Player Discussion Patrik Laine: Part 2 - Healthy Living Edition

[Sasha Orlov]

Again, I use the entire career as the base of my argument and you're using something completely different.

He isn't currently the best producing 5 on 5 fwd in MTL, if that's what you're asking.

Yeah but “entire career” for you seems to be 3 seasons with the most recent being 2018-19

 

[Mrb1p]

You think representing him correctly is saying he’s the best offensive player on the team lmao it’s very hard to take your opinion seriously


He is a good powerplay goal scorer. He does not contribute in any other facet of the game unfortunately, including 5 on 5 scoring.

If you said he has been on pace for 30+ in limited sample sizes I would agree. Still doesn’t mean he’s actually scoring 30.

Its clear that his knee injury has slowed him down quite a bit. He was a mediocre to good 5v5 scorer before this year. Also, probably slowed by Dach, lets be fair.

Anyway, he can score a PP goal every three games and still be very very useful. Hes something we dont have on the team.

 

[Marioesque]

Yeah but “entire career” for you seems to be 3 seasons with the most recent being 2018-19

No it's the entire career since he played in Liiga. I know he has been injured a lot. I have also seen him play in all of the teams he has played in, and I've seen him excel 5 on 5 in each one, to a much higher degree that he is doing now 5 on 5. I recognize the difference is minutes and surrounding talent, that's just how it works. He was also in lower lines with lesser teammates in those teams at times, and it showed in production....shocking, right?

You don't consider any of that, you're just against the player. You "want him out" even though you have nothing to replace his PP production with, and no better top 6 fwds. You'd be willing to hurt the teams chances just to get him out of it, that's not someone I should attempt to have rational conversations with.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

No it's the entire career since he played in Liiga. I know he has been injured a lot. I have also seen him play in all of the teams he has played in, and I've seen him excel 5 on 5 in each one, to a much higher degree that he is doing now 5 on 5. I recognize the difference is minutes and surrounding talent, that's just how it works. He was also in lower lines with lesser teammates in those teams at times, and it showed in production....shocking, right?

You don't consider any of that, you're just against the player. You "want him out" even though you have nothing to replace his PP production with, and no better top 6 fwds. You'd be willing to hurt the teams chances just to get him out of it, that's not someone I should attempt to have rational conversations with.

Laine’s 5v5 play is actively hurting the team

Also, if he needs to play with an elite centre and elite winger to produce then he isn’t that good

Sucks that we can’t acquire any more top 6 players and therefore have to play Laine there forever, damn. I guess that’s it

 

[Mrb1p]

Laine’s 5v5 play is actively hurting the team

Also, if he needs to play with an elite centre and elite winger to produce then he isn’t that good

Sucks that we can’t acquire any more top 6 players and therefore have to play Laine there forever, damn. I guess that’s it

Hes not hurting the team any more than other wingers on the team and hes hurting the team a lot less than Dach did. Laine is around Gally, Newhook, Andy, Armia and Heineman in 5v5 GF% and SF%. Theres literally one line that has good metrics and its the first line.

Slaf and Caufield also need Suzuki to produce, theyve been producing very little without him.

Overall, we need to acquire another top line winger to push down our 3 best wingers in their respective spots, the forward crop is a lot weaker than suggested IMO. Demidov will change that, but ideally I think all of Slaf, Laine and Caufield are more of a 2nd line kind of thing.

 

[Marioesque]

Laine’s 5v5 play is actively hurting the team

How exactly? And if you want more out of him, put him with better players and you get it.

It is what it is until next season.

Why does he have the most shots blocked per 60 out of all the fwds, if he is actively hurting the team?

Also, if he needs to play with an elite centre and elite winger to produce then he isn’t that good

Nobody said he needs to play with elite anything, but of course it helps any player to play with elite players. Look at Rantanen after leaving Colorado.

Laine was quite useless 5 on 5 when playing with Brian Little. When they got him Paul Stastny at deadline, he became very productive 5 on 5. I wouldn't call Paul Stastny elite, but he was still a good center and great at faceoffs. The line needs someone on the same wavelength , that boosts both that player and Laine. The 3rd fwd in that line doesn't have to be elite, but good at boards would be very helpful

Sucks that we can’t acquire any more top 6 players and therefore have to play Laine there forever, damn. I guess that’s it

Next season. Demidov and Laine should work fantastic.

Laine-Kapanen-Demidov would be cool if they can't land a real 2c in offseason

 

[waitin425]

How exactly? And if you want more out of him, put him with better players and you get it.

It is what it is until next season.

Why does he have the most shots blocked per 60 out of all the fwds, if he is actively hurting the team?


Nobody said he needs to play with elite anything, but of course it helps any player to play with elite players. Look at Rantanen after leaving Colorado.

Laine was quite useless 5 on 5 when playing with Brian Little. When they got him Paul Stastny at deadline, he became very productive 5 on 5. I wouldn't call Paul Stastny elite, but he was still a good center and great at faceoffs. The line needs someone on the same wavelength , that boosts both that player and Laine. The 3rd fwd in that line doesn't have to be elite, but good at boards would be very helpful



Next season. Demidov and Laine should work fantastic.

I agree. I also happen to think that Dach could look very good in between them.

We may end up seeing that if we can't land a 2C.

 

[Marioesque]

I agree. I also happen to think that Dach could look very good in between them.

We may end up seeing that if we can't land a 2C.

If Dach can regain his top form he could work well there. This season wasn't good for reasons, but that doesn't mean he can't get it together later.

 

[Egresch]

I think its hard for a team to have both of them and retain great line chemistry. Movement should be entertained for whichever can make this roster better.

It is not ideal for sure, but I think they can stay both long term. Laine could be 3rd liner, PP specialist mainly because you cannot rely on his availability.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Was shooting at a soccer net last night like the rest of the team.

 

[Vapaatunnus]

Was shooting at a soccer net last night like the rest of the team.

Five shots, one in is 20% which is little bit higher than his normal

 

[VT]

It is not ideal for sure, but I think they can stay both long term. Laine could be 3rd liner, PP specialist mainly because you cannot rely on his availability.

Laine is an excellent 5v5 player. However, many don't take into account his injuries and the impact of mental issues. It's not just movement, skating, but also shot power as he doesn't have ideal support, head-hand coordination. For example, in the 2023/24 season, even though he had a concussion, his speed was 158.18, in the 2022/23 season (with frequent injuries) 162.27 and in the 2021/22 season 163.40 (only one injury, 2 to be exact, but he didn't finish the season after the second one). The current one is 145.95.

And I hope no one accuses him of not knowing how to shoot.

I would take this season as preparation for the upcoming one. Especially if he doesn't get hurt anymore and maybe plays in the WC.

 

[Wats]

His secondary scoring is one of the only reasons they even started the playoff run. Habs need a proper second line, hopefully Demidov and whichever C Habs end up trading for ends up creating it next season. Seeing penguins get destroyed makes me dream of Crosby but will never happen... can't stop me dreaming though:

Slafkovsky-Suzuki-Caufield
Demidov-Crosby-Laine

The amount of 5on5 space he'll get suddenly when he's on a line with threats might make him breakout.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Hes not hurting the team any more than other wingers on the team and hes hurting the team a lot less than Dach did. Laine is around Gally, Newhook, Andy, Armia and Heineman in 5v5 GF% and SF%. Theres literally one line that has good metrics and its the first line.

Slaf and Caufield also need Suzuki to produce, theyve been producing very little without him.

Overall, we need to acquire another top line winger to push down our 3 best wingers in their respective spots, the forward crop is a lot weaker than suggested IMO. Demidov will change that, but ideally I think all of Slaf, Laine and Caufield are more of a 2nd line kind of thing.

Caufield and Slaf don’t need anyone to ‘carry’ them. Suzuki is simply the only center in the team with any kind of offensive ability. If you’re on the ice with any other center you’re going to suck. That’s just the state of things with the team this year.

Caufield was our best and most consistent player before the Four Nations. As for Slafkovsky, when he’s playing well (and he’s been inconsistent this year) he can play with any decent center.

Our problem is that we don’t have a decent center outside of Nick Suzuki. If you’re not playing with him it’s Newhook, Dvorak or Evans… dreadful. Right now the coach has no choice but to double shift Nick and that’s not good. He’s going to burn out down the stretch because we’re relying on him way too much.

 

[Deebs]

Laine is an excellent 5v5 player. However, many don't take into account his injuries and the impact of mental issues. It's not just movement, skating, but also shot power as he doesn't have ideal support, head-hand coordination. For example, in the 2023/24 season, even though he had a concussion, his speed was 158.18, in the 2022/23 season (with frequent injuries) 162.27 and in the 2021/22 season 163.40 (only one injury, 2 to be exact, but he didn't finish the season after the second one). The current one is 145.95.

And I hope no one accuses him of not knowing how to shoot.

I would take this season as preparation for the upcoming one. Especially if he doesn't get hurt anymore and maybe plays in the WC.

He's never been an excellent 5v5 player in his career, he's always been average at best.

If he has a great offseason with proper training and can get back to being average at full strength, he could have a solid 30-30 year in 25-26. Given his availability issues, even that may be a stretch. Here's to hoping

 

[Mrb1p]

Caufield and Slaf don’t need anyone to ‘carry’ them. Suzuki is simply the only center in the team with any kind of offensive ability. If you’re on the ice with any other center you’re going to suck. That’s just the state of things with the team this year.

Caufield was our best and most consistent player before the Four Nations. As for Slafkovsky, when he’s playing well (and he’s been inconsistent this year) he can play with any decent center.

Our problem is that we don’t have a decent center outside of Nick Suzuki. If you’re not playing with him it’s Newhook, Dvorak or Evans… dreadful. Right now the coach has no choice but to double shift Nick and that’s not good. He’s going to burn out down the stretch because we’re relying on him way too much.

Still on that Caufield > Suzuki thing? Yikes.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Still on that Caufield > Suzuki thing? Yikes.

Welcome back bud.

 

[VT]

He's never been an excellent 5v5 player in his career, he's always been average at best.

If he has a great offseason with proper training and can get back to being average at full strength, he could have a solid 30-30 year in 25-26. Given his availability issues, even that may be a stretch. Here's to hoping

See the 2022/23 season in Columbus, how he played despite injuries.

 

[JoelWarlord]

It's nice that he has the extra year left on his contract. I haven't been impressed by his 5v5 play but we also don't really have a 2nd line. I'm excited to see him with Demidov and whoever we add at 2C next year.

 

[Marioesque]

See the 2022/23 season in Columbus, how he played despite injuries.

Yeah and that success was mostly 5 on 5 because the CBJ PP did not use him the same way MTL does. (which is why he has almost the same amount of PP goals this season that he had in his 3 seasons in columbus).

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Laine is an excellent 5v5 player.

God that’s funny

 

[Marioesque]

God that’s funny

She's seen him in CBJ and knows the facts. You don't like the player and are using some hand picked few game timeframe from this season while playing with the players with the worst minuses in the league, to justify the claim that he's dogshit 5 on 5. You don't want Laine to be good 5 on 5, you have your mind made up.

He was one of the best players 5 on 5 in team Finland for 4 nations (after Granlund maybe) not long ago, because he had good players around him. We've seen it in other teams before. You get from him, what position you put him in. If you want him to shine, play him more and with better players. If you want him to disappear, give him 3rd liners and the usage that comes with it.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

She's seen him in CBJ and knows the facts. You don't like the player and are using some hand picked few game timeframe from this season while playing with the players with the worst minuses in the league, to justify the claim that he's dogshit 5 on 5. You don't want Laine to be good 5 on 5, you have your mind made up.

He was one of the best players 5 on 5 in team Finland for 4 nations (after Granlund maybe) not long ago, because he had good players around him. We've seen it in other teams before. You get from him, what position you put him in. If you want him to shine, play him more and with better players. If you want him to disappear, give him 3rd liners and the usage that comes with it.

Bro says I’m going on a “hand picked few games” and then brings up a 3 game stretch at the 4 Nations lmfao

He had 3 pts btw

 

[Marioesque]

Bro says I’m going on a “hand picked few games” and then brings up a 3 game stretch at the 4 Nations lmfao

He had 3 pts btw

yeah. Same amount of points as Matthews, 3 more than Petterson. Point per game.

He looked better in line of Aho and Hintz than those two looked all tournament. He also played well with the FLA guys.

I'm still referring to his entire career. He has always shined with good players and not shined with lesser players. Just like any player, his abilities come to better use when there are people who can create room and also who can finish. Laine is a great shooter and playmaker and when there's another one on the line they can create chaos. Always has been that way.

He sucked with Little, but he was great with Scheifele or Stastny as center. If you play him with players he doesn't gel with, don't expect fireworks.

But if he had played in the 1st line on slafs or coles spot, he'd have more points and so would Suzuki. Laine is a force multiplier. When he plays with lesser centers, there's less force to multiply and results are lame.

You'll see if Demidov comes over. He is excellent at pushing teams back, and that's optimal for playing with Laine because the D has to drop low and it allows more shots from distance by Laine, or allowing Demidov to walk in. Both can make quick short plays, both are a shooting threat. Great talents should play with other great talents to get the best out of them.

 

[ExReHabs]

He just produces. This is what skilled players do.

Hopefully he doesn’t need surgery and time off. Hopefully he’s 100% to start the year next season and can be the difference maker we need.