Player Discussion Patrik Laine: Part 2 - Healthy Living Edition

[OneSharpMarble]

What am I reading? A player who's 30+ goalscorer and near ppg player when healthy should be a 13th forward?

Whats the difference between powerplay and even strength?

 

[Marioesque]

Whats the difference between powerplay and even strength?

Nothing when it comes to the scoreboard. Which is what dictates who wins or loses.

 

[Marioesque]

LMAO yeah that’s it

You disagree?

 

[Sasha Orlov]

You disagree?

Yes, Laine has a legit case for being one of the worst players in the league at 5 on 5

Putting different players on his line won’t suddenly make him be able to skate, pass, play defense, etc

He is a pure powerplay specialist and that’s fine, just not at $8.8M and playing top 6 minutes

 

[ExReHabs]

Whats the difference between powerplay and even strength?

Can you explain, why does it bother you that other people like Laine?

 

[Marioesque]

Yes, Laine has a legit case for being one of the worst players in the league at 5 on 5

Jesus christ hyperbole. He's been one of the best 5 v 5 players in the league too for long periods of time when he has played in better lines. Your sample size is ludicrous.

Putting different players on his line won’t suddenly make him be able to skate, pass, play defense, etc

He actually does all of that currently, he's just on a line that can't produce chances for him 5 on 5. The odd offense they get usually ends up in a chance for Newhook or Roy, Laine being more the set up man. That line doesn't generate much offense, and why would it? It only has one very good offensive player.

Defensively, he blocks more shots than any other habs forward so what exact part in defense isn't he doing?

He is a pure powerplay specialist and that’s fine, just not at $8.8M and playing top 6 minutes

You're completely ignoring history again.

And who tf would you want to see more minutes over Laine right now? I don't care about what he's getting paid (looks to be quite correct for his point pace), it's not out of my pocket.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Jesus christ hyperbole. He's been one of the best 5 v 5 players in the league too for long periods of time when he has played in better lines. Your sample size is ludicrous.

He absolutely has not other than possibly as a rookie and sophomore

He actually does all of that currently, he's just on a line that can't produce chances for him 5 on 5. The odd offense they get usually ends up in a chance for Newhook or Roy, Laine being more the set up man. That line doesn't generate much offense, and why would it? It only has one very good offensive player.

He doesn’t contribute anything 5on5, nor do his line mates but for some reason you don’t blame him at all. Curious.

You're completely ignoring history again.

And who tf would you want to see more minutes over Laine right now? I don't care about what he's getting paid (looks to be quite correct for his point pace), it's not out of my pocket.

What history? He hasn’t even been a 30G scorer in almost a decade lmao

I don’t want anyone on the team earning more minutes, I want the team to improve and for him to not be playing on it

 

[Mrb1p]

Cole is in a much better line 5v5, thus much better stats

Laine had 4 in 18 last year
30 in 55 the year before (actually very good)
34 in 56 (good again)
13 in 46
34 in 68
24 in 82
35 in 82
40 in 73 (very good)

Meanwhile, Coles worse is 24 in 67, which is about 30 points at 5v5 over 82, still 6 better than Laines worse.

Of course the gap isnt massive when Laines at 100%, and I think that Laines size and PP acumen more than make-up the difference IMO, but then Laines durability also comes into play.

Yes, thats true, the 2nd line has been very bad, and Suzuki has carried Cole a lot this year, but I still think its fair to say Cole is a better 5v5 player than Laine.

Not only every metric show that Caufield is faster, their first step and explosiveness aren't even close and this is what make Laine look like a old cow on the ice

Metrics shows Laine is like a quarter of a MPH slower. Thats nothing.

 

[Marioesque]

He absolutely has not other than possibly as a rookie and sophomore

You mean when he played more and with better linemates. Yes. Exactly.

Also in CBJ, he was the best forward in the team for a couple of seasons but he wasn't available enough for it to matter.

He doesn’t contribute anything 5on5, nor do his line mates but for some reason you don’t blame him at all. Curious.

I know what he can and can't do. He adapts to the role he is given, so he can easily play bigger minutes with better talent and be a lot more productive 5 on 5 as well. I have a proper sample size, entire career.

Just in 4 nations he played bigger minutes with better players and produced 5 on 5.

You CAN bury him in a line with struggling players and he'll struggle too. You can put him in with stars and he'll be a star. So which one would you prefer?

What history? He hasn’t even been a 30G scorer in almost a decade lmao

He hasn't even been in the NHL for a decade yet.

Can you tone down the ridiculous hyperbole?

The history of the player. He has been absolute league elite 5 on 5 when he played with Scheifele, with Stastny and some periods of time when he was healthy in CBJ.

That history. You seem to be talking about what....a chosen 10 games from some time this season?

I want the team to improve and for him to not be playing on it

Ah well at least you're honest.

Team will surely improve when you remove the best goal scorer and offensive player out of it. Vast improvement immediately. Absolute genius.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

You mean when he played more and with better linemates. Yes. Exactly.

Also in CBJ, he was the best forward in the team for a couple of seasons but he wasn't available enough for it to matter.

I know what he can and can't do. He adapts to the role he is given, so he can easily play bigger minutes with better talent and be a lot more productive 5 on 5 as well. I have a proper sample size, entire career.

Just in 4 nations he played bigger minutes with better players and produced 5 on 5.

You CAN bury him in a line with struggling players and he'll struggle too. You can put him in with stars and he'll be a star. So which one would you prefer?



He hasn't even been in the NHL for a decade yet.

Can you tone down the ridiculous hyperbole?

The history of the player. He has been absolute league elite 5 on 5 when he played with Scheifele, with Stastny and some periods of time when he was healthy in CBJ.

That history. You seem to be talking about what....a chosen 10 games from some timeframe?


Ah well at least you're honest.

Team will surely improve when you remove the best goal scorer and offensive player out of it. Vast improvement immediately. Absolute genius.

You seem to legitimately be living in an alternate reality

Laine has not been a 30G scorer in 7 years

We all watch him play and he is dreadful at 5v5. Caufield, Suzuki, Hutson are all much, much better offensive players than him.

I would love to hear why we got paid to take him if he’s as good as you claim. All your points are that he played well 7+ years ago lmao

 

[Mrb1p]

He absolutely has not other than possibly as a rookie and sophomore


He doesn’t contribute anything 5on5, nor do his line mates but for some reason you don’t blame him at all. Curious.


What history? He hasn’t even been a 30G scorer in almost a decade lmao

I don’t want anyone on the team earning more minutes, I want the team to improve and for him to not be playing on it

Hes like a 35g scorer over his ~500 games played, its a bit disingenuous to call him anything but a 30g scorer.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Hes like a 35g scorer over his ~500 games played, its a bit disingenuous to call him anything but a 30g scorer.

He last scored 30 goals in 2018-19 so no

 

[OneSharpMarble]

Nothing when it comes to the scoreboard. Which is what dictates who wins or loses.

Excellent, if goals are the only thing that matters he should be on the top line instead of Slaf, he is outpacing him in goals. Then we can finally put all these excuses to rest.

 

[Marioesque]

He last scored 30 goals in 2018-19 so no

 

[Sasha Orlov]

View attachment 1000568

Woah good one

What I said is an objective fact, are you his agent or something? Lmao

 

[Marioesque]

Excellent, if goals are the only thing that matters he should be on the top line instead of Slaf, he is outpacing him in goals. Then we can finally put all these excuses to rest.

True. I don't think they'll do that this season at least. Slaf has been coming to his own lately and is playing better than he was earlier in the season. I think Marty really wants this to be a line and that's why Slaf plays in it even if he's not offensively as good as Laine. Spread the wealth. Slaf is also definitely in habs future plans so he gets preferred here understandably.

That does leave Laine currently without top talent in his line but next season Demidov should be able to jump in and provide that. I was advocating for trying Laine in the 1st when the team was in a slump, and they still could test in games where they are losing, to see if they can get more offense out of CC-Suzuki-Laine when trailing.

And yes, hockey games (who gets the points) are decided by one factor only. Which team has more goals at the end of it. That is the objective. So a PP goal or an even strength goal, it all counts toward that objective.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

True. I don't think they'll do that this season at least. Slaf has been coming to his own lately and is playing better than he was earlier in the season. I think Marty really wants this to be a line and that's why Slaf plays in it even if he's not offensively as good as Laine. Spread the wealth. Slaf is also definitely in habs future plans so he gets preferred here understandably.

That does leave Laine currently without top talent in his line but next season Demidov should be able to jump in and provide that. I was advocating for trying Laine in the 1st when the team was in a slump, and they still could test in games where they are losing, to see if they can get more offense out of CC-Suzuki-Laine when trailing.

Breaking up one of the leagues best lines to add a defensive black hole that can’t skate with 3 ES goals on the year is a great idea if our goal is to compete for the 1st overall pick

 

[Marioesque]

Woah good one

What I said is an objective fact, are you his agent or something? Lmao

Dude pointed out the flaw in your claim and you doubled down with a "these go to eleven" type response

 

[Marioesque]

Breaking up one of the leagues best lines to add a defensive black hole that can’t skate with 3 ES goals on the year is a great idea if our goal is to compete for the 1st overall pick

Ok Nostradumbass. You can tell how it would work.

Defensive black hole would be amazing, puck would spaghettify and disappear to never be seen.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Dude pointed out the flaw in your claim and you doubled down with a "these go to eleven" type response

There is no flaw in my claim that Patrik Laine has not scored 30 goals in an NHL season since 2018-19 actually

Edit: it’s not even a “claim” it’s a fact

 

[Marioesque]

There is no flaw in my claim that Patrik Laine has not scored 30 goals in an NHL season since 2018-19 actually

Well, he said disingenuous so let's call it that to represent him correctly.

I agree that it's disingenuous.

 

[Mrb1p]

He last scored 30 goals in 2018-19 so no

His availability is terrible and thats a case to make but denying his goalscoring isnt too exact, lets be honest.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Well, he said disingenuous so let's call it that to represent him correctly.

I agree that it's disingenuous.

You think representing him correctly is saying he’s the best offensive player on the team lmao it’s very hard to take your opinion seriously

His availability is terrible and thats a case to make but denying his goalscoring isnt too exact, lets be honest.

He is a good powerplay goal scorer. He does not contribute in any other facet of the game unfortunately, including 5 on 5 scoring.

If you said he has been on pace for 30+ in limited sample sizes I would agree. Still doesn’t mean he’s actually scoring 30.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

True. I don't think they'll do that this season at least. Slaf has been coming to his own lately and is playing better than he was earlier in the season. I think Marty really wants this to be a line and that's why Slaf plays in it even if he's not offensively as good as Laine. Spread the wealth. Slaf is also definitely in habs future plans so he gets preferred here understandably.

That does leave Laine currently without top talent in his line but next season Demidov should be able to jump in and provide that. I was advocating for trying Laine in the 1st when the team was in a slump, and they still could test in games where they are losing, to see if they can get more offense out of CC-Suzuki-Laine when trailing.

And yes, hockey games (who gets the points) are decided by one factor only. Which team has more goals at the end of it. That is the objective. So a PP goal or an even strength goal, it all counts toward that objective.

No they won't do it because they don't want Laine killing that line during 5v5 otherwise they would have done it long ago. Unlike some people here the coaching staff understands that being good on the powerplay doesn't mean you are also good at 5v5.

If he's still playing like this next year we are going to punish Demidov by putting him with Laine? Ouch, Laine is on pace for like 6even strength goals in a season

 

[Marioesque]

You think representing him correctly is saying he’s the best offensive player on the team lmao it’s very hard to take your opinion seriously

Again, I use the entire career as the base of my argument and you're using something completely different.

He isn't currently the best producing 5 on 5 fwd in MTL, if that's what you're asking.