Player Discussion Patrik Laine

[Estimated_Prophet]

I am definitely partially correct. The list of ultra skilled possession monster wingers that play their off wing is a long one.

It absolutely is not a long list relative to strong side puck handlers but yes, there are plenty of examples over the years

I only stated that you were "entirely incorrect" because you used an absolute in saying that skilled puck handlers should always play on their off hand. This is clearly false as the vast majority play on their strong hand side and the reason for that is the one that I stated. I believe that the players that do conform to your philosophy do so because they are either left or right eye dominant depending on what side they are playing on and just don't see the game as well with their dominant eye on the outside of the play.

 

[themilosh]

Imagine if Laine works out and produces as a top six forward; after the solid calibre of play that Monahan delivered.

The Canadiens would have received four seasons (combined) of top six play from Monahan and Laine, plus two first round draft picks, plus a 2nd round draft pick, plus anything they may get should they move Laine at next year's deadline; or extend him as a piece moving forward, and all for the price of Jordan Harris.

Makes you wonder why Bergevin thought he was smart for saving 9.2$m in cap space.

An organization like the CH should be appalled at the decades long mishandling of their asset value.

 

[the valiant effort]

It absolutely is not a long list relative to strong side puck handlers but yes, there are plenty of examples over the years

I only stated that you were "entirely incorrect" because you used an absolute in saying that skilled puck handlers should always play on their off hand. This is clearly false as the vast majority play on their strong hand side and the reason for that is the one that I stated. I believe that the players that do conform to your philosophy do so because they are either left or right eye dominant depending on what side they are playing on and just don't see the game as well with their dominant eye on the outside of the play.

Your view is narrow-minded, especially as skaters continually improve their edge-work and the game embraces east-west play. The offensive zone advantages to playing off wing for the ultra skilled outweigh all disadvantages and perceived disadvantages.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Your view is narrow-minded, especially as skaters continually improve their edge-work and the game embraces east-west play. The offensive zone advantages to playing off wing for the ultra skilled outweigh all disadvantages and perceived disadvantages.

My view is not narrow minded if it is factually correct.

Narrow minded would be presenting an absolute statement as you did that is in contrast to the evidence. I am the only person in the conversation saying that there are useful applications for both of these tactics when dealing with skilled puck handlers. That is literally the opposite of only presenting one option as you did which would be definitively narrow minded.

To then arbitrarily claim that there are more offensive zone advantages for off wing forwards is simply not true, especially when presented in a manner that is devoid of context and nuance. In the context of the individual, playing off hand is only a shooting advantage, it is a disadvantage in puck possession, passing and board play. It is true that super skilled players can mitigate these disadvantages but there is a reason that most of them choose to play on their strong side as they become possession monsters with their stick naturally shielded from defenders on top of their elite skills where they can expose the puck when they choose to do it and are not forced to their back hand where they are far less dangerous.

Why are we even discussing this in a vacuum that is the offensive zone when strong hand wingers are unarguably far more effective in the other two zones? Are you suggesting that the players should switch back and forth, creating longer routes and mayhem in the neutral zone for defenders looking to find breakout lanes? You can't just arbitrarily dismiss these issues and only focus on the offensive zone.

Power plays are different as there is less puck pressure and more room to expose the puckhandler's stick to defenders. I think too many people see power plays and think , "hey, why don't they always play on their off wing". There is also little to no danger of having to defend against sustained pressure in the d-zone.

I have been through this exercise so many times as a player and a coach that I am not going to be presented with a view point that I have not considered. There is no universal right or wrong answer, it is just that most players including the most skilled puck handlers are more effective on their strong side.

I respect your opinion and hopefully i am not coming off as too harsh, we are in agreement in some aspects but I am not sure that we are going to close the gap on your absolute statement unless you move off of that.

 

[the valiant effort]

My view is not narrow minded if it is factually correct.

Narrow minded would be presenting an absolute statement as you did that is in contrast to the evidence. I am the only person in the conversation saying that there are useful applications for both of these tactics when dealing with skilled puck handlers. That is literally the opposite of only presenting one option as you did which would be definitively narrow minded.

To then arbitrarily claim that there are more offensive zone advantages for off wing forwards is simply not true, especially when presented in a manner that is devoid of context and nuance. In the context of the individual, playing off hand is only a shooting advantage, it is a disadvantage in puck possession, passing and board play. It is true that super skilled players can mitigate these disadvantages but there is a reason that most of them choose to play on their strong side as they become possession monsters with their stick naturally shielded from defenders on top of their elite skills where they can expose the puck when they choose to do it and are not forced to their back hand where they are far less dangerous.

Why are we even discussing this in a vacuum that is the offensive zone when strong hand wingers are unarguably far more effective in the other two zones? Are you suggesting that the players should switch back and forth, creating longer routes and mayhem in the neutral zone for defenders looking to find breakout lanes? You can't just arbitrarily dismiss these issues and only focus on the offensive zone.

Power plays are different as there is less puck pressure and more room to expose the puckhandler's stick to defenders. I think too many people see power plays and think , "hey, why don't they always play on their off wing". There is also little to no danger of having to defend against sustained pressure in the d-zone.

I have been through this exercise so many times as a player and a coach that I am not going to be presented with a view point that I have not considered. There is no universal right or wrong answer, it is just that most players including the most skilled puck handlers are more effective on their strong side.

I respect your opinion and hopefully i am not coming off as too harsh, we are in agreement in some aspects but I am not sure that we are going to close the gap on your absolute statement unless you move off of that.

I am of course willing to back off the absolutism. We see this aspect of the game a little differently but we can still be friends.

 

[HuGort]

Heard any reports how Laine played in camp?

 

[MMANumminen]

My view is not narrow minded if it is factually correct.

Narrow minded would be presenting an absolute statement as you did that is in contrast to the evidence. I am the only person in the conversation saying that there are useful applications for both of these tactics when dealing with skilled puck handlers. That is literally the opposite of only presenting one option as you did which would be definitively narrow minded.

To then arbitrarily claim that there are more offensive zone advantages for off wing forwards is simply not true, especially when presented in a manner that is devoid of context and nuance. In the context of the individual, playing off hand is only a shooting advantage, it is a disadvantage in puck possession, passing and board play. It is true that super skilled players can mitigate these disadvantages but there is a reason that most of them choose to play on their strong side as they become possession monsters with their stick naturally shielded from defenders on top of their elite skills where they can expose the puck when they choose to do it and are not forced to their back hand where they are far less dangerous.

Why are we even discussing this in a vacuum that is the offensive zone when strong hand wingers are unarguably far more effective in the other two zones? Are you suggesting that the players should switch back and forth, creating longer routes and mayhem in the neutral zone for defenders looking to find breakout lanes? You can't just arbitrarily dismiss these issues and only focus on the offensive zone.

Power plays are different as there is less puck pressure and more room to expose the puckhandler's stick to defenders. I think too many people see power plays and think , "hey, why don't they always play on their off wing". There is also little to no danger of having to defend against sustained pressure in the d-zone.

I have been through this exercise so many times as a player and a coach that I am not going to be presented with a view point that I have not considered. There is no universal right or wrong answer, it is just that most players including the most skilled puck handlers are more effective on their strong side.

I respect your opinion and hopefully i am not coming off as too harsh, we are in agreement in some aspects but I am not sure that we are going to close the gap on your absolute statement unless you move off of that.

It absolutely is not a long list relative to strong side puck handlers but yes, there are plenty of examples over the years

I only stated that you were "entirely incorrect" because you used an absolute in saying that skilled puck handlers should always play on their off hand. This is clearly false as the vast majority play on their strong hand side and the reason for that is the one that I stated. I believe that the players that do conform to your philosophy do so because they are either left or right eye dominant depending on what side they are playing on and just don't see the game as well with their dominant eye on the outside of the play.

Hopefully Laine plays with both eyes open and the third one should be open too for optimal aerodynamics.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Hopefully Laine plays with both eyes open and the third one should be open too for optimal aerodynamics.

That eye will require a window in his pants......perhaps for back skating

 

[Rapala]

Heard any reports how Laine played in camp?

He was kind of invisible yesterday.

 

[Skip Bayless]

Heard any reports how Laine played in camp?

A lot of rust, but day 2 was seemingly better for his line. I think Dach and Newhook's hustle is going to allow MSL to be patient with them into the season, even if Dach is also rusty af. The top 6 lines are pretty much set up.

 

[Rapala]

A lot of rust, but day 2 was seemingly better for his line. I think Dach and Newhook's hustle is going to allow MSL to be patient with them into the season, even if Dach is also rusty af. The top 6 lines are pretty much set up.

I agree I don't expect his line will be ready to go tomorrow.

 

[vayrynen]

I am definitely partially correct. The list of ultra skilled possession monster wingers that play their off wing is a long one.

Ultra skilled possession monster winger is the exact opposite of Laine. Ok, you didn't say Laine was one, but just had to comment this one as here we have maybe the biggest weakness of Laine. He's a big guy, but is completely unable to protect the puck and just horrible in puck battles. Almost unusable in a cycle game around the boards and in corners. Line mates that have excelled with Laine even strength? Almost none. The second lline will struggle a lot when it has a player whom is like a unicorn. Nobody plays like him and almost no one can adapt to this style/weaknesses. Still he can rack up the points, no question about that.

 

[Naslundforever]

Heard any reports how Laine played in camp?

Rusty, then sat out yesterday. Uphill for sure lol

 

[Michoulicious]

Already needing "treatments"?

Not good.

 

[Jaynki]

Already needing "treatments"?

Not good.

He is practicing with his group at 12.

 

[JianYang]

Not to derail the thread to much more, but as much as Marty is a great players coach, I think he gets overrated a fair bit by our fanbase because of his likability when it comes to the X’s and O’s of the game. He’s definitely learning, but I don’t see him as a coach that shows exceptional potential either. He’s perfect for what we need now which is all that matters but I don’t see him being the answer when it’s actually time to compete. But maybe I’m off on that.

It's hard for any of us to judge, really. We really have to be in the room and just be with the team on a day to day basis to really get a good feel.

I do feel like the odds are against him just based on circumstance. He came into a rock bottom situation, but sooner than later, the expectations will change, and when they do, the leash will be shorter for him simply because he will have been the coach for a few years already, and messages do typically get stale when it's coming from the same mouth.

 

[HuGort]

A lot of rust, but day 2 was seemingly better for his line. I think Dach and Newhook's hustle is going to allow MSL to be patient with them into the season, even if Dach is also rusty af. The top 6 lines are pretty much set up.

Yup, I get look at him Thursday game. I got some money on him with Bets365. High skill but he had a lot of baggage.

 

[Habssince89]

Until he's held out of real games I won't panic.

 

[ReHabs]

Already needing "treatments"?

Not good.

He's barely skated since he went out early in 2024. Pro sports players need a lot of mechanics in perfect order to play contact sports at a high level. It'll take time before he's up to speed -- maybe into October... this is partly why his trade value was as low (or near negative) as it was.

 

[Michoulicious]

He's barely skated since he went out early in 2024. Pro sports players need a lot of mechanics in perfect order to play contact sports at a high level. It'll take time before he's up to speed -- maybe into October... this is partly why his trade value was as low (or near negative) as it was.

Looks like he's already nursing something after a few days of camp. Not good.

 

[ReHabs]

Looks like he's already nursing something after a few days of camp. Not good.

"Not good."

No, it's par for the course. You don't get players with Laine's upside for as cheap as we did without giving him even training camp without consternation and hemming-and-hawing. He's coming off a lot of time off the ice and a surgery to boot.

We want to win playoff series and games that matter. If he's taking treatment days it's so he can get back to speed. He's not retiring, there's nothing physically wrong with him now after clavicle surgery. Caufield had a bum shoulder all last year after surgery, if he needs treatment days to get things going I would say that it's good rather than not good. I feel the same for Laine.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Looks like he's already nursing something after a few days of camp. Not good.

Are you suggesting hes injury prone or faking?

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

I still love the move but I do have concerns about adding another guy with such an intense injury history. Like Dach and Drouin, you just never know if he will be available to play when you need him most. Another RHS too.

Can't complain about the price we paid, a good gamble, just not certain it will work out.

 

[ReHabs]

He hasn't played a full 82 game season in 6 years and when he did scored 50 points while being a defensive liability.

There's a reason you got him for free. There's a lot of other teams out there that had the cap space for him, so why don't you think they would've offered assets for Laine. Because he's a defensive liability whose injury prone, has character issues, mental health problems, and honestly just isn't that talented.

Some of the ppl "expecting" him to score 40 goals are going to be sad. Same with the ppl expecting Dach to play 82 games and score 65+ points. GL Habs fans, stay delusional !

Not many teams had the cap space to take him on without any issues. Not many teams had the position to accommodate him into the roster without any negative repercussions for the duration of his contract (suppressing prospects, issues with TOI). Not many teams had the audacity to bet on his upside -- again, we suffer only a little if it goes sideways and can profit in a variety of ways if it goes well. He's not Auston Matthews but I can tell you we'll feel like a million bucks if he outplays Matthews when it matters for us.

Hoping Dach and Laine do well is perfectly normal, we're fans of the team they play on! Only an insecure lunatic would hope his own team's players do badly. I don't think you're hoping Zibanejad continues his downward trend and finishes with another 20 fewer points this year than last, are you? Don't get bent out of shape fella.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

He hasn't played a full 82 game season in 6 years and when he did scored 50 points while being a defensive liability.

There's a reason you got him for free. There's a lot of other teams out there that had the cap space for him, so why don't you think they would've offered assets for Laine. Because he's a defensive liability whose injury prone, has character issues, mental health problems, and honestly just isn't that talented.

Some of the ppl "expecting" him to score 40 goals are going to be sad. Same with the ppl expecting Dach to play 82 games and score 65+ points. GL Habs fans, stay delusional !

You wrote this:

I also find it funny how Bouchard who was the best defencemen last year gets hate since he plays with Mcdavid but Draisaitl

And you call other people delusional. Bouchard's defense looks good because he plays with and relies on Ekholm to be the pivot on defense. I've watched 3/4 of all Oilers games last season and the entire playoffs. Bouchard wasn't the league's best defenseman and he does benefit greatly from playing with monster performers like McDavid and Drai.

The level of insecurity needed to come to another team's board to call their fans delusional is astounding.

Go back to your board.