Player Discussion Patrik Laine: Part 2 - Healthy Living Edition

[SuzukiSZN]

Caulfield has sucked all the way to 34 goals in 71 games played this year.

He also has 23 5v5 goals and 44 5v5 points.

I’d invite some people to check where that puts him in the league.

 

[VT]

I need you to quantify Laine's shitness 5 on 5 compared to other linemates that have visited the 2nd line. You need to make the argument with evidence.

What you guys are constantly doing is "look guys, he's shit, can't you see?" and the answer is no. Show me because I disagree

Patrik should be compared to other players, not Newhook, Dach, etc. Right now, without a third line level player, max.

This season is effectively preparation for next season for him.

 

[Marioesque]

I need you to quantify what makes him so damn amazing and how he is being dragged down and why he isnt being put with other players. I can easily do it by saying a pure goal scorer has 4 ES goals in 40+ games, that isn't second line material. He is being out produced by many other players on lower lines with less time. No where this guy goes does he ever become the driving force, he just sits there and everyone else has to do everything for him. Cmon show me how amazing this guy can be because he sure hasn't done anything with the line mates he's been given and the coach doesn't believe he belongs on the top line.

I've seen him be a driving force in Team Finland, Jets and CBJ. He's been good 5 on 5 with the right people. I don't know how you ignore all that.

He can also be underwhelming in some lines (like the current one).

They tried Slaf in 2nd line, was that good? Did they elevate?

Laine creates chances 5 on 5 but nobody finishes. Laine doesn't get shots out 5 on 5 because his line can't provide it.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

I've seen him be a driving force in Team Finland, Jets and CBJ. He's been good 5 on 5 with the right people. I don't know how you ignore all that.

He can also be underwhelming in some lines (like the current one).

They tried Slaf in 2nd line, was that good? Did they elevate?

Laine creates chances 5 on 5 but nobody finishes. Laine doesn't get shots out 5 on 5 because his line can't provide it.

Oh now who's the one using tiny sample sizes, yeah he was great in the 4 games in 4 nations? Slaf was on the second line for like a week when Dach was still playing poorly at the beginning of the season? Shame Laine is still terrible months later, you don't get a pass for the rest of your life if you have a decent 4 game stint. Laine creating chances! What chances, the guy is invisible 90% of the time and throws a decent pass once every couple weeks.

 

[Ezpz]

He also has 23 5v5 goals and 44 5v5 points.

I’d invite some people to check where that puts him in the league.

He drops 4 rankings in goals only going by ES from 11th to 15th. Moves up to 31st in ES points from 44th in overall points. So that would make him one of the best goalscorers in the league capable of making any top 5 team's first line, while simultaneously producing well enough to be on the top line of a top 10 team.

Also keep in mind the points has dmen in the list too so maybe even higher.

 

[Marioesque]

Oh now who's the one using tiny sample sizes, yeah he was great in the 4 games in 4 nations? Slaf was on the second line for like a week when Dach was still playing poorly at the beginning of the season? Shame Laine is still terrible months later, you don't get a pass for the rest of your life if you have a decent 4 game stint. Laine creating chances! What chances, the guy is invisible 90% of the time and throws a decent pass once every couple weeks.

Laine was an all star in U20 and tournament MVP in men's world championship.

I'm not talking 4 nations

 

[OneSharpMarble]

Laine was an all star in U20 and tournament MVP in men's world championship.

I'm not talking 4 nations

So your examples are either tiny 4 game tournaments or from like 6+ years ago? That's some air tight examples.

 

[Vapaatunnus]

This is why I laughed at 90's to my brother who was habs fan. As fans you just suck. You can gave excellent players but after few games you are selling them to Leafs.

 

[Vapaatunnus]

And yes, I am drunk.

 

[Marioesque]

So your examples are either tiny 4 game tournaments or from like 6+ years ago? That's some air tight examples.

Like I have repeatedly said, entire career

I have acknowledged his weaknesses but you're completely ignoring anything that is evidence against your position

 

[OneSharpMarble]

Like I have repeatedly said, entire career

I have acknowledged his weaknesses but you're completely ignoring anything that is evidence against your position

Yeah we're talking about this season, not years ago. What has he done this season other than look terrible outside of the PP and a handful of games? The second line is bad, and he's a big part of the reason it's bad, he's not a victim of the 2nd line and everyone else isn't holding him down.

 

[Marioesque]

Yeah we're talking about this season, not years ago. What has he done this season other than look terrible outside of the PP and a handful of games? The second line is bad, and he's a big part of the reason it's bad, he's not a victim of the 2nd line and everyone else isn't holding him down.

You're ignoring that the 2nd line was the worst line in the league before Laine.

Who else would make a splash in that position out of the winger options? You think there's a hab that would make Newhook and Roy into a good 2nd?

 

[OneSharpMarble]

You're ignoring that the 2nd line was the worst line in the league before Laine.

Who else would make a splash in that position out of the winger options? You think there's a hab that would make Newhook and Roy into a good 2nd?

And it was one of the worst after Laine, I thought this guy was amazing. How is it such a great player needs everyone else to carry him? Yeah I think they have had more success with players like Gallagher, Anderson and maybe even Heineman on the second line than Laine, but good luck getting him off that line.

 

[Marioesque]

And it was one of the worst after Laine, I thought this guy was amazing. How is it such a great player needs everyone else to carry him? Yeah I think they have had more success with players like Gallagher, Anderson and maybe even Heineman on the second line than Laine, but good luck getting him off that line.

I guess you just have different expectations than I do.

 

[Fatbiggie]

This is why I laughed at 90's to my brother who was habs fan. As fans you just suck. You can gave excellent players but after few games you are selling them to Leafs.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Hes not hurting the team any more than other wingers on the team and hes hurting the team a lot less than Dach did. Laine is around Gally, Newhook, Andy, Armia and Heineman in 5v5 GF% and SF%. Theres literally one line that has good metrics and its the first line.

Slaf and Caufield also need Suzuki to produce, theyve been producing very little without him.

Overall, we need to acquire another top line winger to push down our 3 best wingers in their respective spots, the forward crop is a lot weaker than suggested IMO. Demidov will change that, but ideally I think all of Slaf, Laine and Caufield are more of a 2nd line kind of thing.

They don’t need Suzuki to produce. The problem is that Suzuki is the only decent center we have. It’s him or Dvorak or Newhook… that’s a big problem.

 

[HabzSauce]

He is playing on a bum knee let's not forget

 

[LV426]

This is why I laughed at 90's to my brother who was habs fan. As fans you just suck. You can gave excellent players but after few games you are selling them to Leafs.

 

[the]

He is playing on a bum knee let's not forget

Nobody forgot except for the haters thinking that what we see now is the real Laine.

 

[Scintillating10]

Laine has great shot but needs playmaking center to get him the puck. His mobility looks reduced at times. Really helped the powerplay though

 

[Marioesque]

Laine has great shot but needs playmaking center to get him the puck. His mobility looks reduced at times. Really helped the powerplay though

He needs a player who forces the opponent to focus on them. Laine is at his best when he's outside the focus. Player drawing defense towards them , allows Laine to get open for shots.

If one needs reminding, you get the best out of Laine when you enable the most shots from him. You lean into the things he does better than others isn't that obvious?

Laine-Scheifele-Perreault was kinda ideal, and it was top 3 in NHL at that time.

Two right handed shooters, smart offensive players able to finish plays, feeding off eachother, with a relentless puck hound who dug the pucks out of corners and gave them pucks to work with In offensive zone.

Nobody says Laine is a complete 200ft player.

He is the best shot ever though, so everyone might want to consider that as a positive, even if he wasn't Bergeron defensively.

If you want the best of a shooter, make him shoot as much as possible. Gameplan around it. Understand the asset

MTL is using him correctly on PP. Not ideally (right now) 5 on 5.

The biggest mistake is not having him out 3 on 3 in overtime . The optimal 3 is Hutson-Suzuki-Laine. You can have dvorak in FO but if he wins it, he should tag Laine in.

If he is a cheat code on PP, it's even more obvious 3v3. If you have puck possession, you are pretty much guaranteed a shot at net. The best person to take that shot is the best shooter. Who is that? Laine is great 3 on 3 historically.

That's one way msl is not using Laine correctly. But they're learning.

 

[Mrb1p]

Its weird to me that the biggest Laine haters are the biggest Dach apologists

 

[bud12]

Its weird to me that. The biggest Laine haters are the biggest Dach apologists

Both sucked this year. Both are gone if they don't play better next year

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Both sucked this year. Both are gone if they don't play better next year

Injuries explain both situations. Dach’s career now hangs by a thread. Who knows happens with him? I have him slotted in the bottom six. I hope he can recover but we can’t depend on him for anything going forward. Anything he does is a bonus.

Laine’s been really valuable to us. Great on the PP. He’s been mostly bad at 5 on 5 but I think he deserves a mulligan on that considering his health. Next year he should be healthier and we’ll have Demidov and (hopefully) a new 2nd line center.

Where the debates came was with people trying to argue that Laine was good at 5 on 5 when he clearly wasn’t. He wasn’t playing well, gave up pucks and looked a lot like Dach when he was coming back in October.

Dach’s play had improved significantly from beginning to end and folks were trying to say Laine was just as good - no he wasn’t. He was struggling coming back just as Dach had. The key difference is that he was able to produce - at a ridiculously good pace - on the PP. Then people started to blend the two together even though they aren’t the same thing.

Bottom line is that Laine has been electric on the PP and struggles at 5 on 5. But this is completely understandable considering his injuries. And he’s already improved his play at 5 on 5 since the 4 Nations. He just needs time. Next year we’ll have a better idea of what kind of player he is.

 

[Pat Riot]

Both sucked this year. Both are gone if they don't play better next year

After opting for no surgery and coming back to help the team. With no playmaker on his line, Laine is on pace for 36goals and 30 assists in a 82 games season. Far from sucking if you ask me.