Player Discussion Patrik Laine

[BB88]

The Habs press release on nhl.com says Laine has a “left knee sprain”. Just to clear some of the confusion about what that means, here is what the Merck Medical Manual says about sprains:





Overview of Sprains and Other Soft-Tissue Injuries

Btw, the press release didn’t say which knee ligament(s) were torn.

In any case, being out for only 2-3 months is great news. It looked far worse than that.

It has to be mcl, the way the knee bent

 

[BenchBrawl]

Fantastic news!!!

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

Honestly, I have no idea how Laine got off so lightly. I'm assuming that the diagnosis was made and confirmed by radiologists with vast experience with knee MRIs. Some of the physicians here like Michou can weigh in.

I was prescient in my comments this summer about the need of the Habs to do more for injury prevention, with a full-time biomechanics expert. Who might look at plays of extreme vulnerability (splitting the defense with AHLers or known thugs), such as ironmen like Suzuki wouldn't do, and wean Habs from these. Who might tweak the boards for a less stiff response. Who would implement training for injury prevention. Who might develop a light, tough prosthetic to better tolerate knee on knees, and so on. Molson certainly can afford one or two.

One more thing that stands out. Develop a human pose estimation based on smart garments and helmets with embedded cameras, designed to withstand shocks, which alert a player of an impending blind side check, such as Greig on Dach. If the player is warned early enough, he rotates away or brings his stick up. If the league tries to outlaw it, then depict it as pro-concussion.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Great news. Sucks about RB though.

If you’d told me the other day that he’d be the one missing the season with Laine only missing three months I would not have believed you.

 

[RandR]

With Seravalli’s tweet about awaiting opinion of surgery or no surgery combined with Gorton mentioning on the podcast they’re awaiting a 2nd opinion leads me to speculate it’s somewhere towards the worst end of a 2nd degree sprain….

Yea I would guess that too. Btw, at least you are careful to say you are speculating. One thing we saw after the injury on Saturday was that quite a few so-called insiders were posting on X about the severity as if they had some breaking news before anyone else when really all of them were speculating based on at best 2nd hand information. Until the Habs got a 2nd opinion from presumably a specialist I would think nobody really knew what the prognosis was.

 

[RandR]

It has to be mcl, the way the knee bent

I would think so too, given also that from the little I know about such things, ACL injuries have a longer recovery time.

I don’t blame the Canadiens for not releasing any information until there was some sort of certainty about the diagnosis; however I don’t see any good reason why they couldn’t be more specific than just calling it a sprain. Why not say “2nd degree MCL sprain”? (assuming that’s what it is) even if they aren’t completely certain about the timeline for return to play.

 

[morhilane]

Habs had 3 different specialists look at Laine's knee. Their first prognostic after the game was that he was going to need surgery and his season was over, so I take it that the 2nd specialist told them he wouldn't need surgery and they went to a 3rd to be sure that was accurate.

 

[HomaridII]

Habs had 3 different specialists look at Laine's knee. Their first prognostic after the game was that he was going to need surgery and his season was over, so I take it that the 2nd specialist told them he wouldn't need surgery and they went to a 3rd to be sure that was accurate.

That's exactly what Hughes said yes.

 

[RandR]

Habs had 3 different specialists look at Laine's knee. Their first prognostic after the game was that he was going to need surgery and his season was over, so I take it that the 2nd specialist told them he wouldn't need surgery and they went to a 3rd to be sure that was accurate.

Interesting.

So it was a best 2 out of 3?

 

[MarkJ]

...

 

[Hacketts]

That's exactly what Hughes said yes.

where did Hughes talk about it?

 

[HomaridII]

where did Hughes talk about it?

Radio Canada interview.

He said that the initial diagnosis was that surgery was needed and he was out for the season but they decided to seek a second opinion which said no surgery and 2 months. They then sought a third opinion which agreed with the second opinion.

 

[Hacketts]

Radio Canada interview.

He said that the initial diagnosis was that surgery was needed and he was out for the season but they decided to seek a second opinion which said no surgery and 2 months. They then sought a third opinion which agreed with the second opinion.

Muchas Gracias

 

[Ozmodiar]

One more thing that stands out. Develop a human pose estimation based on smart garments and helmets with embedded cameras, designed to withstand shocks, which alert a player of an impending blind side check, such as Greig on Dach. If the player is warned early enough, he rotates away or brings his stick up. If the league tries to outlaw it, then depict it as pro-concussion.

Which Ironman movie did you just watch? I hear Bauer is being sold. Hopefully to Stark Enterprises.

 

[salbutera]

Habs had 3 different specialists look at Laine's knee. Their first prognostic after the game was that he was going to need surgery and his season was over, so I take it that the 2nd specialist told them he wouldn't need surgery and they went to a 3rd to be sure that was accurate.

Which again leads me to speculate there wasn’t a clean & complete tear - there are at least a couple of strands not torn so that will take quite a bit of time to hopefully all reconnect with physio, treatment & rest…

 

[calder candidate]

Seem that the initial diagnosis was surgery and 5mounts +, Laine got a second option or selected to not get surgery and just do the rehab. Regardless of injury even a ACL you can just rehab it, it isn’t getting much worst, the issue is more long term and the fact that he might get reinjured more easily…

 

[Habs10Habs]

Wow. I really hope there is no setback.

I remember when Carey was day to day, only to play 5 games and end his career...

Are you trying to make a grown man cry? lol

 

[morhilane]

Which again leads me to speculate there wasn’t a clean & complete tear - there are at least a couple of strands not torn so that will take quite a bit of time to hopefully all reconnect with physio, treatment & rest…

Even a Grade 1 knee sprain is typically 6 weeks to heal (1.5 months). The damage is a lot less expensive than people think.

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

Which Ironman movie did you just watch? I hear Bauer is being sold. Hopefully to Stark Enterprises.

I have expertise in deep learning-based human pose estimation. Here is one of my papers in the area, as it relates to geriatric fall detection. https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/10388590
I am the third author. This was originally my idea, including the choice of deep neural network architecture, though the San Diego State people did the implementation.

This kind of processing can work with simple digital video, even though we've done it with 3D range-sensing in our on-going work.
It could easily be a hockey player, and the software algorithm could easily run on embedded processors in the clothing. In my opinion, it could run fast enough to alert a player of an oncoming impact in under 1/10 of second.

The Habs could actually be innovators in this area, or they can finish at the top of the IR list in the NHL again. My vision of this problem is starkly different from yours, or the team's, which I consider passive, if you'll pardon the pun.

 

[Ozmodiar]

I have expertise in deep learning-based human pose estimation. Here is one of my papers in the area, as it relates to geriatric fall detection. https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/10388590
I am the third author. This was originally my idea, including the choice of deep neural network architecture, though the San Diego State people did the implementation.

This kind of processing can work with simple digital video, even though we've done it with 3D range-sensing in our on-going work.
It could easily be a hockey player, and the software algorithm could easily run on embedded processors in the clothing. In my opinion, it could run fast enough to alert a player of an oncoming impact in under 1/10 of second.

The Habs could actually be innovators in this area, or they can finish at the top of the IR list in the NHL again. My vision of this problem is starkly different from yours, or the team's, which I consider passive, if you'll pardon the pun.

The game happens way too fast for that to be useful. The player would still have to identify the source of the alert and react to it. Too late. Not to mention all the false positives. In Dach’s case, he would have just thought it was the nearest player setting it off. Wouldn’t have helped Laine.

The Habs aren’t in the R&D business. They’d consume the tech if it was useful and available. Let’s be realistic.

 

[junyab]

LMAO oh dear dude

 

[NotProkofievian]

The Habs press release on nhl.com says Laine has a “left knee sprain”. Just to clear some of the confusion about what that means, here is what the Merck Medical Manual says about sprains:





Overview of Sprains and Other Soft-Tissue Injuries

Btw, the press release didn’t say which knee ligament(s) were torn.

In any case, being out for only 2-3 months is great news. It looked far worse than that.

Huge relief. I was expecting the worst, I thought his knee exploded.

 

[jackp0t]

The game happens way too fast for that to be useful. The player would still have to identify the source of the alert and react to it. Too late. Not to mention all the false positives. In Dach’s case, he would have just thought it was the nearest player setting it off. Wouldn’t have helped Laine.

The Habs aren’t in the R&D business. They’d consume the tech if it was useful and available. Let’s be realistic.

Exactly. You have people skating at you every second, the system cant tell if they are going to poke check the puck, hit you or simply guard you one on one. Players are allowed to skate right by you and it doesnt mean they are a threat, but they could very well be. If it keeps buzzing, then its useless because the player wont react when its needed.

 

[BLONG7]

Cautiously optimistic with the news of 2-3 months.......

 

[yianik]

So as opposed to best 2 out of 3 I'd like to think the 1st person said looking at the initial images it looks like surgery and out for the year, but if we let the swelling go down a few days we will get a better idea. Then opinions 2 and 3 . I'm hoping ?