bringing back Patricia and Judge had everything to do with Bill and nothing to do with Kraft.

The facilities thing is 100% on Kraft and whomever is responsible for that (Jonathan?). You have to take care of the people that make you all that money. Also, I believe that issue is being remedied with new facilities?

The Patriots have been among the lower cash spending teams, not cap spending, which are two different things. I don’t know for sure, but I suspect that it’s because spreading out your expenses and not paying a lot of cash up front is a very prudent way of running a business. It’s probably how Kraft operates his other businesses, but he should change the model for his NFL team as it’s become a necessity.

Unlike yourself (apparently), I’m not looking to blame any one party for the state of the Patriots. The Krafts played a role, and Belichick played a role as well. Way too easy to just say, the Pats suck because Kraft is cheap or because Bill was an egomaniac who lost his fastball. Lots of things played into it.

As a fan, I’m more concerned about moving forward and fixing it then I am about blaming the people (along with Brady and others) that did bring us 6 SB’s over 20 years.

 

[DKH]

Thankfully we got a QB who isn’t a whiney soft bitch QB with a F’d up family

give me Drake any day over this candy ass

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Are you sure we're all that different then?

I'm not sure I agree the Commanders had a lot of pieces. They drafted Sainristil in this last draft. They did have Terry McLaurin already on the team but beyond that I am not sure it was a star studded team just needing a QB.

You know what they did though? They did a proper search and brought in guy from SF to run show. And Dan Quinn was smart enough to surround himself with Kingsbury to work with Daniels. I guess we are left hoping that Vrabel can be Dan Quinn and surround Drake Maye with the necessary coaching to move forward.

I also can't help but wonder what the trajectory might look like if we ended up with Daniels instead of Maye. Because Daniels might be elevating his team to a level Maye can't. That's not a knock on Drake Maye. Just the reality that Daniels rightfully went ahead of him in the draft and looks like a complete stud.

Drake Maye is 22 and started 26 games in college. Daniels is 24 and started 55 games in college. I think most analysts figured that Daniels was going to be better out of the gate, given the difference in experience.

Daniels had a great rookie year and I think he will be a really good QB going forward, but I’m not sure Maye isn’t just as good/better in the long run. If you compare Daniel’s numbers to Williams’ this year, they aren’t all that different. I was actually pretty surprised when I looked at them.

Daniels: 69%, 3568 yards, 25 TD’s/9 INT’s
Williams: 62.5%, 3541 yards, 20 TD’s/6 INT’s

Williams had good weapons, but his OL was horrible. Daniels has a talented and experienced OC in Kingsbury, a good OL (ranked 7th by PFF in December), and a legit WR1. Maye had none of those things.

I was pleasantly surprised at how well Maye performed, given the situation. And I think a lot of people around the league were surprised as well. Hopefully, we can revisit this in a year or two and see where everything stands.

 

[Oates2Neely]

I think Kraft hired Mayo because he thought he would be a great coach. He was wrong, it happens. If he was as cheap as you are saying he is, wouldn’t he have just brought him back this year. Firing him and bringing in Vrabel and a new staff is going to cost him a lot of money.

You seem to be mixing three completely different issues into one big pot here. I think that Bill bringing back Patricia and Judge had everything to do with Bill and nothing to do with Kraft.

The facilities thing is 100% on Kraft and whomever is responsible for that (Jonathan?). You have to take care of the people that make you all that money. Also, I believe that issue is being remedied with new facilities?

The Patriots have been among the lower cash spending teams, not cap spending, which are two different things. I don’t know for sure, but I suspect that it’s because spreading out your expenses and not paying a lot of cash up front is a very prudent way of running a business. It’s probably how Kraft operates his other businesses, but he should change the model for his NFL team as it’s become a necessity.

Unlike yourself (apparently), I’m not looking to blame any one party for the state of the Patriots. The Krafts played a role, and Belichick played a role as well. Way too easy to just say, the Pats suck because Kraft is cheap or because Bill was an egomaniac who lost his fastball. Lots of things played into it.

As a fan, I’m more concerned about moving forward and fixing it then I am about blaming the people (along with Brady and others) that did bring us 6 SB’s over 20 years.

First of all my comment wasn’t about the team sucking. It was in regard to the Krafts being some of the cheapest owners in the NFL. You seem to put the issues with spending all on Bill. Is it not the Krafts who own the team & should oversee operations in some manner? The Krafts have owned the team for almost 3 decades now, not sure why you discuss them as if they’re first time owners.

When does an NFL hire a guy for head coach who has never even been a coordinator? They put that clause in Mayo’s contract years ago, probably thinking he would become a good coach some day. They weren’t expecting Bill to fall hard on his face once Brady moved on. So once the decision was made to fire Bill, the Krafts had a choice to make, pay out Mayo his clause cash because he isn’t quite ready yet, or hire him because he is ready to be an NFL coach (despite not having any coordinator experience). They could’ve hired Vrabel last season. Now you can tell me Kraft over estimated Mayo’s ability last winter when they named him head coach, but I’m not buying it. IMO it had something to do with avoiding paying out his HC clause.

They ARE finally upgrading the facilities. Did they not know their facilities sucked all these years? Or did they never enter there? Can we blame Bill for this too somehow? And why did they decide to upgrade NOW? Because they were publicly shamed into it when that report was released. Why did they hire Vrabel now and not last season, when it was clear he had more experience and a better track record than Mayo? Because Mayo stunk so bad the Krafts were forced into making this move. Chants of “fire Mayo” reverberating throughout a half empty Gillette stadium. You see, the Krafts REACT. Only when they are publicly tarred do they reach into the cash box. When will they upgrade their analytics staff? I suspect once a report rating the leagues best/ worst analytics staffs is made public.

I’m not a Bill apologist. He f****d this team hard. He fell flat on his face without Brady. His huge ego did him in. And took this team down with him. And now he isn’t offered an NFL job in 2 years. He’s getting everything he deserves. But to let the Krafts off the hook is a crime imo. It’s embarrassing that the team to beat the past 2 decades is so far behind other teams in so many areas. They rank in the bottom 5 in so many categories. However they rank near the top in profits.

 

[RoccoF14]

KC is Goodell's petty FU to Brady, Bill & the Patriots. Goodell tried for so many years to screw the Patriots over, but in the end the Patriots were the ones laughing because he couldn't stop them. Goodell doesn't need to stop them now. He just needs to create a dynasty that will do what they did and then some.

.....and the Pats were the league's FU to Dallas, who was the league's FU to San Francisco, who was the league's FU to Pittsburgh, who was the league's FU to Green Bay.....yada yada yada.

I don't buy it.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

First of all my comment wasn’t about the team sucking. It was in regard to the Krafts being some of the cheapest owners in the NFL. You seem to put the issues with spending all on Bill. Is it not the Krafts who own the team & should oversee operations in some manner? The Krafts have owned the team for almost 3 decades now, not sure why you discuss them as if they’re first time owners.

When does an NFL hire a guy for head coach who has never even been a coordinator? They put that clause in Mayo’s contract years ago, probably thinking he would become a good coach some day. They weren’t expecting Bill to fall hard on his face once Brady moved on. So once the decision was made to fire Bill, the Krafts had a choice to make, pay out Mayo his clause cash because he isn’t quite ready yet, or hire him because he is ready to be an NFL coach (despite not having any coordinator experience). They could’ve hired Vrabel last season. Now you can tell me Kraft over estimated Mayo’s ability last winter when they named him head coach, but I’m not buying it. IMO it had something to do with avoiding paying out his HC clause.

They ARE finally upgrading the facilities. Did they not know their facilities sucked all these years? Or did they never enter there? Can we blame Bill for this too somehow? And why did they decide to upgrade NOW? Because they were publicly shamed into it when that report was released. Why did they hire Vrabel now and not last season, when it was clear he had more experience and a better track record than Mayo? Because Mayo stunk so bad the Krafts were forced into making this move. Chants of “fire Mayo” reverberating throughout a half empty Gillette stadium. You see, the Krafts REACT. Only when they are publicly tarred do they reach into the cash box. When will they upgrade their analytics staff? I suspect once a report rating the leagues best/ worst analytics staffs is made public.

I’m not a Bill apologist. He f****d this team hard. He fell flat on his face without Brady. His huge ego did him in. And took this team down with him. And now he isn’t offered an NFL job in 2 years. He’s getting everything he deserves. But to let the Krafts off the hook is a crime imo. It’s embarrassing that the team to beat the past 2 decades is so far behind other teams in so many areas. They rank in the bottom 5 in so many categories. However they rank near the top in profits.

So, we agree on most of the stuff.

And no, I don’t put all of the lack of spending on Bill, but I do put some of it on him. He’s always been a guy more willing to spend $20m on 5 decent players than one great one.

You just have missed the part where I said Kraft needs to change his NFL business model for the Pats? I just think that people confuse cash spending with overall spending. The Patriots spend to the cap most years, but they don’t spend a lot of cash. That needs to change and they also need to invest more money in scouting, coaching, development and other things that don’t show up on the cap.

 

[Oates2Neely]

So, we agree on most of the stuff.

And no, I don’t put all of the lack of spending on Bill, but I do put some of it on him. He’s always been a guy more willing to spend $20m on 5 decent players than one great one.

You just have missed the part where I said Kraft needs to change his NFL business model for the Pats? I just think that people confuse cash spending with overall spending. The Patriots spend to the cap most years, but they don’t spend a lot of cash. That needs to change and they also need to invest more money in scouting, coaching, development and other things that don’t show up on the cap.

Fair. Of course he has to change his business model for the team. My question is why hasn’t he already? Okay I get you had success during the Brady years, “if it isn’t broken don’t fix it”. I’ll give him that. But Brady left the Patriots 5 years ago. The pats have stunk for 5 seasons now. One only has to look around at the best teams in the league and spot the differences. Cash spending on the team, facilities, sports medicine etc etc. IIRC it was reported the Eagles staff is more than double the Patriots. Almost 20 years of great football here in New England, not once did he think to reward the team and upgrade facilities??? That’s just odd. I can’t wrap my head around that.

 

[GatorMike]

Fair. Of course he has to change his business model for the team. My question is why hasn’t he already? Okay I get you had success during the Brady years, “if it isn’t broken don’t fix it”. I’ll give him that. But Brady left the Patriots 5 years ago. The pats have stunk for 5 seasons now. One only has to look around at the best teams in the league and spot the differences. Cash spending on the team, facilities, sports medicine etc etc. IIRC it was reported the Eagles staff is more than double the Patriots. Almost 20 years of great football here in New England, not once did he think to reward the team and upgrade facilities??? That’s just odd. I can’t wrap my head around that.

For most of those past 20 years, football ops were controlled by one guy.

My gut says the Patriots fell behind on facilities, staff, etc because Bill never asked for that stuff.

Heck, the Revolution asked the Krafts for a new practice facility, and to start a reserve team and they got both. Bob Kraft would be willing to do more for the Revs than for the Patriots?

 

[Mad-Marcus]

I've love to see Daniels go all the way as a rookie. He has that IT factor. Even that hit he took in the 1st going out of bounds. He just got up and tapped the defender on the helmet, even as his OL man went to defend him. Classy kid all around, very mature. Quinn is doing a hell of a job, don't see "28-3" happening to this team.

 

[ON3M4N]

.....and the Pats were the league's FU to Dallas, who was the league's FU to San Francisco, who was the league's FU to Pittsburgh, who was the league's FU to Green Bay.....yada yada yada.

I don't buy it.

Nah, the Patriots were held to a different standard by Goodell. They were penalized for things other teams had done without consequence. Goodell suspended Brady for something that was explained by basic science. If Goodell had gotten his way, Manning would have been the guy that people talk about as the goat

 

[Mione134]

Maybe I'll go with Stafford and the Rams due to the fire.

I don't care for the rest of the teams.

I like Allen. Grew up a Pats fan. But I will not stand for a Bills superbowl lol