Player Discussion Patrik Laine

[Tabarouette]

we should really just be doing the Vegas thing tbh

2nd pick for Fox
Baron for Marner
pick up Rantanen on waivers

 

[Mrb1p]

Gaining 21 points in two seasons is momentum. Stagnation will inevitably happen over a season or two in a rebuild. Depends on injuries, depends on added youth, depends on progression.

I think it's slightly misguided to use points as we landed in the exact same spot as the year before.

Anyhow, we saw stagnation from 22 to 24. If we finish 27th again I'll say that's a pretty severe case of stagnating and I think we're sadly heading for that.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

It is, you're not wrong. It's also the same as ignoring the prior seasons of accumulation. There has to be middle ground between "ground zero is Hughes" and before.

Ground zero is all the players that left after the cup run. Suzuki and Caufield were already on the team. They aren't part of filling the hole as the hole was created after they arrived.

 

[Mrb1p]

I did answer your question, as did others.

Your question has nothing to do with your claim though. So despite the fact you have refused to stand by your absurd statement, you are also not backing down from it, which is bizarre.

So you believe the Canadiens, in year three of their rebuild, advanced to the Stanley Cup Final.

Clever take. You seem like a very keen observer of the team.

I believe a rebuilding team was dragged kicking and screaming by a top 5 of all time goaltender, yes. I think we all witnessed the same thing.

Carey Price was done in 2019. His contract was probably the worst in the league. He woke up and chose that, Bergevin didn't plan this, lol.

 

[417]

Sigh you're wasting my valuable time.

Once again, take ownership of yourself…I am not forcing you to do anything other than holding you accountable for the things you write.

YOUR time, is in YOUR control.

Florida: Barkov, Ekblad, Tkachuk (Huberdeau)

So…Barkov and Eklbad 2 lottery picks.

Tkachuk was acquired via TRADE.

What about Forling? Their best Dman?

What about Bobrovsky? Lundell? Verhaeghe? Montour?

Looks like the Florida Panthers Stanley Cup was built using all 3 traditional methods of player procurement to me (draft, trades, signings)

Tampa bay: Hedman, Stamkos, Kucherov, Point, Vasilevsky, Sergachev (Drouin)

Only 2 players were acquired via tank, Hedman and Stamkos.

See point above

Colorado: Mack, Mak, Landeskog, Rantanen, Byram, Lekhonen(Barron).

See point above

Pittsburgh: Sid, Geno, Fleury, Letang

Chicago: Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook

La: Kopitar, Doughty, Brown,

All these cores are directly from tanking. It doesn't mean moves can't be done to varying degrees. That's just debating the obvious for....Reasons?

This bolded statement is entirely wrong no matter how many times you repeat it.

The Tampa Bay Lightning didn’t win after tanking for Hedman/Stamkos…they won after they drafted Kucherov in the 2nd round, Vas late in the 1st, Point in the 3rd, Cirelli in the 3rd,

I can literally repeat the same excercise with every team you listed above. You’re choosing to directly tie their success to individual players, despite actual evidence showing they didn’t win until more players were added via trades or signings.

You’re just repeating tired narratives….yawn

 

[Tabarouette]

That's what happens when you privatize and gut public health care. Private health care i a ticking time bomb. Public system was starved intentionally

I respect the detour to blame Legault for Laine's knee

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Plus Corey Perry and Michael Frolik, too, then they traded for Eric Steal, Jon Merrill and Erik Gustafson around the deadline, too.

They also didn't trade Danault and Tatar, who were UFA

 

[TesseractPrice]

I guess it's still too swollen to get a good MRI scan... Here's hoping it's just a few months

 

[Mrb1p]

Ground zero is all the players that left after the cup run. Suzuki and Caufield were already on the team. They aren't part of filling the hole as the hole was created after they arrived.

Then they need to ve moved because a rebuild takes a long time and they're already primed. It's as simple as that.

You choose your rebuilding window by the players you keep, they used their chips on Suzuki, the rebuild is based around him.

Plus Corey Perry and Michael Frolik, too, then they traded for Eric Steal, Jon Merrill and Erik Gustafson around the deadline, too.

What did they spend for this?

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I think it's slightly misguided to use points as we landed in the exact same spot as the year before.

Anyhow, we saw stagnation from 22 to 24. If we finish 27th again I'll say that's a pretty severe case of stagnating and I think we're sadly heading for that.

Stagnation is not permanent either. More talent keeps getting added. More talent progresses. By this time next year, it's Reinbacher and Demidov getting added. Then they progress further. I expect a lot more out of 25-26 and 26-27, than I do the upcoming season.

 

[Mrb1p]

Once again, take ownership of yourself…I am not forcing you to do anything other than holding you accountable for the things you write.

YOUR time, is in YOUR control.

So…Barkov and Eklbad 2 lottery picks.

Tkachuk was acquired via TRADE.

What about Forling? Their best Dman?

What about Bobrovsky? Lundell? Verhaeghe? Montour?

Looks like the Florida Panthers Stanley Cup was built using all 3 traditional methods of player procurement to me (draft, trades, signings)

Only 2 players were acquired via tank, Hedman and Stamkos.

See point above

See point above

This bolded statement is entirely wrong no matter how many times you repeat it.

The Tampa Bay Lightning didn’t win after tanking for Hedman/Stamkos…they won after they drafted Kucherov in the 2nd round, Vas late in the 1st, Point in the 3rd, Cirelli in the 3rd,

I can literally repeat the same excercise with every team you listed above. You’re choosing to directly tie their success to individual players, despite actual evidence showing they didn’t win until more players were added via trades or signings.

You’re just repeating tired narratives….yawn

Again, you're arguing things nobody has ever said in the history of humanity.

Truth be told, I read the first two words of your post and know it's a waste of bandwidth.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It doesn't matter if there was a plan, it only matters if there's accumulation. We can't just reset the clock on our core because Hughes came in 3 years ago.

Patrick Laine was a pickup that happened as a depth move when no other team was interested in getting him. He was likley going to net us 20-30 goals at best. This is not a hard guy to replace if we want to do it.

The fact is, Suzuki, Guhle, Caufield, Etc are all part of said rebuild and they all came in before Hughes was here. Either we consider them a part of the rebuild or we trade then away and start at actual ground zero 3 years ago, or were wasting, what is right now, our best, 2nd and 4th best player.

The fact is that we have one of the best collections of young talent in the league. The influx of talent over the next few years is going to be unlike anything we've seen in 30-40 years and we're well on our way to building a longterm contender.

Losing Laine sucks. I get people are upset and it'll probably hurt us in the standings this year - but we were unlikely to make the playoffs with him. It changes nothing in the grand scheme of things. People need to sit back and have some perspective. Nothing's changed for us longterm.

 

[Habs]

Yet the same people want us to extend vets who are making this team a 1.5 line team.

This is why we can't have nice things

 

[Mrb1p]

Stagnation is not permanent either. More talent keeps getting added. More talent progresses. By this time next year, it's Reinbacher and Demidov getting added. Then they progress further. I expect a lot more out of 25-26 and 26-27, than I do the upcoming season.

In 27 Suzuki will be 28. When are we scheduled to win exactly? 2032?

Faut ca finished un mendné la reconstruction.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Then they need to ve moved because a rebuild takes a long time and they're already primed. It's as simple as that.

You choose your rebuilding window by the players you keep, they used their chips on Suzuki, the rebuild is based around him.


What did they spend for this?

Imo, management will disagree with you. If a player comes in and overtakes Suzuki (maybe Demidov?) in terms of impact, they won't be rewriting their plan. Eventually adding better players is part of the plan. Not everything hinges on Suzuki.

 

[Tabarouette]

Stagnation is not permanent either. More talent keeps getting added. More talent progresses. By this time next year, it's Reinbacher and Demidov getting added. Then they progress further. I expect a lot more out of 25-26 and 26-27, than I do the upcoming season.

to mrb1ps credit a year from now we'll be in a Demidov thread arguing with a few people tho will say tank until Demidov is mature enough

...and we'll be in a Reinbacher thread arguing with the copium people who will say "no it's good actually that he's still in the AHL"

 

[morhilane]

I guess it's still too swollen to get a good MRI scan... Here's hoping it's just a few months

I doubt he be would allowed to walk around in crutches and brace if it was still too swollen.

 

[Yep]

Good afternoon, sorry to disturb your team building conference but is Laine out for the year?

looking for news about Laine in the Laine thread mission; impossible

View attachment 911039

Here's an update :

 

[417]

I consider it tanking when teams strip their roster bare and intentionally ice a roster with the intent of losing.

Florida, Tampa Bay, Chicago certainly never did that. Same with St.Louis. Pittsburgh and Washington did. Not too sure if Colorado and LA did but at first glance it doesn't seem like they did.

Finishing low doesn't mean you tanked. By that standard pretty much every team in the league has tanked at some point. I don't believe that's the case.

The Pens and Caps are really the only teams that intentionally stripped their roster in an effort of drafting a specific player, the rules at the time encouraged that. Today you can’ really do that.

Despite this, the Caps didn’t end up winning until MUCH later and after MANY failures in the playoffs with the players they drafted from those “tank years” (Ovi and Backstrom. It wasn’t until McPhee came in and made some key trades, drafted a few key players late (when they were competitive) and signings, that they ended up winning.

They won 14 years after Alexander Ovechkin was drafted…not sure how anyone can legitimately say they won as a result of tanking.

 

[Mrb1p]

Patrick Laine was a pickup that happened as a depth move when no other team was interested in getting him. He was likley going to net us 20-30 goals at best. This is not a hard guy to replace if we want to do it.

The fact is that we have one of the best collections of young talent in the league. The influx of talent over the next few years is going to be unlike anything we've seen in 30-40 years and we're well on our way to building a longterm contender.

Losing Laine sucks. I get people are upset and it'll probably hurt us in the standings this year - but we were unlikely to make the playoffs with him. It changes nothing in the grand scheme of things. People need to sit back and have some perspective. Nothing's changed for us longterm.

We seem to conflate playoffs with progression a lot in this thread.

 

[417]

Again, you're arguing things nobody has ever said in the history of humanity.

Truth be told, I read the first two words of your post and know it's a waste of bandwidth.

You LITERALLY wrote it lol

Just own your take man. I don’t write things I don’t mean and then blame others for responding to them.

Anyway…this isn’t the thread for this discussion.

But happy to continue washing you in this debate like I have in several others whenever you have time lol

 

[overlords]

 

[Maitz]

Isn't it weird that Laine was shown at the practice smiling and everything 2 days after the injury? Maybe it's not a ACL after all, trying to be optimist here but I doubt the Habs would let Laine at the practice like that if he was out for the season.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

to mrb1ps credit a year from now we'll be in a Demidov thread arguing with a few people tho will say tank until Demidov is mature enough

...and we'll be in a Reinbacher thread arguing with the copium people who will say "no it's good actually that he's still in the AHL"

There are always people arguing extreme point of views and other people who latch on to those to pretend the extremist view is rampant, so they can argue over that extremist view, which often is opposite of their own extremist views. What does it prove? Nothing.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

We seem to conflate playoffs with progression a lot in this thread.

Progression isn't a straight line. There are step forwards and backwards along the way.

Personally, I think we're going to go up in the standings with or without Laine this year. I don't see us as a bottom five team. But injuries are a wildcard. If the worst injury happens to the worst player, we'll be screwed over for the year. As much as people want insta-contender, we're still a developing team.

Assuming Laine is out for the year and we struggle to score, I think you might see HUGO make a trade to shore things up. We're not looking to finish low again this year. But that will depend on health and a whole variety of other factors.

Personally, I'm hoping they try Roy in the top six. I expect us to progress regardless. We'll see how it goes.