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Player Discussion Patrik Laine: Part 2 - Healthy Living Edition

Mrb1p said:
Thats one thing, you can 200% discredit him for his availability and durability, but when he is on the ice, he has been mostly good to great.
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He's not great at anytime other than his one timers on the PP. Is he great when he's coasting back to his own zone or when he's losing puck battles or just straight up passing right to the opposition? Is he great when he's the slowest guy in the game in the first period? Watching Laine kill plays explains why they don't put him with Suzuki. He'll have the offseason to turn it around but he's a big part of the reason the second line has been this bad.
 
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OneSharpMarble said:
He's not great at anytime other than his one timers on the PP. Is he great when he's coasting back to his own zone or when he's losing puck battles or just straight up passing right to the opposition? Is he great when he's the slowest guy in the game in the first period? Watching Laine kill plays explains why they don't put him with Suzuki. He'll have the offseason to turn it around but he's a big part of the reason the second line has been this bad.
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He hasnt been great this year, hes been good. Over his career he has had great moments, hes coming back from severe injury.

Also Im not sure he kills more plays than any other wingers on this team, its a massive problem with this forward crop, Suzuki is basically the only good puck manager we have.
 
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OneSharpMarble said:
He's not great at anytime other than his one timers on the PP. Is he great when he's coasting back to his own zone or when he's losing puck battles or just straight up passing right to the opposition? Is he great when he's the slowest guy in the game in the first period? Watching Laine kill plays explains why they don't put him with Suzuki. He'll have the offseason to turn it around but he's a big part of the reason the second line has been this bad.
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The second line was worst in the league before he stepped in it. It's been better since.

You also have the problem of making conclusions based on very small sample size and an existing bias.
 
Personally I would wait to extend him, and I assume his agent would say the same. But if you could get him signed to an extension as a really good 2nd liner before Demidov comes and maybe turns him into a 40 goal scorer, do you do it?

You have to think the leg is still bothering him. He didn’t really have much of an offseason before his injury either.
 
Marioesque said:
The second line was worst in the league before he stepped in it. It's been better since.

You also have the problem of making conclusions based on very small sample size and an existing bias.
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Weird how it's still one of the worst in the league, Laine bringing his 4 ES goals has changed something? You also seem to be obsessed with his PP numbers, ignoring his 5v5 play and thinking he is as productive on 5v5 as he is on PP.
 
OneSharpMarble said:
Weird how it's still one of the worst in the league, Laine bringing his 4 ES goals has changed something? You also seem to be obsessed with his PP numbers, ignoring his 5v5 play and thinking he is as productive on 5v5 as he is on PP.
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It's not weird, it was awful for reasons. It's slightly better with Laine.

Slaf was useless in it too. Cole would suck in it.

I don't ignore his non production in the 2nd line, it's obvious nobody would succeed in it much better.

There's not enough talent yet to build two good lines. There's 4 legit top 6 fwds right now. That doesn't fill 2 lines.

Laine can be a monster 5 on 5 when playing with the right people. History shows this.

Currently he's not doing good 5 on 5. He's not in any position to do so either. That's why his PP production is so lopsided, that's when he plays with players who can utilize his shot.
 
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Marioesque said:
It's not weird, it was awful for reasons. It's slightly better with Laine.

Slaf was useless in it too. Cole would suck in it.

I don't ignore his non production in the 2nd line, it's obvious nobody would succeed in it much better.

There's not enough talent yet to build two good lines. There's 4 legit top 6 fwds right now. That doesn't fill 2 lines.

Laine can be a monster 5 on 5 when playing with the right people. History shows this.

Currently he's not doing good 5 on 5. He's not in any position to do so either. That's why his PP production is so lopsided, that's when he plays with players who can utilize his shot.
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When you’re paid $9m per year and you were a 2nd overall pick, you should be the one lifting your subpar linemates. His success shouldn’t be dependent on having the perfect duo with him. There’s nothing in his game that even suggests that he can be a "5v5 monster". Unless by monster you mean his play is so scary that you want to turn the TV off.
 
Marioesque said:
It's not weird, it was awful for reasons. It's slightly better with Laine.

Slaf was useless in it too. Cole would suck in it.

I don't ignore his non production in the 2nd line, it's obvious nobody would succeed in it much better.

There's not enough talent yet to build two good lines. There's 4 legit top 6 fwds right now. That doesn't fill 2 lines.

Laine can be a monster 5 on 5 when playing with the right people. History shows this.

Currently he's not doing good 5 on 5. He's not in any position to do so either. That's why his PP production is so lopsided, that's when he plays with players who can utilize his shot.
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I love how no matter how terrible he is it's always everyone around hims fault. It's just the people around him, he is infallible and beyond doubt. No matter how terrible he plays and despite watching him be a massive liability anywhere other than 15ft from the other teams net (and shooting, heaven forbid he does anything else) it's everyone else who cannot play at his level and utilize his ability. Laine cannot improve anyone with him apparently, wow what a superstar, you only need another superstar (or two LOL) so he doesn't look like dogshit.
 
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OneSharpMarble said:
I love how no matter how terrible he is it's always everyone around hims fault. It's just the people around him, he is infallible and beyond doubt. No matter how terrible he plays and despite watching him be a massive liability anywhere other than 15ft from the other teams net (and shooting, heaven forbid he does anything else) it's everyone else who cannot play at his level and utilize his ability. Laine cannot improve anyone with him apparently, wow what a superstar, you only need another superstar (or two LOL) so he doesn't look like dogshit.
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It's not new to me that good players thrive with good players.

I can't think of any player who would elevate Dach/Newhook/Roy this season. Can you? Which habs player would elevate them and why isn't he playing in it if so?
 
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Marioesque said:
It's not new to me that good players thrive with good players.

I can't think of any player who would elevate Dach/Newhook/Roy this season. Can you? Which habs player would elevate them and why isn't he playing in it if so?
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Oh yeah those guys are just lost causes and total dead weight, so below the golden god Laines gaze and certainly not worth his effort on any play that is even strength. Yeah you take Laine and dump him down to a lower line and put someone who can actually skate and carry the puck and the line improves immediately. Hell the line even looks better with Gallagher than Laine, the only reason Laine hasn't had his numbers reduced to 5mins a game plus PP time is because of who he is.
 
Remember when we also got Monahan as an oft injured young veteran cap dump and no one had to do mental gymnastics or blame everyone else to defend the way he played ?
 
Andrei79 said:
Remember when we also got Monahan as an oft injured young veteran cap dump and no one had to do mental gymnastics or blame everyone else to defend the way he played ?
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There's no other reason to defend the way Laine is playing, other than a few extremely unfair and hyperbolic posters attacking him without good rationale.

We are now at the point where the argument is "if he's any good he needed to make the worst line in NHL into a legit 2nd line, on one good leg".

Nobody's that good, nobody claimed he was.
 
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Marioesque said:
There's no other reason to defend the way Laine is playing, other than a few extremely unfair and hyperbolic posters attacking him without good rationale.

We are now at the point where the argument is "if he's any good he needed to make the worst line in NHL into a legit 2nd line, on one good leg".

Nobody's that good, nobody claimed he was.
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Keep setting up strawmen so you can knock them down and feel good about yourself I guess. You want to put the blame on everyone else but when everything smells like shit maybe you should look at your own shoes.
 
Andrei79 said:
Remember when we also got Monahan as an oft injured young veteran cap dump and no one had to do mental gymnastics or blame everyone else to defend the way he played ?
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Laine play is not ideal in this season. MSL gives him so little time for nothing. Everyone will admit that. Especially if even shooting, his forte, is poor. But it's not fair to compare him to Monahan as the latter didn't have similar problems. Sean can be compared to Laine in Columbus in the 2021/22 and 2022/23 seasons, and even then not 100%.

Except when we say A, we have to say B. In this case, the reasons. And many don't want to admit that.
 
OneSharpMarble said:
Keep setting up strawmen so you can knock them down and feel good about yourself I guess. You want to put the blame on everyone else but when everything smells like shit maybe you should look at your own shoes.
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I need you to quantify Laine's shitness 5 on 5 compared to other linemates that have visited the 2nd line. You need to make the argument with evidence.

What you guys are constantly doing is "look guys, he's shit, can't you see?" and the answer is no. Show me because I disagree
 
Marioesque said:
I need you to quantify Laine's shitness 5 on 5 compared to other linemates that have visited the 2nd line. You need to make the argument with evidence.

What you guys are constantly doing is "look guys, he's shit, can't you see?" and the answer is no. Show me because I disagree
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I need you to quantify what makes him so damn amazing and how he is being dragged down and why he isnt being put with other players. I can easily do it by saying a pure goal scorer has 4 ES goals in 40+ games, that isn't second line material. He is being out produced by many other players on lower lines with less time. No where this guy goes does he ever become the driving force, he just sits there and everyone else has to do everything for him. Cmon show me how amazing this guy can be because he sure hasn't done anything with the line mates he's been given and the coach doesn't believe he belongs on the top line.
 
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