Player Discussion Patrik Laine: ruining the tank

[shamrun]

If my knee bent the way laine's did i would be the guy in the coffin:

 

[Adriatic]

Yeah, no way anyone one of us would get an MRI in a day or two.

Just go to private clinic. Get an mri the same day duh!!!

 

[FerrisRox]

Yes I am serious. And I’m not trying to knock management for doing it. Injuries have been a reoccurring theme for 3 years now. And the new 9 million dollar player and our best prospect being hurt before the season even started is a major blow that I’m sure they want to be careful on how they address. Fans are going to start to get impatient.

Boy are you going to be shocked when they simply announce what the injury is and there isn't any "spin" at all.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Time has passed now. Tanking is a very efficient way to build a team and I've advocated for such a move for a long time.

Tanking should take anywhere from 3-5 seasons, max. We've been accumulating since 2016 now. The "tank" started at the very least in 2018, but the team hasn't looked to add anything since 2016. It doesn't matter that Hughes has only been here 3 years, the majority of the core was added before he came in, a new GM doesn't magically reset the clock on a window, unless he believes the window isn't good enough, but then we need to move Suzuki.

There’s a big difference between’tanking’ and rebuilding. Poorly run teams tank. Look at MB, we’d tank and then we’d play whatever kid we drafted right away at 18 and use him on the 3rd line. There was absolutely no plan whatsoever.

 

[Mrb1p]

I consider it tanking when teams strip their roster bare and intentionally ice a roster with the intent of losing.

Florida, Tampa Bay, Chicago certainly never did that. Same with St.Louis. Pittsburgh and Washington did. Not too sure if Colorado and LA did but at first glance it doesn't seem like they did.

Finishing low doesn't mean you tanked. By that standard pretty much every team in the league has tanked at some point. I don't believe that's the case.

That's just semantics and it isn't what I am talking about. Use any other word you want.

But I digress as the worse team of all time is probably the early 2000s Pittsburgh, the Pens had 23 wins before drafting Sid.

 

[Team_Spirit]

Good afternoon, sorry to disturb your team building conference but is Laine out for the year?

looking for news about Laine in the Laine thread mission; impossible

 

[ReHabs]

What's the implication here? That Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle qualifies as many years ahead despite the fact the almost every rebuilding team starts with talent? Or that advocating not going for it now means that talent that hasn't made it yet wont soon?

My comment was a part of a pretty simple and clear discussion delineating the length of the current tank (talent banking). There was no other “hidden” implication on my side.

Mulder's Head Physician Emeritus, he's not the one reading the scans or making the decisions.

Damn, no shit?

 

[Redux91]

Wait. What else have you sold parts of your soup for?

That Sandwich that one time,
2016 Cleveland Cavaliers Chip too,
You don't find it strange they won lol?
That was ME *cough, wipes away blood*

 

[FerrisRox]

What assets did they spend to get to the SCF?

What does that have to do with anything?

Answer the question: You believe the Montréal Canadiens advanced to the Stanley Cup Final in year three of their rebuild? That's what you believe?

 

[Spring in Fialta]

That's just semantics and it isn't what I am talking about. Use any other word you want.

But I digress as the worse team of all time is probably the early 2000s Pittsburgh, the Pens had 23 wins before drafting Sid.

Forever tankers always call it semantics but it's not when you don't want to be lazy while arguing. That stuff matters and it shows what direction teams were taking. Signing Khabibulin and Aucoin to massive deals or keeping all of St.Louis/Lecavalier and trading Richards for starting goalies is worth pointing out.

 

[OnTheRun]

Yes I am serious. And I’m not trying to knock management for doing it. Injuries have been a reoccurring theme for 3 years now. And the new 9 million dollar player and our best prospect being hurt before the season even started is a major blow that I’m sure they want to be careful on how they address. Fans are going to start to get impatient.

They are probably waiting for the input of their consultant, which is based in the US, IIRC.

 

[Mrb1p]

There’s a big difference between’tanking’ and rebuilding. Poorly run teams tank. Look at MB, we’d tank and then we’d play whatever kid we drafted right away at 18 and use him on the 3rd line. There was absolutely no plan whatsoever.

It doesn't matter if there was a plan, it only matters if there's accumulation. We can't just reset the clock on our core because Hughes came in 3 years ago.

The fact is, Suzuki, Guhle, Caufield, Etc are all part of said rebuild and they all came in before Hughes was here. Either we consider them a part of the rebuild or we trade then away and start at actual ground zero 3 years ago, or were wasting, what is right now, our best, 2nd and 4th best player.

 

[Tabarouette]

What does that have to do with anything?

Answer the question: You believe the Montréal Canadiens advanced to the Stanley Cup Final in year three of their rebuild? That's what you believe?

this is such a weird strawman dude, that's not the point at all lol

 

[Spring in Fialta]

What does that have to do with anything?

Answer the question: You believe the Montréal Canadiens advanced to the Stanley Cup Final in year three of their rebuild? That's what you believe?

Besides they did acquire guys like Anderson and Toffoli the off-season before.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

We can take steps. It doesn't need to be playoffs. It doesn't need to be even fighting for the bubble. It could be fighting for 9th and I'd be more than happy. Steps need to happen.

For sure , I expect some steps to happen this year , or else its on MSL in my opinion

There’s a big difference between’tanking’ and rebuilding. Poorly run teams tank. Look at MB, we’d tank and then we’d play whatever kid we drafted right away at 18 and use him on the 3rd line. There was absolutely no plan whatsoever.

MB never lost a season on purpose , that's the difference. A total incompetent GM who couldn't figure out where his team ever was in the mix of things

 

[JoelWarlord]

What assets did they spend to get to the SCF?

The opportunity cost of not trading Danault, Price, Gallagher, Petry, Weber, Tatar, etc. and nuking the relationship with Kotkaniemi to lose him by offer sheet is just as much of a cost as explicitly trading futures would have been. Just because we didn't spend too much up front on the Allen/Anderson/Edmundson trades doesn't mean there was no asset/roster cost for that playoff run.

I'm not saying we "should" have punted on that playoff run and traded all/most of those guys either, but the reality is we let the entire core age out and retire or walk for nothing for the purpose of the 20-21 mini-window enabled by the covid season and that's directly and tangibly a huge drain on the quality of the current roster.

On the broader topic I don't think we're going to finish bottom five this year even without Laine FWIW. I'd guess somewhere in the 78-82p range with 75-85 as the outside range depending on what happens with the goalies. Slaf is too good now and I think Guhle will take a step forward while the 82 game impact Hutson makes will be significant even if his year 1 point totals don't jump off the page yet. Dach and Dvorak probably won't play 82 games each but they also probably won't play a combined 32 games either, and that makes a difference.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

What assets did they spend to get to the SCF?


He will need to stop pouncing and just start walking sooner rather than later. We need momentum.

We spent a decade together hating on Bergevin for very similar reasons, even if it's unfair to Hughes to compare him to that pile of crap.

Gaining 21 points in two seasons is momentum. Stagnation will inevitably happen over a season or two in a rebuild. Depends on injuries, depends on added youth, depends on progression.

 

[BaBeLuLu]

There was some speculation it might be a collateral ligament injury and should not take much more than six weeks, if the anterior cruciate ligament isn't damaged.
But this was just a doctors guess based on what he saw on tv

 

[Mrb1p]

What does that have to do with anything?

Answer the question: You believe the Montréal Canadiens advanced to the Stanley Cup Final in year three of their rebuild? That's what you believe?

Answer my question and you will have your answer.

The Carey Price trump card can't be ignored.

 

[Habit11]

Good afternoon, sorry to disturb your team building conference but is Laine out for the year?

looking for news about Laine in the Laine thread mission; impossible

View attachment 911039

No news yet. He was on the bench at practice in a brace using crunches. News wil come later today or tomorrow. If he was the rink it gives me a glimmer of hope that maybe it's not season ending, but that's just my hunch.

 

[CharleyHorse]

Don't know how good you are with math, but adding one year doesn't add 2-3 years of wait. Adding one year of tanking adds one year of a growth window to the window that was already there. One year adds one year. Simple, right?

The thing in all of this, is that if you look at other teams that went through rebuilds, a period of stagnation is almost unavoidable because young players get added incremenantly and teams can't avoid the ebbs and flow of development.

You can cry and pull your hair out with vigorous discontent, the team will only output to the degree of development it has reached, and as of now, we still don't have the depth nor talent to compete for a playoff spot. Sure, if everything went perfect, we might reach the playoffs, but that level of luck only comes around every so often and is probably followed by a step back the following season, and as we've seen, it still only takes one central player going down to flip the script. It's a testament to our lack of depth and a foreshadowing of the long road ahead before this team actually gets competitive.

Agreed - even if everything breaks perfectly, they’re still barely a playoff team. Injuries keep derailing any shot of consistency, and the lack of depth is painfully clear when one or two key players go down.

Bottom line: it’s going to take a lot more than wishful thinking to get this roster playoff-ready, even more so now with Laine's injury

 

[Mrb1p]

The opportunity cost of not trading Danault, Price, Gallagher, Petry, Weber, Tatar, etc. and nuking the relationship with Kotkaniemi to lose him by offer sheet is just as much of a cost as explicitly trading futures would have been. Just because we didn't spend too much up front on the Allen/Anderson/Edmundson trades doesn't mean there was no asset/roster cost for that playoff run.

I'm not saying we "should" have punted on that playoff run and traded all/most of those guys either, but the reality is we let the entire core age out and retire or walk for nothing for the purpose of the 20-21 mini-window enabled by the covid season and that's directly and tangibly a huge drain on the quality of the current roster.

It is, you're not wrong. It's also the same as ignoring the prior seasons of accumulation. There has to be middle ground between "ground zero is Hughes" and before.

 

[FerrisRox]

Besides they did acquire guys like Anderson and Toffoli the off-season before.

Plus Corey Perry and Michael Frolik, too, then they traded for Eric Steal, Jon Merrill and Erik Gustafson around the deadline, too.

 

[JianYang]

It’s funny how this is constantly ignored in this raging tanking debate.

But I digress

The acquisitions generally should be supplements to the internally built core. For years, the Rangers were the classic case of what happens when you put the cart before the horse.

 

[FerrisRox]

Answer my question and you will have your answer.

The Carey Price trump card can't be ignored.

I did answer your question, as did others.

Your question has nothing to do with your claim though. So despite the fact you have refused to stand by your absurd statement, you are also not backing down from it, which is bizarre.

So you believe the Canadiens, in year three of their rebuild, advanced to the Stanley Cup Final.

Clever take. You seem like a very keen observer of the team.